What Dr. Bowen Burned

KT72 · Post by **KT72** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:11 pm

Sorry if this had been discussed before, but I wonder if anyone has ever brought up the contents of the note Bowen threw into the stove?...

It sounds ominous; but remember that Lizzie did ask him to send a telegram to Emma. The paper he burned may have just been related to that - a reminder to himself, or perhaps notes or a "trial run" or what he wanted the telegram to say. In such hectic circumstances, I know I would probably need to write things down to keep my thoughts straight.

Does anyone know how telegrams were sent back then? Because I'm also thinking it could have been that Bowen wrote it down for the telegram people (whatever they were called) to copy it into telegram form. And it might not be any more sinister than that.

Are there any other opinions on this? Have any scholars or authors speculated on what that paper contained? I haven't seen any so far............

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:24 pm

Here are two prior threads you could check out, they have a lot of information in the discussions that might answer some of your questions. The second link has many pages of posts, but there is some good information in there.

viewtopic.php?t=1195&start=0

viewtopic.php?t=763&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=75

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:31 am

Thanks Missy!

I think your reasonable theory about what Bowen may have burned is refreshing, KT72.

KT72 · Post by **KT72** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:20 am

Allen and Kat, thanks for the replies

I'll check out those threads.........

lisbeth1927 · Post by **lisbeth1927** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:25 pm

Hello. First post. Just wanted to mention I recall reading somewhere Dr. Bowen, when asked bout the torn paper he was burning said something to the effect: "Oh, it's about my daughter going through somewhere". Something like that. So it could not have been relative to his sending Emma a telegram. But I don't believe it was what he said it was. I think he was covering up - at least the contents of the note. Given the circumstances why would he have such a thing in his possession (assuming it was HIS property and not a scrap of paper found on the premises). To have a scrap of paper, with writing indicating something about Dr. Bowen's daughter going tthrough somewhere near the kitchen stove at 92 Second Street on that day at that time and that he, Dr. Bowen, should chose to burn it at that time, in that place, is preposterous to me. As illogical as Victoria Lincoln's surmise that the messge was to Abby from Andrew saying the coast is clear, Lizzie & Emma wil never know (in context of Abby meeting him at the bank for a property transfer) seems more feasible than the "my daughter going through somewhere" bit.

Could it be this: By Lizzie's own testimony she disclosed she had written to Emmain Fairhaven ("and the letter was returned" - because Emma came back on the 4th). Could Lizzie have written something to the effect that something was going on - involving Abby and Andrew and money and property and she was keeping a close eye on things. If she wrote down her thoughts once, then crumpled up the paper for whatever reason and tossed it in her waste-basket in her room, and wrote another which was subsequently mailed (and returned) - we still have her first note crumpled in her wastebasket when the police were coming thru the house, questioning and searching. Could she have retrieved it from her wastebasket when alone in her room, but not wanting to keep it on her person gave it to Dr. Bowen to destroy? "Oh Doctor, if they find this note they may think badly of me. Would you please burn it up?" "Why of course, Lizzie. I'll do anything I can for you." Subsequently, when asked if she had looked for a note from ABBY, she said others had and that "it must have been burned up." Lizzie had a tendency to create her lies based on some factual reality.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:35 pm

Welcome to the forum Lisbeth1927 !

You seeme to be very familiar with the case. Do you recall where you read the information about the 'daughter' note ? I have not heard that before. Maybe someone else here on the forum will know of it's origin.

Again....welcome !

Tracy...

KT72 · Post by **KT72** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:43 pm

Nice to meet you, Lisbeth 1927, thanks for the reply

I do recall Bowen saying that about his daughter.

But........it was a few scraps of paper, right? So Bowen might have scribbled the telegram on whatever paper he had available on his person at the time - i.e., the note from his own daughter. Like nowadays when we need to write something in a hurry, without any preparation, and grab whatever scrap paper we can rummage out of pocket or purse. At least, I know I'm that way

I enjoy hearing these other theories, though. It really could be anything and it's fun to speculate...................If my theory is not correct, I feel that the appearance of the name "Emma" on that paper must have been VERY sinister indeed...........................

BTW referring to the Abby note: Could there really have been a note, and it got mixed in with whatever Bowen destroyed?......So many possibilities!!

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:42 pm

I believe the quote of Bowen regarding the note, "It's about my daughter going through somewhere", was in Victoria Lincoln's book. I read that book several years ago, and I'm pretty sure it was in there.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:43 pm

This is from The Witness Statements page 6:

After leaving her, I went down in the kitchen where was Dr. Bowen, Asst. Fleet, Dr. Dolan, Bridget, and several others. Dr. Bowen had scraps of paper in his hand, on which there was some writing. He and I spoke about them, and he tried to put some of them together. He said "it is nothing, it is something about, I think, my daughter going through somewhere." If I recollect correctly, it was addressed to Emma; but about that I am not sure. The Doctor then said " it does not amount to anything", and taking the lid off the kitchen stove, he dropped the pieces in. There was very little fire in the stove, and the ashes which were on top looked as though paper has been burned there.

Here is the link to a similar discussion on the forum.

viewtopic.php?t=1441&start=0

lisbeth1927 · Post by **lisbeth1927** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:41 pm

Yes, it was the Witness Statements. Thank you.

You people are GOOD! and FAST!

There is sooooooooo much in the topics and threads here it is quite overwhelming. I notice the more one digs, the more redundancy surfaces but that is to be expected. A thought or theory occurs to a poster and they create a thread, not knowing it was hatched, hashed & rehashed right here - maybe a month ago, maybe two years ago. Few I think have the time to search the archives - it's quite time consuming. But you know what? If you are going to spend a couple hours reading a book on this case, you might as spend a couple hours searching the archives here because it's absolutely wonderful! It truly is like a "library" and makes it so easy for people doing research. Imagine how the early authors would have loved this instead of traveling to libraries all over (or courthouses) to get access to this information. The digital age sure makes a difference in the literary research!

I will try to bring up NEW information I've not come across here (as yet) so that you afficionados will not get too bored with me. But I doubt it will be "new" to many of you.

I've loved the Lizzie case since the 1980's when I began collecting books, magazines, maps, emphera (sp) on the Bordens and Fall River. And yes, I've stayed at the B&B many, many times over the years. It's wonderful and a "must do" for anyone seriously interested in Lizzie Borden. I used to live in Boston and drove down to Fall River lots of times to do my own research.

Thank you for the warm welcome. :)

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:12 pm

lisbeth1927 @ Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:41 pm wrote:Yes, it was the Witness Statements. Thank you.

You people are GOOD! and FAST!

There is sooooooooo much in the topics and threads here it is quite overwhelming. I notice the more one digs, the more redundancy surfaces but that is to be expected. A thought or theory occurs to a poster and they create a thread, not knowing it was hatched, hashed & rehashed right here - maybe a month ago, maybe two years ago. Few I think have the time to search the archives - it's quite time consuming. But you know what? If you are going to spend a couple hours reading a book on this case, you might as spend a couple hours searching the archives here because it's absolutely wonderful! It truly is like a "library" and makes it so easy for people doing research. Imagine how the early authors would have loved this instead of traveling to libraries all over (or courthouses) to get access to this information. The digital age sure makes a difference in the literary research!

I will try to bring up NEW information I've not come across here (as yet) so that you afficionados will not get too bored with me. But I doubt it will be "new" to many of you.

I've loved the Lizzie case since the 1980's when I began collecting books, magazines, maps, emphera (sp) on the Bordens and Fall River. And yes, I've stayed at the B&B many, many times over the years. It's wonderful and a "must do" for anyone seriously interested in Lizzie Borden. I used to live in Boston and drove down to Fall River lots of times to do my own research.

Thank you for the warm welcome. :)

I posted the links to the other discussions because I think there can be some helpful information posted that you might find interesting, and that might answer some questions you had. But by all means add to it, I'm all for hearing your own opinions and theories. I don't think adding your own opinion to something that has already been discussed is redudant at all. After all you weren't around to give it at the time, but now you are

. I don't even think rediscussing something many times is redudant, because it might bring out something new each time. Oh yes, and sorry for being rude and not welcoming you to the forum.

Welcome to the forum, and I would love to hear about your stays at the B&B!

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:09 pm

Yes, Lisbeth1927..there are several members here who are so great with looking things up quickly ! We are so lucky to have them. We have several wonderful writers as well. Other members are great with providing a local perspective, and still others are very good at ferreting out 'new' things that are fake. Such a diverse group we are !

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:37 am

I agree with Missy about the hashing and rehashing! It's never enough as far as I'm concerned!!

I can talk about this case all day!