Lizzie Borden Society Forum

The show on the Biography Channel mentioned that Lizzie was actually the third daughter. Apparently a little girl had been born between Emma and Lizzie.

Does anyone know when she was born, how long she lived, and what she died of? Would the death have been before Lizzie's time?

Lynn[/list]

Alice Esther Borden was born on May 3, 1856, the middle child of Andrew and Sarah Borden. She died on March 10, 1858 of hydrocephalus or the pressure of fluids on the brain. Lizzie was born on July 19, 1860 a little over two years after Alice's death.

There was a middle daughter but she died early. Right after birth kind of thing

Emma, dead Alice, and Lizzie's first cousin George Harrington, also died of something to do with a brain disease. The only child of Lurana, Andrew's sister, was 9 years old when he died, 1867.
(Rebello, 3)

It makes one wonder if there was some type of brain problem passed through the Borden family?

Dejada2004 @ Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:28 am wrote:Alice Esther Borden was born on May 3, 1856, the middle child of Andrew and Sarah Borden. She died on March 10, 1858 of hydrocephalus or the pressure of fluids on the brain. Lizzie was born on July 19, 1860 a little over two years after Alice's death.

Thank you very much!

hydrocephalus is associated with spina bifidia, and I do believe its also hereditary. It has quite a range of debilitating effects, sometimes death in infancy, sometimes retardation, sometimes not. But I dont think they really knew how to treat it very well 100 years ago much less so during Lizzie's day.

Hello. I watched that same Biography show and I didn't know Emma and Lizzie had a sister either until then. I wondered about her too. Thanks a lot
Dejada2004 for the info.

Kat @ Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:09 pm wrote:Emma, dead Alice, and Lizzie's first cousin George Harrington, also died of something to do with a brain disease. The only child of Lurana, Andrew's sister, was 9 years old when he died, 1867.
(Rebello, 3)

It makes one wonder if there was some type of brain problem passed through the Borden family?

I did a search on it, pretty interesting stuff.


Causes of Hydrocephalus

A variety of medical problems can cause hydrocephalus. In many children the problem is there at birth - this kind of hydrocephalus is referred to as congenital. Most cases of congenital hydrocephalus are thought to be caused by a complex interaction of genetic and environmental factors. Hydrocephalus that develops later in life in some children, and even in adults, but is caused by a condition that existed at birth, is still considered a form of congenital hydrocephalus. When hydrocephalus develops after birth and is caused by a factor such as head injury, meningitis or a brain tumor, it is termed acquired hydrocephalus. Parents must not blame themselves for their child's hydrocephalus. In almost all cases the circumstances contributing to a child's condition are beyond the parent's control.

For more info, click here:

http://www.hydroassoc.org/information/infant.html

And click here for info on Adult Onset Hydrocephalus

http://www.neurosurgerytoday.org/what/p ... /adult.asp

Congenital hydrocephalus? Hey! I know this one – intimately, shall we say. (I should…I’ve had it for a little less than forty years now.)

In my case, I suppose you could say it was a gift given on account of impatience; I simply did not care to be conventional and wait a whole 40 weeks to make my grand entrance into the world. The approximate “gestational age” of ye humble scribbler at the time of the aforementioned entry onto the world’s stage was somewhere in the general neighborhood of 26 and one-half weeks (give or take half a block). Aforementioned impatient youngster weighed in at…lessee…carry the four, subtract two, and divide by the square root of 6.75… 51 ounces – just about the right size for an average shoe box, actually.

As I understand it (said he, digging furiously thru the pocket lint and dust bunnies which reside somewhere upstairs in ye olde gray matter) one cause of congenital hydrocephalus – it can occur when absorbent tissues which are normally present at the base of the brain – or somewhere in the brain, as I think it would be at or near the base but cannot be sure at the moment – do not fully form for the simple reason of prematurity. (This is one example of what impatience will get you!)

The resulting lack (or deficiency) of these tissues permits fluid to accumulate around the brain, causing a buildup of intracranial pressure, which is not a walk in the park, to say the least. (I’m on a first-name basis with each and every one of those “classic” neurological symptoms listed on one of the pages Susan posted there.)

One method of controlling hydrocephalus –congenital or otherwise – is thru the implantation of an antero-ventricular shunt (a fancy word for a pump) and several feet of tubing whose purpose is to carry the built-up fluid away from the brain and …get rid of it.

It works pretty well – and when it’s not working, I know it pretty quick: headaches, blurred vision – all those buggersome neurological alarm clocks go off at once.

Funny thing – they actually told me years ago that there might come a time when the brain/body might “obsolete” the shunt, so to speak –
the absorbent tissues would finally begin to work properly. Lately I’ve begun to wonder about that because the time between “fixes” (neurosurgical odysseys you might say) is getting longer and longer between; the MTBF for one of these shunt buggers – about every seven years it was time for a tune-up, and that ran almost like clockwork starting 39 years ago this month. It’s now approaching eleven years – or possibly thirteen, I only remember that I got sick on my mother’s birthday the last time! I know I was in my mid-twenties, somewhere I haven't been for a very...long...time.

Hospital stays for these things are not what they used to be either – the last, I had the surgery on the 25th of the month, and was at home the 27th….

Time to lower the sail....

Oh, for more than you probably ever wanted to know about hydrocephalus, a peek at http://www.clevelandclinic.org/ couldn't hurt; just type that nasty greek word in the search box; should find more than a hundred references.

Wow Doug-Oh! I'm amazed and impressed, not only with your attitude but with your wonderful grasp of the intricasies of the medical condition and your acceptence of it.

Anyway, I had not much knowledge on the subject and you guys helped me in that department.
My aunty had a shunt after a brain bang which had to be replaced over time. I remember her shaved head. She never complained, ever.

Doug,

I too am amazed. And your sense of humor is great:) Thank you for sharing your personal story, I aplaud the fact you didn't mind sharing it with us:)

Isn't modern medicine wonderful?

I had a friend who was pregnant with her child the same time I was with mine we developed right along together every step even got the ultra sounds the same day. Her showed that her baby had liquid on the brain from the ultrasound.....they said it might have done something genetics at that time...

They ixed it in the womb somehow she had a surgery they went into the womb and did I dont know something like they do with spinal bifida babies they can do surgery on a fetus while in the womb but very risky...and the baby grew fine no problems.

Amazing.really.

Doug, let me join in the chorus of praise for your attitude. You have always been a cheerful voice on this forum.

I don't know anything about your physical condition (I'm no Dr. Bowen ) but it appears you have learned how to make lemonade after being dealt some lemons. Good for you.

Harry @ Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:59 am wrote:Doug, let me join in the chorus of praise for your attitude.

Ditto. I'm really impressed with how easily you talk about it, and what a great attitude you have.

Okay, okay…y’all gotta quit with this – I’m blushing! (You have no idea how hard it is to clean that off a keyboard, hehe.) I do appreciate the thoughts though.

As far as I can tell – and this applies to 'most any situation really – attitude is really important. Generally, I take my cues from Churchill, who probably said it best in the House of Commons, June 4th, 1940:
"...we shall not flag or fail. …we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender...."

Victory may be long in coming, but the important thing is that the fight (figuratively speaking) must go on. If with the setting sun, beset as we may be with trials, tribulations, aggravations, or whatever the day has held – if at the close of day we are able to truthfully say nothing more than “I have done my best,” then that in itself is a victory, the success or failure question becomes irrelevant. To do one's best, after all, is honorable. The courage begins with the resolve to do the same the next day, and the next “to the last syllable of recorded time” (to thief a phrase from Shakespeare.)

“The weed of crime bears bitter fruit,” Orson Welles used to say on radio. Self-pity yields an equally bitter brew, you might say. So I try to keep away from that. It’s much more rewarding (and fun) to spend the day’s energies in other ways – even at that most-despised activity -work.

Okay these nickel boxes of soap do not make very good platforms, so I’ll climb down! (That "Wax Philosophique” is slippery, so watch your steps.)

It’s difficult to say about Alice. I have a feeling though that medical science of the time (mid-century) may not have been advanced enough to properly treat or even understand what hydrocephalus was. The irony there is that within ten years of her birth, medical science would grow by leaps and bounds, allowing battlefield surgeons for instance to effectively treat gunshot wounds to the head – using astoundingly “modern” methods. Harry, you may have heard of the medical book I’m thinking of, the Manual of Confederate Military Surgery by Dr. J.J. Chisolm.) Wonderfully interesting book, that one.

Lessee… I’ve heard of that procedure you’re referring to Nona, but cannot for the life of me think of the name! It does amaze me that they are able to correct it that early.

Kat – the head-shaving was the part of it that I most hated. When I first had any revisions done, they’d take off all my hair. The past twenty years or so tho, they’ve only stripped one little spot right over the shunt - much kinder, especially when it’s cold!

I think I'll hush before the fruit begins to fly.

Well Doug, this certainly didn't do anything to your
brain functions, you write so well and intelligently.
I am now reading a book "Your Best Life Now" by
Joel Osteen, I just Love him, it is the same premise
as you are conveying, Attitude is so important, and you are a shining example of that, Thank You!

doug65oh @ Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:50 pm wrote:Generally, I take my cues from Churchill, who probably said it best in the House of Commons, June 4th, 1940:
"...we shall not flag or fail. …we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender...."

Churchill, rehearsing that speech: "And we shall hit them on the head with beer bottles, which is all we've really got."

I've long since forgotten where I read that, but it's supposed to be a true anecdote.

Have a Guinness!

Lynn

Osteen?? I've heard the name I think, Nancie. It really is true...attitude matters most. (Some days, the brain function is debatable, tho; I usually find myself saying "Now why didn't I think of that...yesterday!:lol:) Eh...such is life.

Lynn - I'd heard that myself, but have no idea whether the story is true. I wouldn't be a bit surprised though! (My favorite - which apparently is true - was his reply to...I think it was Nancy Astor, who ever-so-thoughtfully admitted that if she were Mrs. Churchill she would give serious thought to poisoning his tea... "Well, now Madame, if I were your husband, I would drink it."

I hate being late jumping on the bandwagon, but....Thank you, Doug, for being so candid with us, your attitude is an inspiration! It reminds me of a friend of mine who taught young adults, who were never considered handicapped, but, handicapable. He is head of his schools job development program now and helps the higher functioning kids to get jobs, it is a joy to watch how his attitude about them rubs off on them and gives them confidence to get the jobs that they want. Little miracles in everyday life.

Late?? isn't it only just before 8:00 where you are Susan??
Funny thing - one of the first jobs I had in college was as a "Test Proctor/Activity Assistant" working with incoming freshmen who were physically or "learning challenged" in one or another way. (I had been thru the program myself so knew the drill.) The job itself was simple - all I had to do was observe and make notes; what we looked for for instance, were things like "How does this person respond in test situations?" (blood, sweat, tears, fidgets, etc.) and if they asked for help at all, what was the nature of the help given, etc. My reports were turned over to the pros. who used the information to formulate individual assistive plans, you might say. It was one of the most rewarding jobs I've ever had.