On the Flickr photo site on mondo there's a photo of Fall River, but not Fall River. Is that Providence?
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Moderator: Adminlizzieborden
I agree that there is no proof that Lizzie was a lesbian and I have no problem with people pointing that out. What does bother me is when people point out that there is no proof she was gay then turn right around and act as if there was proof she was straight. There isn't any proof of that either. Some posters seem to think that being straight is a given fact. It's not. We don't know what she was or wasn't. We can only give our opinions on the matter.mbhenty @ Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:48 pm wrote:As seen on Mondo:
Good for you Stefani: Glad to see someone standing up for Lizzie and publicly proclaiming that there is no proof that Lizzie had a lesbian affair with Nance O'Neil.
There is no proof of that or that Lizzie was a lesbian. These are scenarios conjured up over the years by so called "Borden Scholars" who probably have hidden Freudian desires themselves and express them by placing Lizzie on the same train.If you are guessing at it for sake of discussion or want to use it in fiction, well that's your right, but to outright proclaim that this is Lizzie's Lover or that Lizzie was infact, Lesbian, does Lizzie or Lesbians no service.
Don't get me wrong, this in not a social comment on the Gay Life. But, if I were gay I may be offended by the constant referral to Lizzie as a Lesbian, as if it were a disgraceful thing. What happens behind closed doors among two adults is of no business to anyone whether religous or governmental. And unless anyone has proof that Lizzie was gay, let them all stop guessing and making proclamations that Nance O'neil was Lizzie's lover. And if she was......., good for her.![]()
I disagree. I think one should and does assume heterosexuality unless proof is offered otherwise. The percentage of people who are gay is between 5 and 10%. The odds a person is straight is then about 90%. We cannot offer opinions about a person's sexual orientation as it is really none of our business.DWilly @ Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:33 pm wrote:
I agree that there is no proof that Lizzie was a lesbian and I have no problem with people pointing that out. What does bother me is when people point out that there is no proof she was gay then turn right around and act as if there was proof she was straight. There isn't any proof of that either. Some posters seem to think that being straight is a given fact. It's not. We don't know what she was or wasn't. We can only give our opinions on the matter.
zactly! Nor is your friend defined by being an office manager.Audrey @ Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:53 pm wrote:
A dear friend of mine is an office manager. I am not an office manager.
While I do agree with you that many people tend to assume someone is straight I disagree with you saying we "should" assume someone is straight. Why assume anything? To me that shows bias. Are there other things I should "assume" about other people? What happens when you turn out to be wrong about the person?Stefani @ Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:46 pm wrote:I disagree. I think one should and does assume heterosexuality unless proof is offered otherwise. The percentage of people who are gay is between 5 and 10%. The odds a person is straight is then about 90%. We cannot offer opinions about a person's sexual orientation as it is really none of our business.DWilly @ Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:33 pm wrote:
I agree that there is no proof that Lizzie was a lesbian and I have no problem with people pointing that out. What does bother me is when people point out that there is no proof she was gay then turn right around and act as if there was proof she was straight. There isn't any proof of that either. Some posters seem to think that being straight is a given fact. It's not. We don't know what she was or wasn't. We can only give our opinions on the matter.
Some theorize and use Lizzie's friendship with theatre folk and her spinsterhood to assume that is code for lesbian. It isn't. As I noted in my talk two years ago in Fall River for the Fall River Historical Society and the First CC, theatre people are a tolerant and accepting group. If Lizzie was interested in them, they would be interested in her, no questions asked about her past. They might be the one group that would take her in without judgment---even though she is shunned by the city of her birth and her former friends.
So her hanging out with Nance doesn't mean anything other than she liked theatre people. And that is all we can assume.
theebmonique @ Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:18 pm wrote:I am not sure that someone else on the forum hasn't already asked the seller of the Nance photo about the lesbian declaration, but I decided to write them anyway. Hopefully there will be a response.
Hello,
This is great picture of Nance. What is your proof that Nance and Lizzie Borden were lesbian lovers ? I have searched, but have found nothing definite so far. Would you mind please, directing me to where/how you found this information to be true ?
Thank you very much !
Tracy
Tracy...