A medium's opinion on the case

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Snavely
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A medium's opinion on the case

Post by Snavely »

Hello everyone,

I have been a Lizzie Borden case addict for quite some time now, and I would like to share an experience that my sister and I encountered with a medium.

Among many things that I had asked her about, I knew I would ask her about Lizzie Borden and the murders. I will give you her answer after I explain the situation a bit.

We contacted a psychic named Mary a few weeks ago with a phone appointment interview.

All in all, she was amazing! Not to mention, she was spot on about many things in our lives; things that no stranger would ever be able to guess about anyone.

For instance, she said our deceased grandmother and great-grandmother were there. She gave us their names. One name is not common at all: Eulalie. The other name is Helen.

My sister, who has the same middle name as our great-grandmother, was asked about "the keepsake middle name of Lucille." Our jaws just dropped. Our great-grandmother's middle name is Lucille and so is my sister's.

Our grandma alway said that my sister's middle name was a "keepsake" and that it should be passed on

The psychic knew that our grandmother had an infant son named Tommy who died at 8 months old.

She knew our mother's nickname, which was Beanie.

She asked my sister why her heart aches for a man named Aaron, when she knows that it is not the best relationship for her.

The psychic knew that on our grandparent's tombstone was two deer and one baby deer.

My sister has horrible back and neck problems, and has had surgery, and the psychic asked why our grandmother kept holding her lower back and saying that my sister needs to stand straight.

All in all, she got everything. I mean everything. It was an amazing experience, and definitely one that I will never forget.

To the Lizzie Borden part. I told her that I have been interested in the Lizzie Borden case and that I believe Lizzie committed the murders. I asked if I was right. And she said, "Yes and no."

She went on to explain that both Lizzie and Emma were not right in the head. She said that both of them believed people were out to harm them rather than help them, and they had no use for people. They loved animals instead. They trusted no one, not even their father and especially their stepmother.

I asked why they didn't trust their father. She said because he didn't protect them from the abuse of Abby. Abby was very violent to the girls and Andrew didn't step in because it was "women problems and none of his concern."

Andrew was also a very unloving person. Stern. Cold. Wooden. And he talked badly of their real mother, Sarah. He told the girls that Sarah was crazy and they were turning into loons just like her.

He also made fun of their looks and made fun of the fact that they never had any suitors. They blamed him for never having suitors, because they felt that he was the reason they were unlovable.

They loathed their father and resented him greatly for the way their lives had turned out.

Maggie was offered a large sum of money to kill the parents. She wanted the money, because she was tired of working so hard and living in poverty. She wanted fine things and a better chance at life and she was offered it. She took up the offer.

She said that Emma was the brain behind the murders and that Lizzie and the maid were in on it. She said that Maggie and Lizzie attacked Abby in the bedroom, but that Maggie got scared and Lizzie had to do it herself.

Maggie felt awful that she had backed out of the plan. She was supposed to be the one who did the killing, but she chickened out and Lizzie had to take over.

She told Lizzie that she would defend her and be her alibi if Lizzie finished the job. Since one parent was already killed, they were in a mess. One of them had to do it, and Lizzie wanted the money more than Maggie did.

Maggie still got paid off, but not as much. And she had Lizzie's back the whole time.

Lizzie and Emma had actually planned on killing Andrew and Abby a couple years before and had staged a break-in, which was eventually supposed to lead to them being killed a few days later in another "break-in." But it didn't happen.

She also said that Lizzie DID try to poison them and that the maid faked being sick so that it wouldn't be so obvious.

Also, Emma was not there for a reason. She had a very strange choke hold on Lizzie and told her since she had protected Lizzie all those years and stood up for her all the time, that Lizzie owed her.

Emma planned it and Lizzie and Maggie did the dirty work.

The psychic said that Emma was very insane in a scary way. In a way that she hid behind a quiet exterior. Only Lizzie really knew what Emma was like "for real." And Lizzie, although not an angel, wouldn't have done the things she did if Emma didn't manipulate her the way she did.
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Post by mbhenty »

,,
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Post by Yooper »

That is a very interesting story, lots of detailed information. I expect if a psychic related things about my family only I would know, I might believe in their ability.
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Post by joe »

That's one heckuva theory and one that makes a lot of sense. I'm a little leery about Bridget's involvement, however. On the other hand, why couldn't she be the "hired assassin"?
I wonder how Uncle John fits in? Did the psychic mention him at all?
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Post by Snavely »

The medium also stated that Emma decided it had to be a brutal type of murder, a type that a woman couldn't be implicated in accomplishing.

And I did ask about John Morse. I completely forgot to mention this and it's so important!

She said his motives were money as well, and he was asked to be there by Emma to make sure that the murders were followed through. Emma wanted to come back to a empty home...or else.

He was paid to be there as a type of alibi. And if Maggie couldn't accomplish the murders that day, then he was supposed to take over for a very large sum of money.

Oh my God!!! She also said the murders were supposed to take place AT NIGHT, but that Lizzie and Abby got into a horrible argument. Lizzie, not in a calm state of mind, told Maggie that it was time right then and there. They went upstairs and attacked her in the bedroom, and Maggie was not mentally prepared for everything yet. She tried to do it, but then stopped and then Lizzie had to grab the hatchet and take over.

Then they spent the rest of the time concocting their story, and deciding what to do next.

Uncle Morse was confused to come home and find out that Lizzie was the one who did the murdering. And that it wasn't supposed to be done that morning. Maggie had to tell him that it "just happened by accident," and that she chickened out.

I assume that's why he was wandering around the backyard and claiming that he didn't know the house was full of police. He didn't know what he was supposed to say...

Lizzie and Emma fought for years about the murders. And Lizzie always blamed Emma for her torment of going through the trial. Lizzie was traumatized by the incident, and had horrible nightmares. She carried great guilt, but at the same time she loved the money more than her parents, and the money made her happier than she had ever been.

She blamed Emma for everything, because she felt that Emma got the rewards at the cost of nothing, while Lizzie sacrificed EVERYTHING to get what they got. Emma claimed it was Lizzie's own fault for getting herself in that predicament by jumping the gun and not doing everything as planned.

Emma finally moved out because the hostility and hatred between the two became so overwhelming.

As for the medium, I have absolutely no idea how she knew this to be true. All I know is that I sincerely believe she has a great ability, and that from the bottom of my heart, she is a true medium/psychic in every sense of the word.
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Post by SallyG »

But...but...but...what happened to the murder weapon? And what was it? And what happened to the bloody clothes?
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Post by snokkums »

I think you have hit on something that I have believed for along time: Emma had something to do with the murders. I, too, think she was the brains behind the whole incident

I think that you hit it right too on Andrew. Seems like there was a lot of hatred built up within the two girls. I have always had the feeling that there was some sort of anger over the years at Andrew.
Never heard about Abby being abusive, but it could possibly be there, especially if Andrew was abusive. I think Andrew was abusive.
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Post by joe »

Was Abby abusive? Maybe not, but she certainly was not well-liked by the Borden girls. I just bet she was a mentally abusive woman, if not insane, in spite of what was said by the Borden girls and, especially, Bridget. Who in their right mind would ask the maid to clean windows on a day when the windows weren't normally cleaned? The Borden girls had reason to hate Abby for the house sale incident, Andrew's feelings, if any, toward Abby, not to mention that Abby was Emma's "wicked step-mother". I would think that this "hatred" on Emma's part would have easily been transferred on to Lizzie.
Could Bridget's involvement be the reason her inquest testimony has been "lost"?
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Post by bob_m_ryan »

Her Inquest testimony is probably locked up with the Robinson papers!
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Post by SallyG »

joe @ Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:50 pm wrote:Was Abby abusive? Maybe not, but she certainly was not well-liked by the Borden girls. I just bet she was a mentally abusive woman, if not insane, in spite of what was said by the Borden girls and, especially, Bridget. Who in their right mind would ask the maid to clean windows on a day when the windows weren't normally cleaned? The Borden girls had reason to hate Abby for the house sale incident, Andrew's feelings, if any, toward Abby, not to mention that Abby was Emma's "wicked step-mother". I would think that this "hatred" on Emma's part would have easily been transferred on to Lizzie.
Could Bridget's involvement be the reason her inquest testimony has been "lost"?
I dunno, Joe...is there really any evidence to the allegations that Abby was abusive? Everyone described her as a "lovely lady". On the other hand, I'm sure we all know of individuals who turn out to be totally different than what they would have people believe.

As for the windows, Mrs. Churchill testified that Thursday WAS the normal window-washing day.

Why did the house-sale incident give the girls reason to hate Abby? SHE was the wife, not Lizzie nor Emma, and Andrew had every right to give his wife property if he so desired. As for Andrews feelings towards Abby, she was his wife...there was no reason for them to hate Abby just because Andrew loved her. Perhaps, never having children themselves, or even a beau, they did not understand the concept that loving one person did not mean you stopped loving others.

Now Emma seeing Abby as the "wicked step-mother" I can understand..she was a teenager when Andrew married Abby...and probably had free-rein of the house before Abby came along. It's possible that 14 year old Emma was an insufferable little snot, as a lot of 14 year old girls can be, and Abby tried to curb her behavior, as well as take on the responsibilities of raising Lizzie. Perhaps that's why Emma was sent off to school. I'm sure that would have fueled Emma's resentment of Abby.

I'm sure Emma had a lot of influence on Lizzie...personally, I would have hated to be in Abby's shoes...it's possible Abby started out with the best of intentions and the situation in the household became rife with ill-feelings over the years. And Andrew may have wanted no part of the squabbles between the 3 women...making the girls feel he sided with Abby. Perhaps he did side with Abby..with good reason.

What bothers me is the girls feelings of entitlement to everything...they certainly showed no consideration for Abby or how she would manage in her old age.

It's an understatement to say this was a dysfunctional family.
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Post by shakiboo »

I hate to say it but I think Emma was the rotten apple in the barrel, Lizzie could have accepted Abbie, she was to young to have any memories of her real mother. I wonder what her life would have been like had Emma not come back home. We'll never know what their home life was really like, but I believe Emma spread alot of hatred around. Probably to the point of making Lizzie chose between her and Abbie. Still waters run deep, Emma was quiet, Lizzie was more out spoken and because people heard what she said, she became "the one most likely". Psycologically doesn't Emma fit the profile better? Had she been there, I don't think Lizzie would have been looked at the same way.
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Post by snokkums »

I have to argee with you, Shakiboo, Emma was the rotten apple. Lizzie only knew her mother thru Emma, so Emma was the one starting everything. I think Emma felt upsurped by abby. Abby was coming in and being the knew "mom". For so long, Emma took care of Lizzie and probably the household, too. She wasn't too pleased to have someone else to do that.
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Post by Angel »

Maybe Emma did what is called "triangulating". In other words, setting things up so that she looks like the innocent party, but making sure in a manipulative but subtle way that Lizzie and Abby would constantly be at each other's throats. I was thinking too that maybe Andrew put a lock between his and Lizzie's rooms because he came to worry about Lizzie harrassing Abby. If she and Emma did things to hassle Abby, the "break in" would make sense. It seems like most of the things that were taken were Abby's stuff.
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Post by shakiboo »

Yes, and having already been sent away once, Emma might have been threatend with being sent away again, if she caused any trouble. After the murder, she could come right out and say she didn't like Abbie, as she had an air tight alibi Emma could have been the one doing the nasty little things to Abbie.
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Post by patsy »

This is interesting, and keeping with an open mind I could possibly believe Mary, but then I would wonder if the person or "vehicle" through which the information was conveyed to her really was correct or was it from a speculator like many of us.

Thank you for sharing. I can imagine your surprise at how much Mary seemed to know. Fascinating.
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Post by Kat »

That story would have made a good book!
Is Mary one you can contact again? And how much did that cost? I have another question- did Mary know all these names and call Bridget "Maggie" as well?

As for the theory- it's interesting. But that's 4 people minimum who kept a secret for the rest of their lives? I don't know if that's possible. :?:
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Post by joe »

Kat @ Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:45 pm wrote:That story would have made a good book!
Took the words right out of my mouth, Kat!
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Post by affie4u »

Sounds good to me but one thing I find strange is

too many people would know about it and you would think
one of the 4 would talk

lizzie, emma, uncle John or the maid bridget would talk.

whoever murdered andrew & abby knew how to keep there mouths
shut.That is why they got away with it all these years.Most people who murder someone tell someone & they get caught-4 people knowing for sure who killed someone & not talking is not that common.
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Post by shakiboo »

There's no statute of limitations on Murder, and hanging by the neck until dead, would be a great reason to keep ones mouth shut. Especially four people that closely involved. IMHO Three family members, and the odd one out, and if the story is true she did want to tell some one something when she thought she was dying but didn't.
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Post by Nadzieja »

I've been thinking about what you said Kat. Would 4 people who knew the truth about the murder be able to keep their mouths shut? If one of them terrorized the other 3, I would say yes, they would be quiet. Also the murders for that time were gruesome, I think that they didn't want to be associated with it. Also I found it a little strange that Maggie went to the midwest and seems to have just been quiet about everything. There was just something about her moving so far away. To me anyways it just seems like she want to really distance herself from everyone and all the news.
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Post by twinsrwe »

I have been thinking about this thread ever since it was posted. It certainly would make a good book or perhaps a movie.

I have always felt that Emma had a hand in these murders and have often thought she was brain behind them. Emma appears to have been a huge influence in Lizzie's life and I think Lizzie would do anything Emma told her to do. I, like SallyG, wonder what happened to the murder weapon and bloody clothes. Did the medium say anything about Dr. Dolan? I also find it odd that the medium referred to Bridget as "Maggie".

BTW: It appears that everyone is so caught up in your story, Diane, that no one has welcomed you to the forum!!! So, WELCOME - I hope you find your stay with us enjoyable.
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Post by Nadzieja »

I to got wrapped up in that theory and I've also been thinking about it. Excuse my manners. I'd also like to say WELCOME, and I'm sure you will find this forum very intersting and you can't imagine how much you learn from it.
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Post by Yooper »

I'm having trouble reconciling a few things here. Lizzie and Emma, who aren't right in the head, gain the confidence and cooperation of John Morse and Bridget, people who would have been aware of any mental instability? Lizzie and Emma, who don't trust people, enlist the help of two others, one of whom is no relation to them? They trust these people with a very large secret? It seems to me that a sizable amount of trust is involved in even approaching Bridget with the offer of payment for her assistance.
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Post by bob_m_ryan »

I have long thought Bridget to be innocent of committing the murders. However, I think she may have figured what happened or at least had a real good idea. It seems completely natural to me that she would want to move away from Fall River after what happened.
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Post by 1bigsteve »

bob_m_ryan @ Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:18 pm wrote:I have long thought Bridget to be innocent of committing the murders. However, I think she may have figured what happened or at least had a real good idea. It seems completely natural to me that she would want to move away from Fall River after what happened.

I agree. I think Bridget was innocent of any crime but it didn't take her long to put two and three together and decided to keep her mouth shut and leave, for her own well being.

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Post by kfactor »

Fascinating story! Would make a good episode of "Psychic Investigators."

Bridget did get a sum of money after the trial, and moved back to Ireland before coming back to the US and settling in the west. (Pardon the rustiness with my Borden facts), but, is it known for sure where or why Bridget got this money? From the Bordens?
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Post by DJ »

I'm fascinated by psychics' takes on this case, particularly a take from someone who seems "reliable."
Was Emma "Iago" to Lizzie's "Othello"? I do think Emma was way in on the murder plot. It came out at trial that she hated Abby far more than Lizzie did. Also, she stood to gain. Furthermore, I'm sure she didn't want Abby to have anything, much less more than she (Emma). Poor Em-- she would have gotten everything if Lizzie had gone down.
Uncle John's actions (under-reacting to the presence of the mob at the house, then his exclamations upon entering; also, his interest in Andrew's finances; also, his ludicrously "airtight" alibi) bespeak his involvement as well.
Bridget's the cypher. How much did she know in advance? At the very least, I'm sure she kept her mouth shut about much incriminating evidence at trial, concerning what she had observed regarding household interactions. She remained in the sisters' good graces throughout the ordeal, accompanying them overseas post-trial. Doubtless, some money was settled upon her for her discretion.
One of the fascinating points the psychic made was that the murder was supposed to have been staged at night-- was it to have been the night of the third? Was Uncle John supposed to have done it, then lost his nerve? I'm not talking an over-the-top whacking-- just a few. After all, he butchered meat.
Lizzie was out for awhile that evening. Bridget, even longer. Were those their intended alibis? Did Uncle John lose his gumption that evening?
A nighttime murder would have made more sense, at any rate, especially given the modus operandi.
What's astounding about the murders is Lizzie's carelessness about an alibi. Why that morning? Did Uncle John, the back-out, send Lizzie into a froth about Andrew's financial planning, so Lizzie would see fit to take up the hatchet, thus relieving sheepish U.J. of the onerous task.
Let's face it: Anyone who hears "the milk cans are being poisoned" tale and the prussic acid incident, with all its many witnesses, can well assume that murder was on the table.
The murders seem spontaneous, poorly thought-out, but that's probably because Lizzie "lost it" at the last minute, fearing Andrew was making a move that would have left her and Emma at the low end of the totem pole. A better-laid plan may well have fallen apart the evening of August Third. It's an interesting thought.
Any more psychic stories?
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Post by DJ »

I'm fascinated by psychics' takes on this case, particularly a take from someone who seems "reliable."
Was Emma "Iago" to Lizzie's "Othello"? I do think Emma was way in on the murder plot. It came out at trial that she hated Abby far more than Lizzie did. Also, she stood to gain. Furthermore, I'm sure she didn't want Abby to have anything, much less more than she (Emma). Poor Em-- she would have gotten everything if Lizzie had gone down.
Uncle John's actions (under-reacting to the presence of the mob at the house, then his exclamations upon entering; also, his interest in Andrew's finances; also, his ludicrously "airtight" alibi) bespeak his involvement as well.
Bridget's the cypher. How much did she know in advance? At the very least, I'm sure she kept her mouth shut about much incriminating evidence at trial, concerning what she had observed regarding household interactions. She remained in the sisters' good graces throughout the ordeal, accompanying them overseas post-trial. Doubtless, some money was settled upon her for her discretion.
One of the fascinating points the psychic made was that the murder was supposed to have been staged at night-- was it to have been the night of the third? Was Uncle John supposed to have done it, then lost his nerve? I'm not talking an over-the-top whacking-- just a few. After all, he butchered meat.
Lizzie was out for awhile that evening. Bridget, even longer. Were those their intended alibis? Did Uncle John lose his gumption that evening?
A nighttime murder would have made more sense, at any rate, especially given the modus operandi.
What's astounding about the murders is Lizzie's carelessness about an alibi. Why that morning? Did Uncle John, the back-out, send Lizzie into a froth about Andrew's financial planning, so Lizzie would see fit to take up the hatchet, thus relieving sheepish U.J. of the onerous task.
Let's face it: Anyone who hears "the milk cans are being poisoned" tale and the prussic acid incident, with all its many witnesses, can well assume that murder was on the table.
The murders seem spontaneous, poorly thought-out, but that's probably because Lizzie "lost it" at the last minute, fearing Andrew was making a move that would have left her and Emma at the low end of the totem pole. A better-laid plan may well have fallen apart the evening of August Third. It's an interesting thought.
Any more psychic stories?
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Post by twinsrwe »

Well, I find it interesting that mbhenty and joe are the only members who asked a question that was responded to by the author of this thread. Several other members asked questions that have not been answered, by Snavely or by the physic via Snavely.

I find it very strange that Snavely submitted two posts and has not been back to answer the questions that she would know the answers to; questions like: Is Mary one you can contact again? And how much did that cost? Did Mary know all these names and call Bridget "Maggie" as well? Did the medium say anything about Dr. Dolan?

Nor has she been back to let us know that this physic was contacted again to answer the questions that only this physic can answer; questions like: What happened to the murder weapon? And what was it? And what happened to the bloody clothes?

Nor has she been back to let us know that she made an attempt to contact this physic but could not for whatever reason.

I think this 'story' is either Snavely's theory which she presented to us in what she felt is a more believable form, or it is pure speculation on the part of the physic.

As Sergeant Joe Friday said, when questioning a woman during a police investigation, "All we want are the facts, ma'am."


Note: I know many of you will say that Sergeant Joe Friday said, "Just the facts, ma'am." However, check out what snopes-com has to say about it: http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/dragnet.asp
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Post by Kat »

Well I was wondering the same thing and so many of my questions were not answered and no Snavely so I kind of opted out of this topic after a while.

Heck, I was considering getting up a collection to hire Mary-the-psychic one more time.
All the questions Knowlton never asked Lizzie have always bothered me. :batman:
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Post by Kat »

Hello, DJ. Would you like to introduce yourself?
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Post by twinsrwe »

Partial quote by Kat @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:41 am wrote:... Heck, I was considering getting up a collection to hire Mary-the-psychic one more time.
All the questions Knowlton never asked Lizzie have always bothered me. :batman:
I was thinking the same thing, Kat. If this Mary is as legitimate as Snavely claims, then we would really be on to something here, wouldn't we? The questions we could ask!!!
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
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Post by twinsrwe »

Jeez, where are my manners!

Welcome to the forum, David. I hope you will find this forum not only fun, but educational as well.
Last edited by twinsrwe on Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
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Post by twinsrwe »

Partial quote by DJ @ Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:39 pm wrote: ... Any more psychic stories?
Following is a thread regarding what Psychic Sylvia Browne has to say about the Borden murder case:

viewtopic.php?t=3171&highlight=psychic

This link will take you to Mondo Lizzie Borden, so that you can see the YouTube video Stefani posted, regarding Lee-ann Wilbur and Psychic Sylvia Browne on the Montel Williams show:

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizz ... -williams/


Type the word 'psychic' in the search field at the top of the page - you'll find other threads as well.
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
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Post by Yooper »

twinsrwe @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:11 am wrote:
Partial quote by Kat @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:41 am wrote:... Heck, I was considering getting up a collection to hire Mary-the-psychic one more time.
All the questions Knowlton never asked Lizzie have always bothered me. :batman:
I was thinking the same thing, Kat. If this Mary is as legitimate as Snavely claims, then we would really be on to something here, wouldn't we? The questions we could ask!!!
But...but...but...the psychic must be legitimate, she got the questions right about Snavely's family.

When the psychic gets the questions right about my family, then I'll believe the psychic! Until then, talk is cheap!
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Post by Kat »

Well, it was a good story while it lasted. :smile:
It was entertaining, at least.
I have some psychic talent myself, but not much on this case and certainly not with any gambling or lottery. I would think a good psychic, in this day and age, would be rich and retired! I'm good at poker tho. :batman:
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Post by Yooper »

One additional thought: Assuming the psychic is legitimate, how in the world are you going to know whether or not the spook is lying?
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Post by DJ »

I've been asked to introduce myself-- oh, no! Briefly, I'm a 47-year-old writer/editor in Columbia, S.C. Born in-state, but grew up in Jackson, Miss., and Metairie, LA (a suburb of New Orleans), where I finished high school. B.A. in English and communication arts from Rhodes College, Memphis, and an M.A. in journalism from the Univ. of S.C.
Enough? This case has haunted my dreams for many years, as I'm sure it has yours. Maybe we were all living "other lives" at the times, in which we were directly/indirectly/or just plain fascinatedly affected by this case?
Now I'm sounding like the alleged psychic. I so wanted to believe the story! Maybe I should ask the Wizard for a brain--
And, please be patient with me-- I've just discovered the Bordens had a flush toilet! Does anyone know how they bathed, aside from pitcher/washbowl sponging and/or wiping? Was there a tub of any sort? (Obviously not a fixture, but something movable.)
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Partial quote by Yooper @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:36 pm wrote:... When the psychic gets the questions right about my family, then I'll believe the psychic! Until then, talk is cheap!
I'm with you on this one, Jeff!

Yooper @ Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:08 am wrote:One additional thought: Assuming the psychic is legitimate, how in the world are you going to know whether or not the spook is lying?
Good question. I would think, there would need to be some sort of proof that whatever the psychic would say is true.
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
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Post by twinsrwe »

Partial quote by Kat @ Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:36 am wrote:Well, it was a good story while it lasted. :smile:
It was entertaining, at least. ...
Yes, it was. Too bad Snavely disappeared. :sad:

Partial quote by Kat @ Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:36 am wrote:... I have some psychic talent myself, but not much on this case and certainly not with any gambling or lottery. ...
I also have some psychic abilities, which are more with the living; especially foreseeing events concerning my son. Although, I have had some experiences with the dead. Nothing that would solve a murder case, though.

Partial quote by Kat @ Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:36 am wrote:... I would think a good psychic, in this day and age, would be rich and retired! ...
I haven't had any experience with a psychic, however, I think if a true psychic had the ability to solve murder cases there wouldn't be a need for police officers, detectives, investigators, witness, juries, or judges. Did I miss anyone? There wouldn't be any unsolved murder mysteries nor would the Lizzie Borden Society exist!
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
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Post by Nadzieja »

Welcome to the forum DJ. Believe me I've learned so much not only by reading this forum but also the source documents and The Hatchet publication. I'm just enjoying the journey & learning along the way. Hope you will have as much fun as I have.
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Post by Yooper »

Welcome to the forum DJ, I'm glad you could join us!
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Post by DJ »

I appreciate all the "welcome's"!
Back to psychics and trusting the spooks-- Sylvia Browne claims this as a major reason not (aw!) to use Ouija boards, that one is just as likely to pull up a disgruntled, unhappy (and therefore completely unreliable, even spiteful) spirit as a trustworthy one. Her method is to contact her Spirit Guide. Apparently, we all have one, in addition to Guardian Angels, which are not spirits-- Sylvia claims-- but a different "phylum" that may assume human form.
The Spirit Guide, however, is (all this according to Sylvia) the spirit of someone who once lived and no longer reincarnates, but serves as a guide. How does a Spirit Guide "know everything"? Well, they have access to the Akashic Record (everything that's ever happened).
According to Browne's considerable written oeuvre, when we (hopefully) cross to The Other Side, we'll be able to access the "life scroll" of anyone we wish, and re-live his/her life! The downside to that is that one must experience every iota of pain and sorrow that person experienced as well as "the highlights"-- no fast-forwarding through the bad parts.
According to Sylvia, the ghosts of Andrew and Abby haunt No. 92, along with the ghosts of three children who lived nearby. The latter are apparently rather mischievous. However, ghosts are spirits that haven't crossed over and are therefore earthbound. Sylvia implores readers/listeners to pray for these trapped spirits "to go to the White Light of the Holy Spirit."
OK! Don't think the messenger made this up-- it's pure "Sylvia."
Again, I appreciate the welcome!
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Post by william »

I have a question, and I'm not being snide.

What is a "legitimate" psychic?
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Post by twinsrwe »

william @ Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:24 pm wrote:I have a question, and I'm not being snide.

What is a "legitimate" psychic?
What I meant by the word legitimate is this: 2: being exactly as purposed : neither spurious nor false (legitimate grievance) (a legitimate practitioner)

Source ~ Merriam-Webster Online: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/legitimate

Sorry about the confusion, William, I could have been a bit more clear; perhaps I should have used the word 'genuine' instead of 'legitimate' ~ a genuine psychic.

BTW: Please don't worry - I don't feel you are being at all snide. If what I post was not clear to one person, then chances are others are also unclear, so, I'm glad you asked the question. :grin:
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
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Post by Yooper »

I think I understand the question William, the term "psychic" is an absolute. Kind of like "pregnant", you either are or you aren't! "Legitimate psychic" is redundant.
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Post by twinsrwe »

Yooper @ Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:12 pm wrote:I think I understand the question William, the term "psychic" is an absolute. Kind of like "pregnant", you either are or you aren't! "Legitimate psychic" is redundant.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, Jeff. However, I disagree with you. Just because a person claims to be psychic does not mean they have genuine psychic powers; they could just as well be a fraud. As I explained in my previous post, I probably should have used the word 'genuine' instead of 'legitimate'.

Is the subject of our discussion regarding a psychic who is genuine, or are we changing the topic of this thread to 'let's pick apart Judy's use of words'?
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
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Post by Yooper »

I meant no offense Judy, I used the term "legitimate" myself with respect to "psychic" in an earlier post. I understand your meaning, legitimate rather than a charlatan, and that's what I was referring to also.

If I understood William's point correctly, he was referring to an "illegitimate psychic" being a misnomer with respect to psychic ability. The term may tend to addresses the individual, not the ability. He may also have been referring to a lack of "credentials" based upon a lack of parameters for determining psychic ability.

In any event, it is a minor point, and it's clear what is meant by "legitimate", it refers to actually having psychic ability rather than pretending to have psychic ability.
To do is to be. ~Socrates
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Post by Kat »

I wish I could use my *ability* in this case!

I wish I could win at Jai-Lai! If I picked #4 to win in game 5, he did not win. But #4 would win in game 6! That's how my *abilities* run! :batman: What good is that?
Then I tried to fake myself out and pick a number for that game but bet that number the next game instead. Believe me, it doesn't work. :smile:
I only was interested in Jai-Lai for a couple of seasons a long time ago, btw.

Yesterday I successfully read a guy I just met at the post office. The more I challenge myself by committing to a reading of a person, the better I am getting. I think validation is essential to a psychics' confidence.
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Post by DJ »

Sylvia Browned claims we all have innate psychic abilities, which can be further developed and honed through practice and increased awareness of our spiritual sides (as opposed to the side that makes us desirous to win big in lotteries). She claims that children, especially, have a fresh sense of "The Other Side," although this is conditioned out of them by a generally disbelieving society.
However, she also claims we are "blind spotted" to reading ourselves, which is probably why "legitimate" psychics haven't put Vegas and the Powerball Jackpot, etc., out of business.
We had a terrific psychic, now deceased, in this area, named Mary Green. She worked on many police investigations, and a top-rated TV affiliate (NBC) frequently featured her on a call-in program. She was particularly adept at locating lost items. I knew an "uptight" business person who floored me by saying she had privately consulted with Mrs. Green over a lost document, via the phone. Mrs. Green told her exactly where to look-- and the important missing paper was there!
Just visit a "red state" if you're into "hocus pocus"! Indeed, I find it humorously ironic that one of Columbia's major suburbs is named Cayce, after renowned psychic Edgar Cayce. I believe he "read" for FDR. I know for a fact Jeanne Dixon did, during WWII!!! Indeed, she informed him, in January 1945, that he only had a few months longer to live-- gosh, not the type of thing I'd like to hear; but, then again, if you're president and time is crucial and fleeting... .
Let's not forget the Lincolns' predilection for holding seances in the White House, the Reagans' affinity for astrology, and most probably many other instances of presidential faith in the paranormal to which we are not privy.
Oh: Sylvia also says that just because psychics can't foretell the lives they're destined to lead doesn't mean that we shouldn't all heed the inner voice that holds us back, moves us in another direction, or ushers us forth.
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