Vomitting so soon after ingesting a meal is pretty suggestive to me. Food poisoning and certain types of poisons would cause vomitting such as Bridget had experienced in conjunction with a recently -consumed meal. Having had food poisoning myself, on several occasions-usually the onset is 30 minutes-one hour after eating the infected food. There are always coincidences in life, of course, but for Bridget to have that sudden urge to purge in the back yard a day after the Bordens were purging in a like matter, seems a bit more than coincidence. I am sure the statistics of such of totally unrelated incidences, both under the same roof within 24 hours of each other would be slim. Here is an excellent link on food-poisoning http://heartspring.net/food_poisoning_symptoms.html
Too bad Bridget was not grilled more closely as to diarrhea, stomach cramps, etc. Were it food-poisoning, dairy products or seafood are likely candidates.
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Shelley
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Bridget had been out the night before the murders. Unfortunately we don't know whether she drank or ate anything while out.
Perhaps, what she may have eaten the night before clashed with the breakfast she ate that morning.
Actually, anything would clash with that breakfast!
Perhaps, what she may have eaten the night before clashed with the breakfast she ate that morning.
Actually, anything would clash with that breakfast!
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Good point Harry. I think though, that had she eaten or drank something contaminated the night before, she would probably have gotten ill in the night after she returned home. Too bad she was not quizzed as to whether or not the vomitting episode Thursday morning was one isolated incident and if she experienced any other symptoms like chills, dizziness, etc so common to food poisoning. Given that she trotted out to do the windows and had enough pep to enjoy a good chitchat with Mary over the fence, it sounds as if once she threw it all up, she was improved enough to carry on as usual- and that in itself is most suggestive. Had Bridget being suffering from food poisoning that morning, the effects do linger. I took to my bed for a day and was as weak as a kitten. Abby would not have been so heartless as to work Bridget to the bone if she had looked as weak as the usual victim of food poisoning.
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Yooper
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Another question I've had concerns Abby's breakfast Wednesday morning. Pork steak? Who in the world eats that after having experienced food poisoning the night before? Abby's apparent recovery time might have some bearing on the possibility for chemical poisoning. She was having some difficulty keeping her breakfast down while with the doctor, however. Andrew's symptoms seemed to linger a bit compared to Abby's.
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Another question I've had concerns Abby's breakfast Wednesday morning. Pork steak?
Do you think it may have been Pork Sausage? Like a sausage patty? Still, your right Yooper, who eats that after being ill with the food poisoning the night before?
Do you think it may have been Pork Sausage? Like a sausage patty? Still, your right Yooper, who eats that after being ill with the food poisoning the night before?
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Yooper
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There is nothing confusing about it. Dr. Bowen "supposes" Abby died from fright. That implies he had not examined her at the point he had the conversation with Doherty. It only becomes confusing if we presume he had already examined her. Bowen also "supposes" Abby died after Andrew based upon the quote. The disparity in body temperatures was a common thread among all the doctors examining the victims. If Dr. Bowen had actually physically examined Abby, he would not possibly have suggested she died after Andrew. The only conclusion I can see is that at the time Bowen had made the quoted statement to Doherty, he had not physically examined Abby, and both of Bowen's statements make sense, as does the accuracy of Doherty's notes about them.Kat @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 am wrote:Shelley, partialYes, I agree, Yooper, Bowen's odd remarks linking the visit and the murders only make sense if Bowen was connecting the statement Abby had made the day before with REAL poisoning- not food poisoning.
It's still confusing, because in the Witness Statements I posted above, Doherty states Dr. Bowen supposedly thought Abbie died of fright, not poisoning or by hatchet like Andrew, if we believe Doherty quoted Dr. Bowen properly.
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Kat
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Well, I never implied Bridget's illness Thursday morning was any kind of *coincidence.*
But... she says she was outside vomiting, and the timing is around when Abbie was murdered. We've no witness to what Bridget claims...
I was implying that Bridget could be sick to her stomach from her headache or medication she may take for her headache, if it was a chronic condition.
But... she says she was outside vomiting, and the timing is around when Abbie was murdered. We've no witness to what Bridget claims...
I was implying that Bridget could be sick to her stomach from her headache or medication she may take for her headache, if it was a chronic condition.
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Kat
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Well, I've had food poisoning, and ended up in the emergency room- but mine did not show up in 2 hours. I never heard of that.
I was the next day- say, 12 to 24 hours.
Anyway, here is a link to an estimate of from 4 to 72 hours, or 6-48. So you can split the difference.
http://www.vdacs.virginia.gov/foodsafet ... ning.shtml
I was the next day- say, 12 to 24 hours.
Anyway, here is a link to an estimate of from 4 to 72 hours, or 6-48. So you can split the difference.
http://www.vdacs.virginia.gov/foodsafet ... ning.shtml
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Yooper
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Moody began the exchange by having this to say about Dr. Bowen and his reputation in his opening statement.
Trial, page 73:
It is to be regretted that Dr. Bowen, a witness accustomed to observation, was the family physician and friend, and therefore affected, naturally, by this dreadful series of murders, for we might expect from him something of accurate observation; but Dr. Bowen thought Mrs. Borden had died of fright, and so expressed himself at the time.
This likely put Bowen on the defensive when questioned. Bowen began by describing his actions after returning from the telegraph office.
Trial, pages 307-309, my emphasis:
A. On my return from the telegraph office I met at about the same place in the entry, or hallway---kitchen hallway---at the same point, Mrs. Churchill.
Q. That is, you had left Mrs. Churchill there when you went away?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you met her on your return?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what was said then?
A. She said, "They have found Mrs. Borden."
Q. What did you do?
A. I asked the question, "Where?" She said, "Upstairs in the front room."
Q. Proceed, sir, with what you did.
A. She said---shall I repeat the conversation?
Q. Yes.
A. She said I had better go up and see. I went directly through the dining room and the corner of the sitting room into the front hall, up the stairs---front stairs---and stopped a moment at the door of the front chamber---guest chamber, front bedroom. At that point I looked over the bed and saw the prostrate form of Mrs. Borden.
Q. Where were you standing, Doctor, when you saw the form of Mrs. Borden?
A. Directly in the door of the room.
Q. What did you do?
A. I went around the back of the bed---that is, the foot of the bed---and between the form and the bed, and placed my hand on her head. It was a little dark in the room, somewhat dark, not very light. I placed my hand on her head and found there were wounds in the head. Then I placed my---felt of her pulse---that is, felt of the wrist, and found she was
dead.
Q. At the time when you first went to her, did you ascertain the cause of her death, or form an opinion as to it?
A. At the first time?
Q. Yes.
A. That was the first time.
Q. Yes, I understand that was the first time. You did so?
A. Certainly.
Q. Did you make any statement to any one that she had died of fright or in a faint?
A. No, sir.
Q. To no one?
A. No, sir. I will say this in explanation: My first thought, when I was standing in the door and saw the form over the bed,---my first thought was that she had fainted: but in a moment afterwards I convinced myself that she was dead.
Q. What did you do after that, Doctor?
A. I went down stairs directly, and told the people in the kitchen that Mrs. Borden was dead: that she was killed, I thought, by the same instrument.
Bowen seems to want to make absolutely certain, beyond any doubt whatever, that this was the first time he examined Abby, for some reason. Not the second or the sixteenth, mind you, the first!
As to the second italicized item, who in the world needs to qualify a statement he didn't make? "No" is no, it doesn't need explanation or further elaboration. If it does, it really is not "no"!
Doherty made an attempt to refute Dr. Bowen's earlier statements at the trial, but the attempt was unsuccessful.
Trial, pages 590-592:
Q. Tell us into which chamber or which room you went?
A. Went into the front chamber on the north side of the building where Mrs. Borden was lying.
Q. Tell us what occurred in there?
A. Dr. Bowen pointed out the body and I went over, and the body was between the dressing case and the bed, and I wanted to see the head, and there was no room for me to go between the body and the bed or body and dressing-case, and I pulled the bed one side and walked up, and I stooped down and looked at the head, moved one of the hands to
look at the head, and she was cut. I told Dr. Bowen that she had been murdered too.
Q. Had Dr. Bowen said anything to you as to the cause of her death before that?
A. Yes, sir.
MR. ROBINSON. Wait a moment. How is it competent?
MR. MOODY. Possibly not very material. I do not know but what it is competent. The only reason is, I asked him if he hadn't told Mr. Doherty she had died of fright. I only stated what had already appeared before the jury, that he had made that statement in reply.
MR. ROBINSON. There is no proof of that. He only said so.
MR. MOODY. I know it, and I have a right to contradict him. It is not of
very much importance to make any trouble about it. Of course, I suggest this to your Honors under the statute.
MASON, C. J. It does not seem to be important.
MR. MOODY. It does not seem to be important, but only because I have said so to the jury it perhaps seems to me more important than it is, and I do not think I am of very much importance in this matter. I will not press it any farther.
All things considered, Bowen attempted to refute his statements the day of the murders. He then refuted the refutation by trying to qualify the word "no". No is an absolute, and any explanation necessary makes it something less than no. He attempts to "explain" how he might have inadvertently made a "died of fright" statement with his explanation. He leaves the door of doubt just a bit ajar in case someone else refutes him. This is entirely understandable, given Moody's opening remarks about Bowen. He had Bowen on the run from the start. Bowen had to make sure he was understood to say he was describing the first time he examined Abby because if it was the second examination, it supports the "died of fright" contention.
In my opinion, Dr. Bowen unsuccessfully attempted to refute his "died of fright" statement. I do not believe Dr. Bowen had time to examine Abby between the time of his return from the telegraph office and his greeting officer Doherty at the door.
[/b]
Trial, page 73:
It is to be regretted that Dr. Bowen, a witness accustomed to observation, was the family physician and friend, and therefore affected, naturally, by this dreadful series of murders, for we might expect from him something of accurate observation; but Dr. Bowen thought Mrs. Borden had died of fright, and so expressed himself at the time.
This likely put Bowen on the defensive when questioned. Bowen began by describing his actions after returning from the telegraph office.
Trial, pages 307-309, my emphasis:
A. On my return from the telegraph office I met at about the same place in the entry, or hallway---kitchen hallway---at the same point, Mrs. Churchill.
Q. That is, you had left Mrs. Churchill there when you went away?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you met her on your return?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what was said then?
A. She said, "They have found Mrs. Borden."
Q. What did you do?
A. I asked the question, "Where?" She said, "Upstairs in the front room."
Q. Proceed, sir, with what you did.
A. She said---shall I repeat the conversation?
Q. Yes.
A. She said I had better go up and see. I went directly through the dining room and the corner of the sitting room into the front hall, up the stairs---front stairs---and stopped a moment at the door of the front chamber---guest chamber, front bedroom. At that point I looked over the bed and saw the prostrate form of Mrs. Borden.
Q. Where were you standing, Doctor, when you saw the form of Mrs. Borden?
A. Directly in the door of the room.
Q. What did you do?
A. I went around the back of the bed---that is, the foot of the bed---and between the form and the bed, and placed my hand on her head. It was a little dark in the room, somewhat dark, not very light. I placed my hand on her head and found there were wounds in the head. Then I placed my---felt of her pulse---that is, felt of the wrist, and found she was
dead.
Q. At the time when you first went to her, did you ascertain the cause of her death, or form an opinion as to it?
A. At the first time?
Q. Yes.
A. That was the first time.
Q. Yes, I understand that was the first time. You did so?
A. Certainly.
Q. Did you make any statement to any one that she had died of fright or in a faint?
A. No, sir.
Q. To no one?
A. No, sir. I will say this in explanation: My first thought, when I was standing in the door and saw the form over the bed,---my first thought was that she had fainted: but in a moment afterwards I convinced myself that she was dead.
Q. What did you do after that, Doctor?
A. I went down stairs directly, and told the people in the kitchen that Mrs. Borden was dead: that she was killed, I thought, by the same instrument.
Bowen seems to want to make absolutely certain, beyond any doubt whatever, that this was the first time he examined Abby, for some reason. Not the second or the sixteenth, mind you, the first!
As to the second italicized item, who in the world needs to qualify a statement he didn't make? "No" is no, it doesn't need explanation or further elaboration. If it does, it really is not "no"!
Doherty made an attempt to refute Dr. Bowen's earlier statements at the trial, but the attempt was unsuccessful.
Trial, pages 590-592:
Q. Tell us into which chamber or which room you went?
A. Went into the front chamber on the north side of the building where Mrs. Borden was lying.
Q. Tell us what occurred in there?
A. Dr. Bowen pointed out the body and I went over, and the body was between the dressing case and the bed, and I wanted to see the head, and there was no room for me to go between the body and the bed or body and dressing-case, and I pulled the bed one side and walked up, and I stooped down and looked at the head, moved one of the hands to
look at the head, and she was cut. I told Dr. Bowen that she had been murdered too.
Q. Had Dr. Bowen said anything to you as to the cause of her death before that?
A. Yes, sir.
MR. ROBINSON. Wait a moment. How is it competent?
MR. MOODY. Possibly not very material. I do not know but what it is competent. The only reason is, I asked him if he hadn't told Mr. Doherty she had died of fright. I only stated what had already appeared before the jury, that he had made that statement in reply.
MR. ROBINSON. There is no proof of that. He only said so.
MR. MOODY. I know it, and I have a right to contradict him. It is not of
very much importance to make any trouble about it. Of course, I suggest this to your Honors under the statute.
MASON, C. J. It does not seem to be important.
MR. MOODY. It does not seem to be important, but only because I have said so to the jury it perhaps seems to me more important than it is, and I do not think I am of very much importance in this matter. I will not press it any farther.
All things considered, Bowen attempted to refute his statements the day of the murders. He then refuted the refutation by trying to qualify the word "no". No is an absolute, and any explanation necessary makes it something less than no. He attempts to "explain" how he might have inadvertently made a "died of fright" statement with his explanation. He leaves the door of doubt just a bit ajar in case someone else refutes him. This is entirely understandable, given Moody's opening remarks about Bowen. He had Bowen on the run from the start. Bowen had to make sure he was understood to say he was describing the first time he examined Abby because if it was the second examination, it supports the "died of fright" contention.
In my opinion, Dr. Bowen unsuccessfully attempted to refute his "died of fright" statement. I do not believe Dr. Bowen had time to examine Abby between the time of his return from the telegraph office and his greeting officer Doherty at the door.
[/b]
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To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
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DJ
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Bridget claimed she had a "sick headache" the a.m. of the 4th. IOW-- her head hurt to the point that she felt nauseated. Then she threw up, after which she obviously felt well enough to finish her chores, although she was still feeling "puny" enough to want to lie down afterward.
We know she had a glass of cold milk when she came in from her visitation the evening before, when she obviously felt well enough to go a-calling.
The last time I had food poisoning-- well, the body attempts to alleviate the problem from all exit points. It's not a matter of simply throwing up once and being done with it.
If I had awaken with a headache that a.m., then had to stand in that hot kitchen frying johnnycakes (not to mention heating up the dreaded mutton broth), I would have been sick to my stomach, too.
Of course, Bridget could have been unwittingly lactose intolerant, and having a reaction to her late-night glass of milk.
(Or, maybe the dreaded milk-can poisoner struck....)
Anyway, all facetiousness aside, I seriously doubt she had food poisoning (or she would have been hanging out, literally and figuratively, in the WC), and it doesn't sound as if she were poisoned to any degree by any other agent.
We know she had a glass of cold milk when she came in from her visitation the evening before, when she obviously felt well enough to go a-calling.
The last time I had food poisoning-- well, the body attempts to alleviate the problem from all exit points. It's not a matter of simply throwing up once and being done with it.
If I had awaken with a headache that a.m., then had to stand in that hot kitchen frying johnnycakes (not to mention heating up the dreaded mutton broth), I would have been sick to my stomach, too.
Of course, Bridget could have been unwittingly lactose intolerant, and having a reaction to her late-night glass of milk.
(Or, maybe the dreaded milk-can poisoner struck....)
Anyway, all facetiousness aside, I seriously doubt she had food poisoning (or she would have been hanging out, literally and figuratively, in the WC), and it doesn't sound as if she were poisoned to any degree by any other agent.
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DJ
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She wuz, and I wonder what Bridget spent on-- her garments were minimal (another reason for Lizzie's dress burning to have been considered prodigal), and most everything else she needed was provided. Perhaps she was storing up a bank account and/or sending money to someone.
If I'd been in her humble shoes, I would have had a bottle stashed under the bed. But, you do raise an interesting question, Angel, especially vis a vis cultural stereotypes. Did Bridget take a nip?
If I'd been in her humble shoes, I would have had a bottle stashed under the bed. But, you do raise an interesting question, Angel, especially vis a vis cultural stereotypes. Did Bridget take a nip?
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Allen
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Sometimes people who had immigrated to America to live would send money back home to the family, especially if there was a large family. This money could be used to provide the means for other relatives to come to America, or just a supplemental income. Bridget might have been doing this with some of her wages.
"He who cannot put his thoughts on ice should not enter into the head of dispute." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Kat
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Thanks Yooper for researching the answer to my question of you! Sorry it took so long for me to read you! Very good!
You're right DJ, that food poisoning comes out every way it can. I suppose vicious intentional poisoning does also? Sick headaches could be from drinking, or from the heat, or even from PMS. I wonder what Bridget's menstrual cycle was- if Lizzie knew when it was and maybe the crime was planned for that time. I don't think we ever discussed that.
Missy, I wonder how much money Bridget had and wheher she saved or spent her money?
You're right DJ, that food poisoning comes out every way it can. I suppose vicious intentional poisoning does also? Sick headaches could be from drinking, or from the heat, or even from PMS. I wonder what Bridget's menstrual cycle was- if Lizzie knew when it was and maybe the crime was planned for that time. I don't think we ever discussed that.
Missy, I wonder how much money Bridget had and wheher she saved or spent her money?
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augusta
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I agree with Angel, that Bridget could have had a hangover on Thursday morning. I don't think hers had anything to do with poison.
Kat, I saw one of those foresnics shows that dealt with Tylenol tampering. In this case, I think strychnine was used and the person who did it was caught. I don't know if there was more than one Tylenol tampering case, but wasn't that the reason all medicine bottles on the shelf had to be safety-sealed?
I think food poisoning differs in cases. I had it once. It struck me within a half an hour, and I was sick for about 8 hours. I didn't feel lousy afterwards or weak, as Shelly did, but it sounds like she was a lot sicker than me.
I was also mis-diagnosed in the Emergency Room of having food poisoning when I didn't. I later learned it was diverticulitis, and they sent me home the same day, where I bled in pain for 4 days and it stopped on its own.
Dr. Bowen was shaken up by the Bordens' murders. He says to Mrs. Churchill:
(page 316, trial)
A: (Mrs. Churchill): He came out shortly and made some exclamation, I do not remember what, then he turned to me and said, "Addie, come in and see Mr. Borden." I said, "Oh, no, doctor. I don't want to see him. I saw him this morning. I don't want to see him."
That is weird. I would not think Dr. Bowen under normal circumstances would have said that. Bowen was a very respected doctor.
Lizzie also takes the opportunity to mention poison to Mrs. Churchill the morning of the murders.
Trial, page 348:
A: (Mrs. Churchill): She said, "Father must have an enemy, for we have all been sick, and we think the milk has been poisoned."
Why would Lizzie bother to mention the poison again to Mrs. Churchill after the bodies had been butchered? And that "for we have all been sick" is, at least to me, not true?
Eli Bence and Hart and Kilroy had no reason to lie. Lizzie's voice has been described in Rebello in a tone that someone hearing it again - such as Bence on Thursday night - would probably recognize it.
But since Lizzie was under the weather, she says, all of Wednesday (except going to see Alice that evening) could she have left the house that day to go to Smith's Drug Store without being seen? I don't think so.
There is Lizzie's overheard quote taken from the courtroom saying she
had never been in Smith's in her life, which easily could be a lie. And the newspapers saying on that day a woman who looked like Lizzie was doing a sting operation to see if any druggist would sell her prussic acid. And the papers were full of all sorts of things then.
I don't think it matters if Lizzie was in Smith's or not. She didn't get the prussic acid, if it was her.
If I were Abby, yes, I would have run to the doctor's before the police. The doctor might have been able to save her life. Maybe had she lived longer, she would have gone to the police about her belief in poison. Or would Andrew have forbidden it?
The Bordens symptoms matched arsenic poisoning.
Kat, I saw one of those foresnics shows that dealt with Tylenol tampering. In this case, I think strychnine was used and the person who did it was caught. I don't know if there was more than one Tylenol tampering case, but wasn't that the reason all medicine bottles on the shelf had to be safety-sealed?
I think food poisoning differs in cases. I had it once. It struck me within a half an hour, and I was sick for about 8 hours. I didn't feel lousy afterwards or weak, as Shelly did, but it sounds like she was a lot sicker than me.
I was also mis-diagnosed in the Emergency Room of having food poisoning when I didn't. I later learned it was diverticulitis, and they sent me home the same day, where I bled in pain for 4 days and it stopped on its own.
Dr. Bowen was shaken up by the Bordens' murders. He says to Mrs. Churchill:
(page 316, trial)
A: (Mrs. Churchill): He came out shortly and made some exclamation, I do not remember what, then he turned to me and said, "Addie, come in and see Mr. Borden." I said, "Oh, no, doctor. I don't want to see him. I saw him this morning. I don't want to see him."
That is weird. I would not think Dr. Bowen under normal circumstances would have said that. Bowen was a very respected doctor.
Lizzie also takes the opportunity to mention poison to Mrs. Churchill the morning of the murders.
Trial, page 348:
A: (Mrs. Churchill): She said, "Father must have an enemy, for we have all been sick, and we think the milk has been poisoned."
Why would Lizzie bother to mention the poison again to Mrs. Churchill after the bodies had been butchered? And that "for we have all been sick" is, at least to me, not true?
Eli Bence and Hart and Kilroy had no reason to lie. Lizzie's voice has been described in Rebello in a tone that someone hearing it again - such as Bence on Thursday night - would probably recognize it.
But since Lizzie was under the weather, she says, all of Wednesday (except going to see Alice that evening) could she have left the house that day to go to Smith's Drug Store without being seen? I don't think so.
There is Lizzie's overheard quote taken from the courtroom saying she
had never been in Smith's in her life, which easily could be a lie. And the newspapers saying on that day a woman who looked like Lizzie was doing a sting operation to see if any druggist would sell her prussic acid. And the papers were full of all sorts of things then.
I don't think it matters if Lizzie was in Smith's or not. She didn't get the prussic acid, if it was her.
If I were Abby, yes, I would have run to the doctor's before the police. The doctor might have been able to save her life. Maybe had she lived longer, she would have gone to the police about her belief in poison. Or would Andrew have forbidden it?
The Bordens symptoms matched arsenic poisoning.
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Yooper
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Andrew supposedly forbade Abby from going to the doctor and it did no good, she went anyway. Maybe the idea that she might go to the police was her undoing. That may be exactly why she did not live longer. If we substitute the term murder for poison, maybe Abby's message becomes clearer. After all, she was right!
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
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augusta
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It's interesting, Yooper. I hadn't thought of it like that before. She did help to set the stage, didn't she - as long as she didn't tell Dr. Bowen she thought Lizzie did it, and I never read that she did.
Andrew being anti-Bowen that morning I think was more of a money issue than something like the Daylight Robbery issue. He says his money shan't pay for it (paraphrased).
Andrew being anti-Bowen that morning I think was more of a money issue than something like the Daylight Robbery issue. He says his money shan't pay for it (paraphrased).
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snokkums
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- Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:09 am
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Robin
- Location: fayetteville nc,but from milwaukee
- Contact:
I think it would have been easier to convict her if she used the poison, but then I don't know. If the elder Bordens' hadn't been feeling well as they claimed, then it might be difficult because the police might be looking for the poison. I think the only way would be looking for the poison angle would have been the pharmist claiming (as he did) that she came in trying to buy the poison. I know she said something of getting the poison for killing some bugs or weeds or something. Can't remember the exact reason for the posion, but it was a small amount, like 1/2 a gram or something.Allen @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:06 pm wrote:I think if Lizzie had been successful with the poison it would've been easier to convict her. As it has been pointed many times since the murders, poison was considered a more feminine mode of killing. Poison also points to an inside job, or someone who had intimate knowlege of the elder Borden's routine. The poisoner needs intimate access to a person or else there is no way to administer it. One thing that may have worked in her favor had she successfully poisoned them is she would not have been forced to concoct such a lame alibi as she did for the day of the murders.
Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I will take my leave when I please.
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Kat
- Posts: 14768
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:59 pm
- Real Name:
- Location: Central Florida
Augusta: the first and biggest product tampering case was never solved- as far as I recall.
There was the case of copycat where the woman killed her husband and then planted a tampered product locally to take any suspicion off of her as a private murder case. I think that had to do with fish tank cleanser or something?
Snokkums, Bence said that Lizzie came in and asked for the prussic acid to put on the edge of her cape.
Bence was consistent in always saying the lady said the same thing as he states here:
Inquest
160(67)
Bence
Q. What took place, what happened, about the purchasing of the poison?
A. This party came in there, and inquired if I kept prussic acid. They came in, and the second clerk went towards them to wait on them. I was standing out there, I walked in ahead. She asked me if we kept prussic acid. I informed her that we did.
Q. What happened then?
A. She asked me if she could buy ten cents worth of me. I informed her we did not sell prussic acid, unless by a physician's prescription. She then said that she had bought this several times, I think; I think she said several times before. I says "well my good lady, it is something we dont sell unless by a prescription from the doctor, as it is a very dangerous thing to handle." She then walked around, and went out, turned right around.
Q. Did she say what she wanted it for?
A. I understood her to say she wanted it to put on the edge of a seal skin cape, if I remember rightly.
--That the lady wanted the substance to kill bugs or to clean her garmet, came later. People put words into her mouth. Lizzie herself said she never put acid on her cape.
Lizzie
Inquest
91(48)
Q. Have you sealskin sacks?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where are they?
A. Hanging in a large white bag in the attic, each one separate.
Q. Put away for the summer?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you ever use prussic acid on your sacks?
92 (49)
A. Acid? No, sir; I don't use anything on them.
There was the case of copycat where the woman killed her husband and then planted a tampered product locally to take any suspicion off of her as a private murder case. I think that had to do with fish tank cleanser or something?
Snokkums, Bence said that Lizzie came in and asked for the prussic acid to put on the edge of her cape.
Bence was consistent in always saying the lady said the same thing as he states here:
Inquest
160(67)
Bence
Q. What took place, what happened, about the purchasing of the poison?
A. This party came in there, and inquired if I kept prussic acid. They came in, and the second clerk went towards them to wait on them. I was standing out there, I walked in ahead. She asked me if we kept prussic acid. I informed her that we did.
Q. What happened then?
A. She asked me if she could buy ten cents worth of me. I informed her we did not sell prussic acid, unless by a physician's prescription. She then said that she had bought this several times, I think; I think she said several times before. I says "well my good lady, it is something we dont sell unless by a prescription from the doctor, as it is a very dangerous thing to handle." She then walked around, and went out, turned right around.
Q. Did she say what she wanted it for?
A. I understood her to say she wanted it to put on the edge of a seal skin cape, if I remember rightly.
--That the lady wanted the substance to kill bugs or to clean her garmet, came later. People put words into her mouth. Lizzie herself said she never put acid on her cape.
Lizzie
Inquest
91(48)
Q. Have you sealskin sacks?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where are they?
A. Hanging in a large white bag in the attic, each one separate.
Q. Put away for the summer?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you ever use prussic acid on your sacks?
92 (49)
A. Acid? No, sir; I don't use anything on them.