Memorable Quotes

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:40 pm

I'm looking over the written documents for memorable quotes by Lizzie or others worthy of cross stitch and calligraphy effort! I know there must be many. So far I only have Lizzie from the Inquest:

1. (Lizzie) "It depends upon one's idea of cordiality, perhaps."

2. "I decline to answer"

3. "Because I wanted to"

4. "I can't do anything in a minute"

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:02 pm

Churchill - Inquest:
(Lizzie said) "Oh Mrs. Churchill, do come over, someone has killed Father."

Tracy...

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:05 pm

hmmmm... lessee here...

H. M. Knowlton, closing for the Commonwealth.

"I do the sex no injustice."
"We must face this case as men, not as gallants."

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:07 pm

Hurray- this is the stuff!! Am getting out my embroidery hoops!
Got quotes?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:08 pm

Gotta be:

Lizzie: What day?

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:16 pm

That's a very good one Harry !

Lizzie (inquest): I did not choose to call her mother.

Tracy...

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:16 pm

Some Lizzie-isms

I did not choose to call her mother.

So far as I have ever had any chance of judging.

Really I don't know; I am away so much myself.

I don't know it- I don't know what your name is.

Lizzie's inquest testimony is chock full of them. Poor Knowlton's head must have been spinning after questioning her.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:20 pm

I also LOVE this one:

Somehow, it justs hits me funny. Lizzie had quite a way of just putting a liitle icy "edge" on her answers. like

"I told you that yesterday."
or

Q. What was his position?
A. Lying down.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:38 pm

Tracy, we crossed paths on that one "I did not choose to call her mother."

That, perhaps, sums up Lizzie the best

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:46 pm

We have great timing Harry !

Shelley...I love your idea of cross-stitching the Lizzie quotes. I'd love to have a quilt with each square being a different Lizzie-ism.

Tracy...

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:49 pm

I have done so many of these over the years as gifts for friends but I have none of my own. The last one I did was for the president of the British Dracula Society (of which I am a member)

"The Blood is the Life"- I believe I have a photo of that one. I thought I might do them for the Second Street giftshop. I also do framed tombstone rubbings of interest.

I am also interested in other quotes from the Borden case- not only "Lizzisms".

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:54 pm

"I pray your Honors' judgment." and yet another, uttered variously by both sides: "I do not care for that."

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:23 am

I do not know how to answer you any better than that.

I am telling the truth as nearly as I know it.

It was not Maggie or anyone who worked for father.

diana · Post by **diana** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:26 am

And where the different persons in the house were you didn't know?
No, sir, except Mr. Borden and Lizzie in the sitting-room.

... Bridget's trial testimony.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:51 am

What a fun idea!

Alice Russell, Inquest: "they would like to have been cultured girls"

Emma Borden, Inquest: "we always spoke"

Emma Borden, Trial: "You have not destroyed that old dress yet; why don't you?"

Lizzie, Inquest: "I can't answer you any better now than I did before."

"I told you all I did."

"I ate my pears."

"I never eat any breakfast."

"I don't know, their heads were gone, that is all."

"I told those men that were at the house that I had had fleas, that is all."

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:25 am

oh pshaw

Bridget Sullivan

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:10 am

Bobbie, where did you get the "It was not Maggie or anyone who worked for father?"
We've been looking for that one for a year.

Since my fave is taken: "What day?"
I will add:
"...that has always been a mystery."- Lizzie

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:49 am

How about "I don't like the girl" (I forget who said that in a witness statement-one of the police officers...

I LOVElove
Oh, Pshaw!, "I never eat any breakfast." and
"...that has always been a mystery."-
Perfect for embroidery. There must be more nuggets.
I think molasses cookies should be on everybody's breakfast menu!

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:41 pm

"I don't like the girl" was the remark made I believe to Marshal Hilliard by Philip Harrington. The attribution in the Witness Statements is a bit unclear, but it was Harrington who initially questioned Lizzie I think, not long after he arrived.

diana · Post by **diana** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:17 pm

It's on page 7 of the witness statements.

Yes, it is unclear because those particular notes are attributed to both Doherty and Harrington. But I agree with the idea that Harrington is quoting himself in this instance.

"To the Marshal I said “I dont like that girl”. He said “what is that?” I
repeated, and further said “under the circumstances she does not act in a manner to suit me; it is strange, to say the least.” (W.S. p. 7)

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:15 pm

Bobbie, where did you get the "It was not Maggie or anyone who worked for father?"

I have hunted for this all day

I have no idea but still looking.

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:55 pm

I always like this little exchange because I think it really gives us an idea of how formal Lizzie spoke compared to people today:

Q Is it Lizzie or Elizabeth?

A. Lizzie

Q. You were so christened?

A. I was so Christened.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:57 am

bobarth @ Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:15 pm wrote:
Bobbie, where did you get the "It was not Maggie or anyone who worked for father?"
I have hunted for this all day I have no idea but still looking.

Don't bother- ray said it.
and said it.
and said it.
and said it.

Not fair- is it?

Sorry, I did not mean for you to spend Saturday looking for that.
ray, say you're sorry, too.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:05 pm

Undoubtedly Lizzie said "maggie" not "Bridget". But any reporter or author would correct it so as not to mislead the reader, who might think a third person was there that morning. "What happened to that Maggie?"

Edward Peason's 1964? book "Trial of Lizzie Borden" reprinted w/ the essay of Gerald Gross that tried to rationalize a solution.
Arnold Brown's book is far superior to this.

PS
Does anyone doubt this story?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:53 pm

Nobody has yet found a previous maid named *Maggie* which is the reason we are always given as to why Bridget was called that.

Gramma said there was a Maggie there that day and she was a friend of Bridget and I think came from the Anthony household?

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:29 pm

[quote="Kat

Sorry, I did not mean for you to spend Saturday looking for that.

Oh that is absolutely no problem. After you said you had been looking for that a year, I grabbed, Lincoln, Brown, and Spiering and thought OUGHT OH!

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:38 pm

Mary Greene shows up as the domestic in the 1880 census for the family. Maggie is usually a nickname for Margaret.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:33 am

I think I recall that Ruby Cameron's mother's name was Margaret?
Diana, can you help me out here?
Bobbie do you know about Ruby Cameron?

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:08 am

Kat-Bobbie do you know about Ruby Cameron?

Have no clue??? But am all ears!!!!!!!!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:40 pm

Oh this is a Good one!
Our Joe and our Diana wrote about this theory in the Hatchet of Oct/Nov 2004.

"Gramma" came here and had known Ruby. There probably are some topics around here on this.
I'll look around.

If anyone wants to tell Ruby's story be our guest- and start a new thread.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:47 pm

Oh thanks will look around and see if I can find the thread.
Thanks

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:49 pm

You can go to the Memberlist, find Gramma, and click on her Profile. On her Profile page will be "Find all posts by Gramma."
That might be a way to find the topics.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:58 pm

Oh I looked up Ruby Cameron and am finding the most delicious information on her. Had heard rumor of a boyfriend but did not know the specifics or names involved. Thanks for clueing me in on that one. Will try the other way to search for that information too.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:32 pm

Kat found this in the posts:

"Question: How could Lizzie be pregnant if she was on her period just a few days prior to the murder? If I'm not mistaken, even Ruby didn't claim Lizzie was pregnant."

A: Was it her period? Or was it the aftermath of a procedure?

"Aftermath of a procedure", OMG had never ever though of that. Wow interesting stuff.

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:01 pm

bobarth @ Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:32 pm wrote:Kat found this in the posts:

"Question: How could Lizzie be pregnant if she was on her period just a few days prior to the murder? If I'm not mistaken, even Ruby didn't claim Lizzie was pregnant."

A: Was it her period? Or was it the aftermath of a procedure?

"Aftermath of a procedure", OMG had never ever though of that. Wow interesting stuff.

This seems like baseless supposition. The laws against abortion were passed in the 1860s. Medical science was advanced enough then, but the problem of avoiding infections through antiseptics was not. That and blood transfusion didn't exist until after WW I (Rh factor, blood types, etc.)
Those who know more about medicine can tell more.

Lizzie was a good Puritan maiden, who would no more have an abortion than murder her father, clothed or no. The closeness of small town life would have made that very difficult. Only in the 1920s with the invention of automobiles and motor courts did things change.

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:32 pm

Ok back to quoting. We forgot
"My money shant pay for that" Andrew Borden

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:16 pm

Why did you let me do it

Lizzie Borden referring to the dress burning, addressed to Alice Russell.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:13 pm

Policemen are human, made out of men, and nothing else; and the blue coat and the brass buttons only cover the kind of a man that is inside. The Honorable George Dexter Robinson, closing for the defense

A blue coat does not make a man any better; it ought not to make him any worse. H. M. Knowlton, closing for the Commonwealth

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:42 pm

Don't forget to mention WHO said it

, please?

diana · Post by **diana** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:05 pm

Kat @ Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:33 am wrote:I think I recall that Ruby Cameron's mother's name was Margaret?
Diana, can you help me out here?

As usual your memory is crystal clear, Kat. Ruby Cameron's mother's name was Margaret Jonsson Cameron.

Ruby refers to her as 'Maggie' Jonsson and says her mother was engaged to John Cameron at the time of the Borden murders.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:17 pm

In the recent musical, there is a great song called "The Maggie Work", and when I asked about that, I was told "Maggie" was a sort of disrespectful term for an Irish maid- sort of like "Mic" for a man, which I learned came actually from Mc, like McCoy, McMillan, etc. So a Maggie was an ignorant Irish drudge with little education. If this was the case, it shows Lizzie and Emma's snobbism.

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:38 pm

Kat @ Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:53 pm wrote:Nobody has yet found a previous maid named *Maggie* which is the reason we are always given as to why Bridget was called that.

Gramma said there was a Maggie there that day and she was a friend of Bridget and I think came from the Anthony household?

Gramma and Ruby both said a lot of things. Much in the same way Arnold Brown and Frank Spiering did and like them they never proved anything or even offered up any real evidence.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:11 pm

Thanks Diana!

Bobbie, have you got the exact quote for that Andrew Borden thing? I think it's Lizzie telling Alice who is telling the cops in a letter.
If it was really said, in some permutation, then it would be
Andrew to Abbie, overheard by Lizzie and told to Alice who told us.
I think maybe we might stick to actual quotes. It's a good and fun way to have people look stuff up in the source documents- finding out some of these aren't really quotes at all!

BTW: those who offer quotes of more than 5 words probably don't do needlepoint, methinks!

bobarth · Post by **bobarth** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:22 pm

Kat

That is in the trial documents Volume 1 page 379 of the trial papers and page 348 on Adobe Acrobat Reader.

Is there any way to cut, copy and paste this information, if so I would post it?

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:19 pm

errrrr... the referenced quote above ("Oh, why did you let me do it, then?") is actually at page 82, Trial Volume 1, isn't it? I don't find it anywhere at 379, unless you're talking about something else on that page. The attribution there seems to be third-hand at best from the looks of it.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:55 am

I'm referring to Andrew supposedly saying *My money shant pay for that.*
Am I wrong?

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:13 am

Oh... okay, that is there.

And then she said, "Dr. Bowen came over. Mrs. Borden went over, and father didn't like it because she was going; and she told him where she was going, and he says, 'Well, my money shan't pay for it.' page 379

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:43 am

Thanks DougOh- who said it? It said Andrew said it.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:27 am

The source is Alice Russell, in her testimony of the 8th of June 1893. It reads as second or third-hand - from Andrew to Abby, overheard by Lizzie, and related by Lizzie to Alice.

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:22 am

I always assumed Maggie was a slang term for an Irish girl, like saying about a blue collar guy, "He's just an average Joe!"