Intro and New Book

This the place to have frank, but cordial, discussions of the Lizzie Borden case

Moderator: Adminlizzieborden

User avatar
Quill
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:07 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Quill

Intro and New Book

Postby Quill » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:56 pm

Good afternoon everyone,

I would like to introduce myself by saying I've been a "lurker" here for quite some time, but have never really had the courage to post. The level of intelligence and knowledge here is quite daunting, but I finally have a question I haven't seen addressed yet and I would love to get your opinions! (I have been obsessed with all things "Lizzie" since I was a very small child, but only started the heavy researching when I was cast in a play as Sarah Borden years ago).

Has anyone read the new book "Lizzie Borden- From Cold Case to Case Closed"? It was on sale in (of all places) my mother's hairdresser's shop. It was authored by Rich Little and Beverly Folstad. Thoughts anyone? I'm particularly interested in what member's opinions are of the unique writing style the authors utilized.

Thanks for indulging me. I have tremendous respect and admiration for this group!

Quill

User avatar
Curryong
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:46 am
Gender: Female
Real Name: Rosalind
Location: Cranbourne, Australia

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Curryong » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:44 pm

Hi, Quill, and welcome. Please don't be afraid to post. We welcome all posters, new and old, in discussing this fascinating case.

I have never heard of 'Lizzie Borden : From Cold Case to Case Closed' until you mentioned it. I've just taken a look at the positive reviews for it on Amazon and it sounds interesting. It's a part autobiography of Lizzie, part new look at the case, isn't it?

Because I live in Australia I prefer to get all overseas-published books on my Kindle, except of course, for the 'bibles' on the case, Len Rebello's masterpiece and Parallel Lives. I have sent for others, through Amazon but it costs a lot in freight and takes such a long time to get here. I wait and wait!

So, as this new book's not on Kindle I won't be buying it, to my disappointment. Give us a hint on its solution! I take it that the killer is not Lizzie but another member of the household. Bridget or John? Or does Andrew kill Abby and is then murdered himself?

User avatar
twinsrwe
Posts: 3844
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Judy
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby twinsrwe » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:13 pm

Welcome to the forum Quill. I'm glad to see you have submitted a post. Please don't be put off by the different levels of intelligence and knowledge; we all started out in the same place you are. Please feel free to ask questions, even if the subject has been brought up and discussed in the past. We are all learning more and more as we discuss different aspects of the Borden case, give our opinions, theories and etc. I hope you will become more comfortable submitting posts as time goes on.

Now to answer your question...

I have not heard of this book. Thank you for bringing it to our attention. I went online and found it on Amazon. Here is their summary of the book:

On a pleasant summer day in August, 1892, a double homicide occurred in a quiet neighborhood in the coastal textile city of Fall River, Massachusetts, near the Rhode Island border. An elderly couple, Andrew Jackson Borden and his second wife, Abby Durfee Borden, were brutally bludgeoned to eternity with what was described as a blunt object. From the chaos of the first hour and a quarter, the police and soon the local District Attorney and the Mayor of Fall River, physician-turned-politician, John W. Coughlin, had narrowed their list of suspects from nearly a gross to one--the daughter of Andrew Jackson Borden and step-daughter of Abby Durfee Borden: Lizzy Andrew Borden. With the tumult caused by the ferocity of the murders, the celebrity of the players, and the gross ineptitude of the investigation, the trial of Lizzie Borden rocked Massachusetts with scandal. Lost amongst all the celebrity and gossip, however, was one important historical tidbit that few remember: Lizzie was found not guilty. Given that fact, an even smaller group of people, including the two authors of this book, pondered this question: If Lizzie was found not guilty, who was the actual murderer of Andrew and Abby Borden? It is now time to let Lizbeth tell you her side of the proceedings as the truth is revealed and the actual killer is discovered.

http://tinyurl.com/owypxgk

I found it very impressive that there are a total of 12 reviews; 11 are 5-star reviews and 1 is a 4-star review. I think I may just get a copy since it seems to be a highly rated book.

Quill wrote:... Thanks for indulging me. I have tremendous respect and admiration for this group! Quill

You're quite welcome, and thank you for the kind words. :grin:
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:22 pm

I have the book.

Have not read it completely.

:study:
Last edited by mbhenty on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
twinsrwe
Posts: 3844
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Judy
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby twinsrwe » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:06 pm

Thank you MB, for your take on this book. It sounds a lot like Arnold Brown's book!
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:56 pm

Funny point:



:study:
Last edited by mbhenty on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
twinsrwe
Posts: 3844
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Judy
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby twinsrwe » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:19 pm

Oh, WOW! Interesting post, MB!
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

User avatar
Curryong
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:46 am
Gender: Female
Real Name: Rosalind
Location: Cranbourne, Australia

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Curryong » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:41 pm

So John Morse was having an affair with Bridget, according to these authors. Poor Bridget!

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:03 am

Just don't understand these contemporary writers.

Every solution is found in sex, sex, and more sex. Morse was 60 and Borden was nearly 70.

Must have been all that mutton and johnny cakes.

User avatar
Aamartin
Posts: 663
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:56 pm
Real Name: Anthony Martin
Location: Iowa

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Aamartin » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:36 am

Maybe, in the Borden house, Mutton way keyword for 'oysters'?

I ordered it... Time will tell.

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:42 pm

You ordered what Aamartin:

The book or the oysters? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :oops:

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:37 pm

I left the book Cold Case to Case Closed on the chair when I went to bed last night.


:study:
Last edited by mbhenty on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:49 pm

For those not familiar with the cover of the book. Paperback.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:55 pm

Sherry Chapman's book: Lizzie Borden Resurrection.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by mbhenty on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
twinsrwe
Posts: 3844
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Judy
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby twinsrwe » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:16 pm

mbhenty wrote:Just don't understand these contemporary writers.

Every solution is found in sex, sex, and more sex. Morse was 60 and Borden was nearly 70.

Must have been all that mutton and johnny cakes.

OMG, MB, I had my mouth full of coffee when I read this. I had a really hard time swallowing it, before bursting into laughter! :peanut19:
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

User avatar
twinsrwe
Posts: 3844
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Judy
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby twinsrwe » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:37 pm

Seriously, MB, I appreciate your 'review' of Cold Case to Case Closed; it does not sound like something I'd be interested in reading. I have Sherry Chapman's book, and I agree, her book is an excellent and inexpensive substitute for Leonard Rebello's Lizzie Borden Past and Present. Kudos to Sherry!
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

patsy
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:02 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Pat
Location: IL

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby patsy » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:45 pm

HI and welcome, Quill.

I have that book on my Amazon wish list and was waiting for more reviews and money (haha) before I actually bought it, but now I'm thinking about not buying after reading mbhenty's comments about it here.

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:11 pm

Yes, hope you enjoy your stay here Quill.
Last edited by mbhenty on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Aamartin
Posts: 663
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:56 pm
Real Name: Anthony Martin
Location: Iowa

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Aamartin » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:04 pm

mbhenty wrote:You ordered what Aamartin:

The book or the oysters? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :oops:


Both!

User avatar
Curryong
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:46 am
Gender: Female
Real Name: Rosalind
Location: Cranbourne, Australia

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Curryong » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:11 pm

Emma had black pall-bearers at her funeral, didn't she? It had obviously been requested by her and was described as a revival of a 'social custom which had almost been forgotten although formerly followed in all funerals of prominent persons.'

A strange custom, surely? Perhaps it had originated in the slave-owning South.

User avatar
Quill
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:07 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Quill

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Quill » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:21 pm

mbhenty wrote:Yes, hope you enjoy your stay here Quill.

Sometimes the ride becomes a little bumpy and you have to hang on with both hands, otherwise you will not find a better site to search the truth in the Borden case.

Have you read any other books about the case? And if so, what is your opinion of them?

If you do indeed like Cold Case to Case Closed, by all means go out and buy it.

I'm just very cynical about any publication that claim to solve the crime. Especially when errors are made.

Joseph Tetrault was Lizzie's driver at Maplecorft and he was not black.

The authors must have mixed up their coachmen when doing their research.

That's understandable.

But when writing a book, not excusable.

Abram Lee was the black coachman that drove Lizzie from the courtroom to the jail, and home after the trail was over. But he did not work for Miss Borden, or can I find anywhere where Lizzie had a black driver.



Thank you for your gracious welcome, mbhenty. You are right, as far as I know, there is no other forum in existence with folks as knowledgable as this group!

I have read a voluminous amount on Lizzie. It's probably not an exaggeration to say I have read most of the non-fiction books. I just started "Parallel Lives",after having it signed by the authors at the FRHS, and they could not have been nicer or more accommodating to guests.

So, when my mother found this "Case Closed" book on sale at her hairdresser's shop, I was excited, yet confused. I was thinking, "how could there be a Lizzie book recently written that I wasn't aware of?? I did NOT get the memo!!!"
Then, I started reading, and thought, heeeeere we go....."eye roll". The style is just so strange to me. I haven't gotten very far, but my mother had flipped through it and spoiler-alerted me with "Uncle John did it..... And he was having an affair with the maid!!!!!!" Another sigh and eye roll........

User avatar
Quill
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:07 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Quill

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Quill » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:35 pm

patsy wrote:HI and welcome, Quill.

I have that book on my Amazon wish list and was waiting for more reviews and money (haha) before I actually bought it, but now I'm thinking about not buying after reading mbhenty's comments about it here.



Hi Patsy!

Well, it's definitely very, um, different from any other Lizzie books I have read. There is a pear recipe in there I'd like to try (yes, recipes are included....)Turns out one of the authors worked at the same facility I used to work at, once upon a time. He's now a professor at a local community college that is very close by me. I can give a better review after I've actually read it, but I agree with what forum members here have said about it's accuracy. But there are some cool Venn diagram type charts that brought me right back to middle school.

User avatar
Quill
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:07 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Quill

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Quill » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:46 pm

Curryong wrote:Hi, Quill, and welcome. Please don't be afraid to post. We welcome all posters, new and old, in discussing this fascinating case.

I have never heard of 'Lizzie Borden : From Cold Case to Case Closed' until you mentioned it. I've just taken a look at the positive reviews for it on Amazon and it sounds interesting. It's a part autobiography of Lizzie, part new look at the case, isn't it?

Because I live in Australia I prefer to get all overseas-published books on my Kindle, except of course, for the 'bibles' on the case, Len Rebello's masterpiece and Parallel Lives. I have sent for others, through Amazon but it costs a lot in freight and takes such a long time to get here. I wait and wait!

So, as this new book's not on Kindle I won't be buying it, to my disappointment. Give us a hint on its solution! I take it that the killer is not Lizzie but another member of the household. Bridget or John? Or does Andrew kill Abby and is then murdered himself?



Hi Curryong! I have always enjoyed reading your posts. You've always been a particular favorite of mine! These authors clearly believe Lizzie was a misunderstood, railroaded victim. And I'm only, like, five pages in. It's that obvious.I can't get my typical Lizzie momentum going. I'm all onboard with the authors, everything is going along fine, then they sharply shift from non-fiction to flights of fancy and it LOOSES me. But I will finish it, eventually......zzzzzzzzzzz

User avatar
Quill
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:07 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Quill

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Quill » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:55 pm

mbhenty wrote:If you want a more factual account of the information given in the Cold Case read:

Sherry Chapman's book: Lizzie Borden Resurrection.

Sherry is an authority on the case and a well seasoned scholar. Unlike Cold Case to Case Closed Sherry does not pretend to offer any proof of who did the crime. It is an excellent and inexpensive substitute for Leonard Rebello's Lizzie Borden Past and Present.


Thanks for the recommendation, sounds great!

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:54 am

My apology to anyone who feels that I spoiled the book for them.



:study:
Last edited by mbhenty on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:07 am

While we are talking about books.......

I may not have read everything written about Lizzie Borden, but much of it sits on my shelf.

Below is my Borden book collection.

Most of my friends are not impressed at all. They are just not into books. And I found that the ones least interested are teachers.

Every book is either a Borden book or has a chapter or article about Lizzie, or book owned by Lizzie Borden.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Quill
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:07 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Quill

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Quill » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:17 pm

Impressive!!!! VERY! Thanks for sharing, I stand corrected in my bold but unfounded assertion I have read almost everything on Lizzie!

User avatar
debbiediablo
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:42 am
Gender: Female
Real Name: Deborah
Location: Upper Midwest

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby debbiediablo » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:58 pm

I would never spend money on a book like this but sometimes it's fun to read (and propose/discuss/defend/destroy) whacko ideas. Anyone who follows my posts on here would know this is how I operate... :smiliecolors: The thing is that on occasion something far out and totally unbelievable will trigger a plausible idea. Danger from information like this is when factoid or straight out error becomes mistaken for fact. Sort of the like Ruby. Clearly she confabulated, but I wonder exactly where the line is between her veracity and untruth. Most liars take a piece of truth and embellish, sometimes greatly but within the Big Lie (Große Lüge) is a tiny kernel of reality. This makes me wonder exactly if and how David Anthony fit into the Borden family and how he became the focus of Ruby's story.
DebbieDiablo

*´¨)
¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·'*
Even Paranoids Have Enemies


"Everything you want is on the other side of fear."

User avatar
Curryong
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:46 am
Gender: Female
Real Name: Rosalind
Location: Cranbourne, Australia

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Curryong » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:25 am

We'll have to contact Grandma again (was it Grandma or Gramma, who knew all the ins and outs of the Ruby story). Unless of course she has gone to that great Fall River in the sky.
In which case she'll probably be talking to Ruby and Lizzie and Uncle John, Bridget etc.

Seriously though, Shelley in Resurrections did not think much of Ruby's story. It may have been simply that, as a youngster Ruby was taken by Dave Anthony for rides on his motor bike. Who knows but that he and her parents talked on occasion about Lizzie (in hushed tones, of course) and a little girl listened in.

User avatar
debbiediablo
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:42 am
Gender: Female
Real Name: Deborah
Location: Upper Midwest

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby debbiediablo » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:46 pm

It is difficult to put aside all the embellishments that Ruby appended to her own life, some of which are extreme, and then look at the David Anthony story with an totally open mind. I find her version of the aftermath to be more unbelievable than her version of the crime but then I remember that David's father founded the Swift Meat Packing Company, so all the nonsense about meat wagons, etc, might have had a kernel of truth somewhere. For those of you who don't know what this is all about:

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive04 ... tstory.htm

I do recall reading where Gramma says that Stefani knows her. Do you know her MB? What is your opinion of the David Anthony theory?
DebbieDiablo

*´¨)
¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·'*
Even Paranoids Have Enemies


"Everything you want is on the other side of fear."

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:12 am

Yes Deb:

Can't say I know G., or given the Ruby C. story much credence, but neither have I ever thoroughly studied all the claims which she had made back in 1985 to the papers.

I find it far fetched.

Think about it. She waited almost 60 years to tell us, which means she held that secret all that time. Hard to believe. Ruby was a nurse. She must have been coached by her mother to take up nursing, since her mother's employer was the president of a nursing training school in fall river at some time.

I find it hard to believe that Lizzie would have confided in the 20 something Ruby Cameron.

The Anthony family were very important people in Fall River. David Anthony, the first one, not Lizzie's David Anthony, was founder of the cotton textile industry in fall river. David Anthon's grand father, David Anothony, not to be mistaken by David Anthony's father, who's name was David Anthony, is considered the father of the cotton textile industry in fall river.

The problem with everything Ruby said is that it has no link to anything we know about Lizzie. That is to say, there is no written proof, or talk, that Lizzie had a boyfriend or that they were acquainted. You would think he would have come up as a suspect by the virtual fact that Lizzie was his sweetheart. Who knows, perhaps it was a one night stand, an exchange of benefits shared behind the barn.

But a meat wagon???? The maid must have been drilled, questioned without end by the police. David Anthony's name should have come up in print somewhere.

Of course all these people knew each other. Money slept with money.

The only connection I can make between Anthony and Lizzie is Amanda Person, (or Pearson or Perrson?) Amanda worked for this guy named Horton. Horton had a sister named Ruth. (I think it was his sister) Ruth Horton married David Mason Anthony, Little David's father. This Amanda worked for David Anthony's wife's brother. Got it? Amanda Perrosn was very close to Lizzie, dear friends.

Now that you have me interested.....must go to the source. The Cherryfield Me. Newspaper and the Fall River Herald. Hmmmm?

:study:

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:18 am

Below is a picture of David Anthony's summer home in Swansea.... on the water overlooking the Taunton River and Mount Hope Bay. Spectacular views.

What you see below is a rare, probably the only, shot of the Anthony house from the bay. In summer I sail by it 2 or 3 times a week when I go out for an evening sail. It has been in need of repair for quite a while. David Anthony was a sailor, from what I remember reading somewhere.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:23 am

More shots of the David Anthony summer home in Swansea, Ma.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:39 am

Now Twins:

I think you said you read The Girl with the Pansy Pin? Is that right?

Chapter Nine takes place inside the tower of the Anthony house in the photo below, or at least that is how the author envisioned it.

In the Book the fictional character of Caleb Anthony is the owner of the house.

Here Lizzie makes passionate (or naughty) love with/to Martin McCahey, her lover in the novel. :roll: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Quill
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:07 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Quill

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Quill » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:23 pm

mbhenty wrote:More shots of the David Anthony summer home in Swansea, Ma.



Absolutely gorgeous, mbhenty. Thank you for sharing.

Quill

User avatar
Franz
Posts: 1585
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:44 am
Real Name: Li Guangli
Location: Rome, Italy
Contact:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Franz » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:27 pm

mbhenty wrote: ... At times the author has Lizzie talking, telling her story and how Uncle Morse did the murder...


Hey mbhenty. Please tell me, in the book, it's Lizzie who acclaimed that Uncle Morse did the murder? Did Lizzie say in another occasion that she believed her allegued boyfriend David Anthony did it? Thank you.
"Mr. Morse, when you were told for the THIRD time that Abby and Andrew had been killed, why did you pronounce a "WHAT" to Mrs. Churchill? Why?"

User avatar
Franz
Posts: 1585
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:44 am
Real Name: Li Guangli
Location: Rome, Italy
Contact:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Franz » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:46 pm

mbhenty wrote:While we are talking about books.......

I may not have read everything written about Lizzie Borden, but much of it sits on my shelf.

Below is my Borden book collection.

Most of my friends are not impressed at all. They are just not into books. And I found that the ones least interested are teachers.

Every book is either a Borden book or has a chapter or article about Lizzie, or book owned by Lizzie Borden.


Wow!!! what is the book owned by Lizzie?
"Mr. Morse, when you were told for the THIRD time that Abby and Andrew had been killed, why did you pronounce a "WHAT" to Mrs. Churchill? Why?"

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:52 pm

No.

There is no mention about David Anthony.

The David Anthony revelation is something quite recent, 1985.

Some believe that Ruby Cameron made the story up in 1985. There is no record that Ruby mentioned the story to anyone in the past that I know of.

Ms Cameron could have known a lot more than we could ever guess, or she could have just been nuts. We probably will never know.

But there is no mention of David Anthony in Cold Case to Case Closed.

User avatar
Franz
Posts: 1585
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:44 am
Real Name: Li Guangli
Location: Rome, Italy
Contact:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Franz » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:12 pm

mbhenty wrote:No.

There is no mention about David Anthony.

The David Anthony revelation is something quite recent, 1985.

Some believe that Ruby Cameron made the story up in 1985. There is no record that Ruby mentioned the story to anyone in the past that I know of.

Ms Cameron could have known a lot more than we could ever guess, or she could have just been nuts. We probably will never know.

But there is no mention of David Anthony in Cold Case to Case Closed.


I didn't explain myself well.

What I mean is: Ruby Cameron acclaimed that Lizzie told her she believed David Anthony did it.

In this book, instead, the author said Lizzie believed the killer was Uncle John.
"Mr. Morse, when you were told for the THIRD time that Abby and Andrew had been killed, why did you pronounce a "WHAT" to Mrs. Churchill? Why?"

User avatar
Franz
Posts: 1585
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:44 am
Real Name: Li Guangli
Location: Rome, Italy
Contact:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Franz » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:14 pm

mbhenty wrote:... Money slept with money...

:grin:
"Mr. Morse, when you were told for the THIRD time that Abby and Andrew had been killed, why did you pronounce a "WHAT" to Mrs. Churchill? Why?"

User avatar
twinsrwe
Posts: 3844
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Judy
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby twinsrwe » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:57 pm

Since the forum was down a couple of days and we lost some of the posts that were submitted, I will re-post the ones of mine on this thread:

debbiediablo wrote:It is difficult to put aside all the embellishments that Ruby appended to her own life, some of which are extreme, and then look at the David Anthony story with an totally open mind. I find her version of the aftermath to be more unbelievable than her version of the crime but then I remember that David's father founded the Swift Meat Packing Company, so all the nonsense about meat wagons, etc, might have had a kernel of truth somewhere. For those of you who don't know what this is all about:

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive04 ... tstory.htm ...

For those who are interested, here is the continuing link, to the link Debbie posted, of the Gramma and David Anthony story. This thread begins with Kat’s explanation of The Ruby Story:

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archi ... ystory.htm
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:01 pm

Yes Franz, that is correct.

In this book the author has Lizzie speaking. And Lizzie says that Uncle Morse did the murders. Krazy Stuf, really.

User avatar
Franz
Posts: 1585
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:44 am
Real Name: Li Guangli
Location: Rome, Italy
Contact:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Franz » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:20 pm

mbhenty wrote:Yes Franz, that is correct.

In this book the author has Lizzie speaking. And Lizzie says that Uncle Morse did the murders. Krazy Stuf, really.


On this point is the author reliable? Did Lizzie really believe during her life -- she might be wrong, but this is another question --- that Uncle John did it? Any way she and Emma sent a private detective to investigate him --- this is a fact that we know.

(P.S.: If I understand well, in this book, Lizzie believed that Morse killed the two victims by his own hands, right?)
"Mr. Morse, when you were told for the THIRD time that Abby and Andrew had been killed, why did you pronounce a "WHAT" to Mrs. Churchill? Why?"

User avatar
twinsrwe
Posts: 3844
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Judy
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby twinsrwe » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:37 pm

mbhenty wrote:...

The David Anthony revelation is something quite recent, 1985.

Some believe that Ruby Cameron made the story up in 1985. There is no record that Ruby mentioned the story to anyone in the past that I know of.

Ms Cameron could have known a lot more than we could ever guess, or she could have just been nuts. We probably will never know. ....

I agree, MB. It's difficult to believe that Lizzie/Lizbeth kept this secret until she was on her death bed, when she decided to tell, Ruby Cameron, a nurse, who really killed her father and step-mother. Ruby Cameron decided to keep her mouth forever, because she knew it implemented her own father and mother, but then decides, when she is 84-85 years old, that she just had to tell the story to the a newspaper! Why???

I found two newspaper articles on the Ruby Cameron story:

Weekly World News Mar 19, 1985
http://tinyurl.com/q8xqsp5

The Evening News Jan. 6, 1985
http://tinyurl.com/kmw8oyv
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

User avatar
twinsrwe
Posts: 3844
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Judy
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby twinsrwe » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:39 pm

MB, the pictures of David Anthony's summer home in Swansea are fabulous! My favourite is of the house from the bay. I also love the one which shows the large letter ‘A’ in the stone wall.

mbhenty wrote:Now Twins:

I think you said you read The Girl with the Pansy Pin? Is that right?

Chapter Nine takes place inside the tower of the Anthony house in the photo below, or at least that is how the author envisioned it.

In the Book the fictional character of Caleb Anthony is the owner of the house.

Here Lizzie makes passionate (or naughty) love with/to Martin McCahey, her lover in the novel. :roll: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Yes, I have read The Girl with the Pansy Pin. I didn't realize that this ‘hot and steamy’ love scene took place inside the tower of the Anthony house! I love and appreciate these little tidbits of information of how the author envisioned what he wrote in this book! These extra bits of information put a different aspect on the contents of this awesome book. Thanks, MB!
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

mbhenty
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
Real Name:

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby mbhenty » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:48 pm

Yes Franz:

Many years ago there was this police program on TV, fiction, called Dragnet. The main character had a famous line. Sergeant Joe Friday. Listening to witnesses tell their story he would always say JUST THE FACTS MA'AM.

That is something you don't get in this book. (and many others)

Books like these only complicate, confuse and muddle the facts. The authors summation is bunk, nonsense, rubbish..... Of course that is my opinion. Everyone has a right to quarrel a defense. Just supply the facts.

Though this book has redeeming aspects to it, one of its author's theory is not worth discussion. The facts he/she lends us just does not add up. He/she was bold enough to substitute an axe with a cleaver. Even giving Morse an apron which he carries with him at all times.

The authors let Lizzie tell the story in her own words, which never happened, and which complicates things even further for the reader, since everything Lizzie says was never said by Lizzie.

That is why I call this book fiction. If that is the intentions of the authors, then touche'.

In the end I have to say...... if you are writing a book and want it to be factual, then give us JUST THE FACTS MAN, JUST THE FACTS. Don't make things up. There's a lot of credulous and unwary readers out there that will believe anything they read, many because the are to lazy to sort the truth out for themselves.

:study:

User avatar
twinsrwe
Posts: 3844
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Judy
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby twinsrwe » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:09 pm

mbhenty wrote:... In the end I have to say...... if you are writing a book and want it to be factual, then give us JUST THE FACTS MAN, JUST THE FACTS. Don't make things up. There's a lot of credulous and unwary readers out there that will believe anything they read, many because the are to lazy to sort the truth out for themselves. ...

I agree, MB! This is where Arnold Brown's book, Lizzie Borden: The Legend, the Truth, the Final Chapter, failed miserably. He listed it as non-fiction, yet it reads as fiction. Can't have it both ways!
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

User avatar
debbiediablo
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:42 am
Gender: Female
Real Name: Deborah
Location: Upper Midwest

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby debbiediablo » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:47 pm

twinsrwe wrote:
mbhenty wrote:...

The David Anthony revelation is something quite recent, 1985.

Some believe that Ruby Cameron made the story up in 1985. There is no record that Ruby mentioned the story to anyone in the past that I know of.

Ms Cameron could have known a lot more than we could ever guess, or she could have just been nuts. We probably will never know. ....

I agree, MB. It's difficult to believe that Lizzie/Lizbeth kept this secret until she was on her death bed, when she decided to tell, Ruby Cameron, a nurse, who really killed her father and step-mother. Ruby Cameron decided to keep her mouth forever, because she knew it implemented her own father and mother, but then decides, when she is 84-85 years old, that she just had to tell the story to the a newspaper! Why???

I found two newspaper articles on the Ruby Cameron story:

Weekly World News Mar 19, 1985
http://tinyurl.com/q8xqsp5

The Evening News Jan. 6, 1985
http://tinyurl.com/kmw8oyv


Oh dear. One of my kids loved the nuttiness of Weekly World News. I remember several of the front pages articles: "Bill and Hillary Adopt Space Alien" and "Baby Raised by Rattlensnakes."
DebbieDiablo

*´¨)
¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·'*
Even Paranoids Have Enemies


"Everything you want is on the other side of fear."

User avatar
Curryong
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:46 am
Gender: Female
Real Name: Rosalind
Location: Cranbourne, Australia

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby Curryong » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:04 am

Is Elvis still alive and running a 7/11 Store? Of course he'd be a bit long in the tooth by now, and is probably in an old folks home in Memphis, still keeping his secret!

patsy
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:02 pm
Gender: Female
Real Name: Pat
Location: IL

Re: Intro and New Book

Postby patsy » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:34 pm

I remember when Gramma told the Ruby story on this forum and really wanted to believe it. My thought was that if Lizzie or Bridget did not do the murders then who would be a good candidate for being able to access the house. David Anthony would fit the bill if he were in a relationship with Lizzie, but that's something that was lost with any of Ruby's supposed papers and her credibility.

Thanks for sharing the pictures of the Anthony summer home, mbhenty, and for the links, Twinsrwe. Nice thread you started, Quill.

Had a long post but lost it when I went to read the newspapers and it wouldn't let me come back. Darn!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest