Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I remember reading somewhere that the lady who has lived in Lizzie's house for a long time and now runs the B & B is convinced that Lizzie is innocent. Has anyone who has talked with her found out her views and why she believes that?

Sounds like you might be talking about Martha McGinn, but she no longer owns the B&B. It has had new owners since about June. I have never spoken with Martha, but maybe some of the others have ?


Tracy...

I think she's in one of the videos.
She talked about the paranormal activity around the house.
In fact, all her interviews and that appearance all dealt with the ghostly aspect...so I don't think I ever heard Martha's personal opinion on the murders thru the media.

I didn't talk to Martha,except on the phone about my reservation, but I did have a good talk with Sally McGinn on my first visit.She conducted the tour and gave us the history of the case.Then later that night Sally and another of the guests talked with me for a few hours in the sitting room about the different theories of the case.Sally did not believe Lizzie did it on her own,she belived Lizzie plotted with someone else to commit the murder.That was one of the most enjoyable aspects of my visit. Sally was very easy to talk to, very down to earth, and it was a joy talking to her about the case. The next day we watched the video of her playing Abby Borden and made comments on her role as the murdered step mother.Bill was also very easy to talk to. My husband and I sat on the front steps and talked to him for awhile in the evening.I really enjoyed my visit because of these two.

I love Sally ! She even makes making reservations fun !


Tracy...

Angel @ Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:34 pm wrote:I remember reading somewhere that the lady who has lived in Lizzie's house for a long time and now runs the B & B is convinced that Lizzie is innocent. Has anyone who has talked with her found out her views and why she believes that?

You know what, Angel?
I found an article in this computer from SouthCoastToday, dated 9-3-98 about Maplecroft and the owner, Mr. Dube opening the house as a B&B.
In the article it stated (partial):

"...the warm, yet somewhat enigmatic Mr. Dube, who defends Lizzie as though she were a member of his family.

'She was innocent,' he said firmly. 'She was a victim of poor police work and an overzealous prosecution effort.' He thinks her uncle, John Morse, committed the murders after arguing with her father. Lizzie knew her uncle was guilty, he believes, but had nothing to do with the heinous hatchet-jobs.

Her only crime, if you can call it that, was that she wouldn't rat out her family. 'I think they were on to Uncle John,' Mr. Dube told me. 'But they were pressing charges on Lizzie thinking she would talk.'

Lizzie was tougher than that, which appears to be one of the reasons he admires the fabled villainess. 'I like people who can stand their ground and do their own reasoning,' he said.

'How else could she have managed her properties and her wealth?'"

Is this the new owner? I hope his opinion does not lead to bias when presenting the history of the case for tours and such.

This is Mr. Dube who bought the French Street property, Maplecroft, in 1980.
He opened the place as a B&B for a short time.
It's back to being a private residence. Sorry if I was not clear.

I think it's interesting if Both Lizzie house owners think she was *innocent.*
(But I don't know Martha McGinn's opinion-the longtime owner of #92 Second Street) and I don't know Lee-Ann's opinion, the new owner/manager.

I think she did it.

Why?

The lady has spoken. Welcome to the Forum, Lee-Ann! Nice to have you aboard.

Yes Lee-ann...welcome welcome ! We were hoping you'd join us !


Tracy...

It's like having a celebrity visit!
Yes, thanks for your opinion, Lee-ann.

Lee-ann...

I (and I think others) would be very interested in hearing your "Lizzie story". How you became interested in her and how much this interest compelled you to buy the house. Let me also say that I sincerely admire that you plan to return #92 to as much of it's original appearance as possible. Sacrificing rentable space in the Leary Press building! I love when passion for something outweighs what most people would think of as common sense....

Well said Audrey! I will also be very glad to see the house more as it was in 1892. It's very exciting also to have Lee-ann in the forum. I would love to hear your theories on why Lizzie did it.

Welcome Lee-Ann, it's nice to see you on the forum.

There's a brief mention of the B&B in this mornings South Coast Today at

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12 ... 4hh035.htm

How good it is to know that the house and property are in such safe and caring hands.

Well thank you everyone, it's nice to be here...How did we become interested in the house?...Well, growing up in Rhode Island I'd always known the story of Lizzie. Two years ago I was trying to think of the most romantic thing I could do for my boyfriend for Valentines Day, and decided to bring him here for the night. He developed an intrest in the case soon enough himself. Later that November, he turned on the TV one morning to hear that the house was for sale. He called me at work and said 'Guess what we're going to do!' and here we are....We were in the sitting room on the sofa one day and I said 'Look hunny, we've bought our first house together!', he looks around the room, nods his head and says 'Yeah, and look whose house it is. What does that tell you about our relationship!' As for the Leary Press...yes, we could have/would have fixed the incredible leaking roof (Lake Leary) and turned it into a Starbucks (just kidding), if we did not get the approval to tear it down, but we did, so it will be gone very soon. Besides, we desperately need PARKING!

Your darling Boyfriend buys you 92nd and my mean, cruel husband refuses to even entertain the idea of buying Maplecroft.

Would your man be willing to have a little man to man chat with mine?

Audrey you should put Maplecroft on your Christmas list.

And Thayne was going to buy Audrey Maplecroft, but she pushed him over the edge with the two extra pair of shoes. . .

Way to go Lee-ann!

I read your future plans for the property and am *very* pleased.

Exactly what I myself would do (nix the print shop - fix the barn).

I remember when the property was for sale in the early 80's ... (I believe it was about $80,000.).
I wanted to buy it - but my husband was not liking the whole Lizzie thing, so it didn't happen.

(Needless to say, he is now my EX. Lol)

I hope that during the reconstruction, you find some hidden treasures! Wouldn't that be wonderful?

Has anyone *ever* excavated the ground below where the old well was? Or the ground below the old indoor privy? Or the chimney cleanouts? (as in DEEP - not just a surface dig)

I am sure when you dig the foundation for the new barn you *will* find some old goodies! For some reason, it's a Yankee tradition to throw away things under the barn ... Lol
Every old property I ever lived in always had old broken this 'n that underneath them. Not sure how they did that (just threw underneath or down a broken floorboard) but they sure did!

Even my neighbors would find stuff when replacing barn floorboards (or renovating).

Also, everyone buried their garbage in the back yard in those days... IF they didn't burn it in the stove (haha).

The land under the print shop might yeild a surprise or two as well.
I am SO excited for you! And the potential for new discoveries!

Yes, we have discussed exavation under Leary....Ed was in Leary for an hour one day to decide where he was going to start digging first. The problem is time and $. Digging is a delay and delays = $$$$$. Especially once the contractor starts to work. The window of opportunity will be very small. So, we shall see.....In the meantime, would anyone be interested in one slightly used Lynotype machine? FREE! extra parts included with type case!! Waiting for you here at the Leary Press in beautiful downtown Fall River. You move. Call me.

Thank you so much for keeping us up-to-date, Lee-ann. Your input is invaluable!

It's very reassuring to hear from you, Lee-ann!
When I first got word that the house was going to be sold, my heart sunk a little, for fear of "who knows what". I'm very excited for you, and I can't wait to see the property after you are through restoring it!

In my opinion, the worst thing to haunt that house, was the Leary Press Building! I'm thrilled that you are planning on giving it the axe! (sorry)

Good luck!!!
Ray

page 42 in my copy of the Witness statements,

"About the middle of the week, Dr. Dolan ordered all the articles dug up. After taking out pieces of clothing and of the carpet, they were all buried again. This time they were all put in a box."

Speaking of excavations of the property. I wonder if any of these items are still buried there after all this time? Or were they all recovered?

At the end of the trial, there is a list of evidence- maybe that will show what they kept out of what they buried and dug up and buried and dug up.
(But no "Prince Albert" coat...)

I wonder what secrets would be revealed by a luminol test on that carpet?

Suppose the hatchet was in one of those privvies in the barn? Now would be a good time to find out (when LP is torn down). My wife and I would book a a nother stay just to see the hatchet! Ever notice how Lizzie put herself "up in the barn" but not in the privvy? That would have been a good place to say you were when "the thing happened" instead of the idiotic excuse of eating pears and adjusting a curtain at the upper, opposite part of the barn. Does make a person wonder though. Escavation turning up a hatchet beneth where the privvies were would be very exciting if nothing else.

I have never talked to her. Although I have seen her on some shows like the most hanunted hotels and such. I am not so convinced lizzie is all that innocent. She wasnt to crazy about her step mom and her father was a bit of a tight wad. That would make anyone want to kill there parents.

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... ceList.htm

The Trial of Lizzie A. Borden. Upon an indictment charging her with the murders of Abby Durfee Borden and Andrew Jackson Borden. Before the Superior Court for the County of Bristol. Presiding, C.J. Mason, J.J. Blodgett, and J.J. Dewey. Official stenographic report by Frank H. Burt (New Bedford, MA., 1893, 2 volumes).

"The following articles which had been offered in evidence during the progress of the trial were selected from among the exhibits in the case by counsel and sent to the jury":

"Pages 1927-1928
Plans and photographs marked as exhibits in the case.
Skulls of Mr. and Mrs. A. J. Borden.
Bedspread and pillow shams.
Handkerchief found by Mrs. Borden's body.
Piece of doorframe taken from inside of dining room.
Piece of moulding taken from guest chamber west of dressing case.
Piece of plaster.
Two axes.
Claw-hammer hatchet.
Hatchet with plain head.
Handleless hatchet and bit of wood.
Blue blouse and dress skirt.
White skirt.
Magnifying glass.


Pages 1608+


LIST OF EXHIBITS.

1. Large plan, showing main street and other streets.
2. Plan of Borden premises, and surrounding estates.
3. Plan of Borden premises, including ground floor of house.
4. Plan of Borden premises, including second story.
5. Plan of sitting room.
6. Blue print of Exhibit 3.
7. Blue print of Exhibit 4.
8. Blue print of Borden premises and surrounding estates.
9. Plan of cellar.
10 - 14. Photographs of Borden house.
15 - 19. Photographs of bodies.
20 - 21. Carpets.
22. Tag attached to jar containing Mr. Borden's stomach.
23. Tag attached to jar containing Mrs. Borden's stomach.
24 - 43. Small photographs of Borden premises.
44. Pin produced by Mr. Adams for comparison, in connection with testimony of Professor Wood.
(All item numbers inclusive.)"

--What was taken into the jury room may not necessarilly be all the evidence that was submitted at the trial.
Here listed are carpets and Lizzie's clothing, and the handkerchief, but not the clothing of the deceased.