Bridget's x-ray eyes

[Harry]

From Bridget's trial testimony, page 224:

"Q. After Mr. Borden went upstairs did you continue to remain in the kitchen until some one else came, or did you go away?
A. No, sir, I was washing the dishes at the sink, and Miss Lizzie came through.
Q. About how long was it after Mr. Morse went that Miss Lizzie Borden came?
A. I don't know how long it was. It was no more than five minutes, I don't think. I don't remember how the time was.
Q. When she came, into which room did she come? Where did you first see her?
A. The kitchen.
Q. From what room did she come?
A. From the sitting-room. "

The sink was located in the extreme northeast part of the house and according to the floor plans up against the east wall. The plans show you would have to be in this closet-like area to use the sink. How could Bridget possibly see which room Lizzie came into the kitchen from? This is the same problem Emma would have had when she says she saw Lizzie at the stove with the dress.

And while we're on Bridget, her window washing still has me wondering. According to Officer Hyde (Witness statements, page 38) Bridget was not specific at to what windows were to be washed.

"In talking to Bridget Sullivan on the above date [Aug. 4th] I asked her what time Mrs. Borden went upstairs. She said she thought it was a little before nine o’clock in the morning; and sometime after she came down for some pillow shams. And she said to me, “have you anything particular to do?” Bridget answered “No mam.” Mrs. Borden said “I would like you to wash those windows.” I went out and washed the windows, and never saw Mrs. Borden again alive.

We have discussed in the past that Bridget did not wash the kitchen windows.

Lizzie testified that Abby said she was going to close the door to the guest room as she was expecting company on Monday. Why wouldn't Abby have Bridget clean the windows in the guest room if it was so important that the room be as nice as possible for her guests?

[Doug]

Perhaps while Bridget was washing dishes in the sink room (her primary task during those minutes) she walked back and forth from the sink room to the kitchen one or more times and saw Lizzie come in then. Actually, the question asked of Bridget has two parts (remain in the kitchen or go away?) and it is not clear which question Bridget answered when she said, "No, sir...." If she answered the "remain in the kitchen" part she said no because she had gone to the sink room. If Bridget answered the "go away" part she said no because she remained in the kitchen area of the house though perhaps not exclusively in the kitchen itself.

[Allen]

Those are some very good questions you have raised Harry. It is unlikely that Bridget would have seen what room Lizzie came into the kitchen from if she was standing at the sink. I have read her testimony many times, and that never seemed odd to me until you pointed it out. I have thought there were many inconsistancies in her story that never added up to me. Bridget washed only the windows on the first floor. Why? Could it be because to go up on the second floor to do any window washing would cause her to stumble upon a body? Or did the Borden's usually take care of cleaning the windows in their own rooms? I for some reason have a hard time believing Bridget had anything to do with it though.

[Audrey]

You must have been able to see for miles and miles from that sink.... Emma saw Lizzie burning a dress while washing dishes and encouraged her all the way!

[Doug]

As for washing the windows in the guest room, Bridget washed the downstairs windows both inside and outside. To wash the guest room windows on the outside she would have to climb a ladder to the second floor and I don't believe that was mentioned in any questioning or testimony. Maybe Andrew asked one of his hired men to come over now and then to wash the upstairs windows on the outside and Lizzie, Emma, and Abby washed their own windows on the inside at the same time. I believe Bridget said at some point that she had few if any duties on the second floor of the house.

[Smudgeman]

Bridget did have some shifty eyes. Did she not recall what chair Lizzie was sitting in the kitchen? She sure was specific about rooms and positions of people huh?

[Kat]

Actually, it's interesting to note that nobody saw Lizzie burn the dress at all.
(I remember when a Forum member figured this out...)

Trial
Emma
1542
Q. Now will you tell the Court and the jury all that you saw or heard that morning in the kitchen?
A. I was washing dishes, and I heard my sister's voice and I turned round and saw she was standing at the foot of the stove, between the foot of the stove and the dining-room door. This dress was hanging on her arm and she says, "I think I shall burn this old dress up." Do you wish me to go on?

Q. Go right along.
A. I said, "Why don't you," or "You had

Page 1543 / i565

better," or "I would if I were you," or something like that, I can't tell the exact words, but it meant,---Do it. And I turned back and continued washing the dishes, and did not see her burn it and did not pay any more attention to her at that time.


--Maybe "turned around" and "turned back" are slang they use for stepping out and stepping back. Like a short-cut to what they really mean.

That's a good question about the guest room windows not being washed that day...if a guest was expected. And why not the parlour windows on the inside? Bridget specifically did not enter the parlour. That is where Abby might bring her Monday *guests* though, wouldn't she?

I've not ever been fully convinced that Bridget did clean all the windows which she said she did. She wasn't seen except for rinsing one exterior window, and her talk over the fence to the Kelly girl. My problem is that no one, after the crime was found out, said there was any water or muddy areas under the windows and that was when they were peering everywhere for clues as to how someone may have gotten into the house. I suppose someone double-checked this story, but who knows for sure?

[Harry]

Good point Doug. It's possible Bridget did walk back and forth a bit while doing the dishes. By the layout of the kitchen/hallway she would have had to enter the kitchen itself to see Lizzie enter by either the sitting or dining room doors. Bridget does say this:

"Q. After you had completed your breakfast what did you do?
A. I cleared off the dishes, etc., and commenced to wash them.
Q. Now during that time were you in any other room except the kitchen and dining-room?
A. No, sir; except going in the kitchen closet to put the things away, and so forth. Of course I had to go there, and the ice chest."

But later on she testifies that she took the dishes to the dining room not the kitchen (p226):

"Q. What did you go to doing when you came back into the kitchen?
A. I completed washing my dishes. Some of them was washed, and all of them wasn't, and I finished them and took them in the dining-room, and I got them completed, and Mrs. Borden was there.
Q. You will have to speak a little louder.
A. Mrs. Borden was in the dining-room as I was fixing my dining-room table, and she asked me if I had anything to do this morning. I said, No, not particular, if she had anything to do for me. She said she wanted the windows washed. I asked her how, and she said "inside and outside both, they are awful dirty."

Yes Kat, that's a strange thing for Bridget to do only the outside of the parlor windows. And this is after Abby said "inside and outside, both,"

I agree with you Kat as to a question of the number of windows Bridget claims she did. I don't believe she changed her dress after this chore and I can't see how she avoided getting wet. She used the dipper to toss the water on the windows to rinse them. Try tossing water in the air without getting some on yourself. Also she would have been hot and sweaty from this activity since it was humid if not blazing hot.

[Angel]

Regarding the burning of the dress: It is hard for me to think that Lizzie could be so naive that she wouldn't see how damning it would look for her to be burning a dress when the police were all over the house looking for evidence. And for her to announce that she was going to burn it seems even more naive because it would call attention to what she was doing. If she was trying to hide evidence it would seem more likely that she would slip down when no one was in the kitchen and get rid of it secretly. So, does anyone think she could have been deliberately trying to implicate herself because she either subconsciously wanted to get caught, or that she was taking "the rap" to protect someone else?

[Allen]

Didn't Alice Russell see Lizzie burning at least some parts of the dress?She saw her tearing it up to burn the pieces in the stove, I just checked the testimony,nevermind.

[Allen]

I think she was burning it with full knowledge of Alice Russell and Emma because she wanted them to believe it was an innocent act. Emma knew about the dress. If it just mysteriously came up missing I think that would look even more suspicious.

[Kat]

I think Lizzie thought Alice had gone out. She was out, or not in the room, it's hard to tell which. She just sort of came upon Lizzie as Lizzie was tearing the dress. I think Lizzie and Emma then ennacted this little impromptu scene for Alice's benefit.
This was the first morning Bridget was not there: Sunday.
The dress was already in the kitchen closet- Lizzie didn't bring it down right out in the open, or anything, that Alice saw her do that..

Later, when Alice implies she has to tell something about this, at least to their private detective, Emma says this part scared her stiff.

[Smudgeman]

I don't know about her shielding herself with Andrew's coat. Do you mean she wore the coat, or held it up while swinging away? I am not an expert on blood splatter, but how could she avoid getting blood on her shoes or feet? At the very least, she would have tracked some blood through the house.

[Smudgeman]

You make it sound so simple and effortless. We don't know if Andrew was attacked standing or lying down, and in the heat of a brutal attack, the assailant could not have come out squeaky clean even with a coat on. As for Bridget washing windows, she very well could have got out the bucket of water and whatnot, but maybe she didn't wash them at all?

[Smudgeman]

I have read the medical testimony and statements of those who were there at the time, but wouldn't you agree they did a terrible job of investigating and gathering evidence? I am sure their findings are not "the gospel". I am keeping and open mind here, isn't that what this forum is for? We agree to disagree

[Allen]

Well saying there had to have been a lot of blood splatter is a double edged sword. To say that Lizzie would have left bloody footprints if she killed them it is kind of pointless. Because that would be saying that anyone who did it would have had to leave bloody footprints, and yet no one did. Whatever applies to Lizzie applies to any suspect. Lizzie cannot be covered in gore, but someone walking around on the street afterwards is mysteriously free from noticable bloodsplatter and is not noticed by anyone.I cannot believe that there could have been that much blood splatter on the killer. If it was indeed someone other than Lizzie how would someone covered in blood splatter walk down the streets of Fall River unnoticed to make his/her get away? I think Lizzie did it, but exactly how she got away with it I keep changing my mind about. Did she wear the coat? Did she change her dress? Did she wear the gossamer? So many what ifs.We really cannot say for sure how Andrew was attacked. There were no witnesses, so that always raises some doubt even to the official findings. The only accounts we have about what happened in that house at the time of the killings are the words of Lizzie and Bridget, and one or the other, or both, could've been lieing.

[Smudgeman]

I never meant to imply that Lizzie would leave bloody footprints. I am still on the fence as to WHO did the dirty deed, however I do believe Lizzie and Bridget know who did. I still stand by that the murderer had some blood on them at some time, that's all.

[Kat]

If the coat was there and a non-family member killed Andrew, they could have used the coat to shield them as well? That would protect their clothing as Allen asks how did a murderer walk down the street bloody. But does the outsider murderer say, pardon me while I try on your coat and then lets loose with an axe?
Does the murderer from outside wear a waterproof to the house?
Allen is correct that if Lizzie did it and left no bloody shoe prints, then the same can be said of an outsider. That's reasonable.
But what about Abby?
Andrew's coat wasn't used for that, was it?
Let's say it was.
Maybe Andrew didn't wear that coat that day. There's not a Bridget or Morse or anyone saying he did. Did the coat survive 2 murders? Or was there a different covering for the first one. If so, why not re-use the first murder covering? Less stuff to get rid of, eh?

Supposedly that coat was kept in the dining room, so maybe the killer crept in at the side door at 9:30* (because that's when Bridget went outside to start washing windows) saw the Prince Albert coat in the dining room as they cut through following in the wake of Abby who had gone upatairs to the guest room, put on the coat and killed Abby- and then kept it on while hiding in the closet, and left no blood trail, waited an hour or so and came and killed Andrew with the coat on , finally taking it off and putting it under Andrew's head?

*Below the knees* would be bloodied during the killing of Abby, I think- and that's what the experts said at the time. That probably includes shoes and/or feet.

*(And Abby was upstairs around 9, so where was she until 9:30?)

[Allen]

Is this another example of Bridget's x-ray eyes? Or am I just being too nitpicky?

John Morse trial page 133:

Q. Did you remain in the sitting-room until some one came down stairs?
A. Yes, Sir.

Q.Was the door between that room and the kitchen open or closed at that time, if you recall?
A. I think it was closed to the best of my recollection

Page 134:

Q. Did Mr.and Mrs. Borden remain in the sitting-room until you started away or not?
A.Mr. Borden was in and out of the room several times. Mr. and Mrs. Borden were both in and out.Mr. Borden was there most of the time.

Q.I didn't quite understand you.
A. Mr. and Mrs. Borden were out and in several times, but Mr. Borden was there most of the time.

Q. Did you notice where Mr. Borden went when he went out of the sitting-room?
A. I don't know anymore than he went out of the east door,out into the kitchen. I don't know where he went from there.

Bridget Sullivan trial testimony page 207:

Q. Upon this morning what was the condition of the door between the dining-room and the sitting-room, open or shut--- during the morning I mean?
A. Shut.

Q.I do not mean when you first came down, but during the morning,if you know?
A.Well, as far as I remember it was closed; I don't remember to see it open.

Q. The door between the dining-room and sitting-room?
A. Between the sitting-room and dining-room?

Q.Yes.
A Well that was always open.

Q.And what door did you have in mind when you said it was always closed?
A.The door leading from the kitchen to the sitting-room.


Bridget Sullivan trial testimony page 209:

Q.How long after Mrs. Borden came down was it before Mr. Borden came?
A.Well, no more than five minutes, I don't think.

Q. What did he do when he came downstairs?
A.He came down stairs;he went into the sitting room and put a key on the shelf in the sitting room.

Q. What key was it he put on the shelf in the sitting room?
A.The key of his bedroom door.

Q.Where did he ordinarily keep that?
A. In the sitting room.

Q.On the shelf.
A. Yes, sir.

Q.Did you notice what he did after he brought his key down and put it there?
A. He came out into the kitchen;he put a dressing coat on, as far as I think,and went outdoors.

If the door between the kitchen and the sitting room was closed, how could Bridget have seen Andrew do anything after he walked into the dining room? How did she know he even went to the sitting room at all?

[Audrey]

After reading this post again..

In Harry's original post the testimony Abby is said to have stated "wash those windows".

Those versus the.

Perhaps she and Bridget had talked earlier about washing only a specific set of windows.

If Abby was instructing her to wash all the windows she would have said "the" windows, but if they had discussed certain windows earlier she might have said "those" windows..

[john]

Surprisingly, about so simple a thing as an instruction to wash the windows, there is severely conflicting testimony about the instructions. Bridget said she had nothing to do especially (a thing I'd never say if I were a maid,) and was asked to wash "the" windows. Now this was something that she normally did that day anyway (according to some testimony,) so why would she have to be asked? Lizzie said she asked Bridget what she was doing when she saw Bridget with the pail, brush and handle (duh.) Uncle John said that he heard Mrs. Borden instruct Bridget to wash the windows, yet according to Bridget this instruction happened after Mr. Morse was gone.
Look back to what Kat said about testimony of the individuals alive after the happening.

[Kat]

what did I say?

You say that Bridget was instructed to do something she "normally did that day anyway (according to some testimony)"- do we know Bridget washed windows every Thursday or is this a slight exageration?
I think this is a grey area based on what Mrs. Churchill says, but she doesn't really know. It's better to be *iffy* about something like this rather than making a proclamtion and citing "some testimony"- because it can confuse people. It's still open to interpretation.

[john]

True, but it was stated that she washed the windows every Thursday.

[Kat]

According to the testimony, Bridget said Lizzie asked her- not Lizzie saying she asked Bridget what she was doing.


Inquest
Lizzie
59
Q. Did she go out after a brush before your father went away?
A. I think so.
Q. Did you say anything to Maggie?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you say anything about washing the windows?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you speak to her?
A. I think I told her I did not want any breakfast.
Q. You do not remember of talking about washing the windows?
A. I don't remember whether I did or not; I don't remember it. Yes, I remember; yes, I asked her to shut the parlor blinds when she got through, because the sun was so hot.

______

Prelim
Bridget
12
Q. When you started to go out in the barn, do you remember how you found the door then?
A. Miss Lizzie came through the kitchen then, as I started to go out in the barn with a pail. She was at the back door.

Q. You had the pail?
A. Yes. I was outside. She was at the back door. She wanted to know if I was to wash windows. I said yes. I told her she need not hook the door, for I would be around there; but I told her she could hook it if she wanted to, and I would get the water in the barn.

Q. Where was she standing at that time?
A. In the back entry.

Q. Had she said anything about hooking the door?
A. No Sir.

Q. How came you to say that to her?
A. I thought she might hook it, and I could not get in. She was standing in the back entry then.

Q. How near the screen door was she then?
A. Pretty near it; not very far from it.

Q. Was you going out to get your pail then, or handle.
A. The handle.

Q. What did you say you said about getting the water?
A. I said I would get the water in the barn.

Q. What did she say?
A. Nothing.

......
13+
Q. So the next time you saw Lizzie after she was eating breakfast was when you were out in the yard. Where were you when you saw her? You saw her eating whatever breakfast she ate in the kitchen?
A. I went out in the back yard, and left her in the kitchen. Then I

Page 14

next saw her when I started to wash the windows; I was outside the screen door.

Q. Had you got the stick then?
A. No Sir. I had the pail and brush and was just outside the screen door.

Q. What did you say to her about the door?
A. She asked me if I was to wash windows. I says "yes. You no need to lock the screen door. I will be around here. You may lock it if you want to. I will get the water in the barn." She did not say anything to that.

Q. Did she stay there to the screen door, or go away from it?
A. I do not know what she done. I went into the barn.

Q. When you came out of the barn, did you see her?
A. No Sir.

____

This may seem nit-picky but you do have a good grasp of the case- your posting should reflect that. Little *errors* build up.