Possibility that Lizzy (Lizzie) Borden had children-

[ddborden]

Let me begin this by stating my thesis right up front: I believe that there is a strong probability that Lizzie Borden had children, although the public-known supposed ‘fact’ is that she did not. The hypothesis starts with a woman named Diane K. Schilke-legal birth name is Dianne Borden Kessler(Kesslar). She was born in Providence, Rhode Island on July 14, 1933. She was alive during a large portion of my life and I knew her personally on a periodic basis. She declared to her family and friends that her mother had died during childbirth and her father had already bolted and wanted nothing to do with her or the unknown mother. She also declared that she had two aunts that lived in Providence, RI and they were supposedly given custody of Dianne. Her first husband will not play a role in this story, so I will leave his name out of it, to not cause confusion. She married her 2nd husband in 1967 in California-his name was Richard Martin Schilke. All of her life, she went by Dianne Borden Schilke. Her husband, Richard, died in October 2000. In his will, which I have visibly obtained and read from one of my sources, were the words: “…to my wife, Dianne Borden Schilke…” Dianne occasionally leaked out details about her childhood when questioned, and it was very clear she had a fairly horrible upbringing and had been tortured on numerous occasions. And sadly, Dianne carried a lot of similar behavior with her into her own life. She even tried having her first husband killed by putting out a ‘dead or alive’ wanted bulletin at the police department during the time she was intimately involved with one or more police officers at the station and her husband had found out about it. Another family member has clear memories of running away from her as she chased him with a hatchet and threw it at him during a fit of rage. And yet another family member witnessed and discovered that Dianne had covertly and intentionally broke up his engagement with his fiancée because Dianne was unable to control her. This article has not been written to bring up her past deeds, but to reveal similar characteristics of an extremely painful childhood as should be assumed in the Borden household.
Here’s where it gets interesting… Dianne died in September of 2010. The exact name on the obituary was ‘Diane K. Schilke.’ A couple members of the family got some ‘red flags’ on this because it wasn’t the name that they knew her as. That’s when they contacted me to research this. These people actually prayed about this, and the Lord told them to research the name ‘Borden.’ To their shock, the most common thing that came up was the Lizzie Borden case, and the family members had never heard about Lizzie Borden. The family began to strongly wonder if there was a relation, since there were several strong coincidences:

1) After this discovery, three people in the family that knew Dianne, were questioned if they had ever heard of ‘Lizzie Borden.’ None of the three people questioned had ever heard of Lizzie Borden. However, many, many, at least 20 random people outside of the family were asked if they had ever heard of Lizzie Borden, and every one of them so far has heard of her.
2) Dianne and her family were from the EXACT same area as Lizzie Borden
3) Dianne’s two ‘aunts’ were named Elizabeth and Emma, and were sisters.
4) This will be discussed later, but Dianne’s mom did not die during child birth, and it is assumed at some point Dianne found out, or Dianne was lying the whole time and was hiding it for some reason, or Dianne was lied to from birth.
5) Dianne was very well hidden from the public as a child and an adult in public records. It you didn’t know about her two marriages, there is no good public record of her after the 1935 census(2 years old).
6) THE STRANGEST COINCIDENCE: Nowhere in any of her family genealogy does anyone have the name Borden for a first, middle, or last name. Why would she be named this for her middle name? Everyone else has been named after someone related in their first or middle names.

Here’s where the evidence comes in. This took about a hundred hours to figure out. There have been numerous name changes and cover-ups in this family line. The reason for the cover-ups is still unknown. Those who were close to her during her life recall many of these types of cover-ups and name changes as Dianne attempted to manipulate the situations around her. She even created a will of her own about 8 days before her 2nd husband, Richard, died-with the name ‘Diane K Schilke.’ Those around her and Richard during this time knew that Richard would be going very soon. Coincidently, when Dianne died, this will was not discovered until about seven months after her death. There was another will in place (the main will) that was released to the family right after her death that ‘most’ people in the family knew would be coming. I have been told that the contents of the 2nd ‘mysterious will’ have not yet been fully revealed to the family other than there is a somewhat large sum of money that was found.

GENEAOLOGY: We’ll start with Dianne’s mother: Emma Almaretta Kessler(later became Emma Najac), born April 15, 1909 in Providence, RI and died October 1986 in Providence, RI. The birth records clearly show that she was the mother of ‘D Keslar’ on July 14, 1933. This is the only Keslar/Kesler/Kessler born on this day and this year(same birth date and place as Dianne), and has the same address as Dianne Borden Kesler on the 1935 census 2 years later. FACT: EMMA IS THE MOTHER OF DIANNE. The father is unknown and probably will not ever be known. Also, there are three different found spellings of Kessler, but they all seem to follow the same family line in that area of the country. Emma’s sister was Elizabeth Irene Kessler. Both girls were born to Philip Valentine Kessler and Pearl Irene Colman. Pearl is from Canada and her line leads in the other direction. Philip’s line, however, leads down a much more interesting path. Philip changed his middle initial “V” to the letter “N” sometime between 1930 and 1935(it’s possible that the N and V could be mis-read on the census form, but unlikely). His birthdate, address, and family members remain the same. After this, I cannot trace him. Philip was born in February 3, 1881 to Harry/Fred Kessler (I’ll explain this later) and Elizabeth Kessler. Philip has two different birth locations from two different documents. On one document, the birth place is Germany and on the other, it’s Jersey City, NJ. Harry and Fred Kessler are one in the same person….. Unless Elizabeth just happened to marry two different people with the last name Kessler that happened to be born on the same day. On the 1910 census from Providence, RI, here’s the parents and children and their birth years listed: FRED(FATHER)B-1857, ELIZABETH(MOTHER)B-1860, EMMA: B1884, BESSIE: B1891, FLORA: B1897. Ok, so now, here’s the info from the previous 1900 census from Jersey City, NJ: HARRY(FATHER) B1857, ELIZABETH(MOTHER) B-1860, EMMA B1884, BESSIE B1891-1892, FLORA B1897, PHILIP B1881, TILLIE B1882. The only things that have changed between the two census’ is Harry became Fred, and the family has 'moved' from Jersey City to Providence. There is also a potential name change from Fred Kessler to Frederick Schneider between 1916-1920. This same ‘Fred’ lived with Albert H Schneider(Fred’s son in law) in 1927. Also, Bessie changed her name to Elizabeth at some point-why would parents and then children change their first names? Bessie/Elizabeth was married to Albert Schneider and had a 1 year old daughter in 1920 in Providence, RI.
So, let’s go back to Elizabeth Kessler, the mother, married to Harry/Fred. She was born in July of 1960. This is the same month and year as Lizzie Borden. Her birth place was listed as Germany, and she was listed as dead in 1916. So it appears the story ends. Maybe. Maybe not. 1)Her parents in Germany cannot be confirmed-I have stumbled across about three different trails of potential parents and they don’t connect. I personally think the “Germany” trail is fake and misleading and I’ll go into that shortly. If Lizzie Borden and Elizabeth Kessler aren’t the same person, I still believe the Germany trail is a lie anyway-can't find anything concrete. 2)The death in 1916-I cannot get any actual document showing the death other than the transposed text death record text that anyone can get a hold of. Also, after 1916 is when most of the name changing started occurring, and it was harder to get a hold of the whereabouts of any of the remaining family members. But these aren’t the only things that are fishy. In one of the census documents that I ran across, Elizabeth Kessler is the only person on the whole census that did not fill in the month of her birth-only the year (1860). Also, there are still two different documents that I have seen with my eyes that have two different birth places labeled for her son, Philip. One of them is a WWI document that I would assume Philip himself filled out showing him born in Jersey City. The other one is a census document I would assume the parents filled out showing Germany as the birth place of Philip. Another thing, there are two census documents that contradict each other on the year the Harry/Fred and Elizabeth came over to the states from ‘Germany.’ One document says 1880 and the other says 1882. I have observed the original handwritten documents, and they are clear contradictions.
CONCLUSION: Can I actually prove that Lizzie Borden had children? NO. I cannot. However, with the coincidences in Dianne’s life, I would say there is a probable relation. Also, if Elizabeth Kessler is not Lizzie Borden, there are still a heavy amount of lies going on. We’ve got numerous contradicting documents, numerous name changes, and we’ve got major cover-ups and lies in Dianne’s life and in her parents’ lives. We’ve got numerous attempted murders and covert sabotage. We’ve also got a random middle name of ‘Borden’ popping up for no known reason-this is the most puzzling fact for me-not only that she's randomly named BORDEN, but then she changes her name shortly before she dies to remove the word "BORDEN" from her record.

[Yooper]

I see nothing here leading to the conclusion of a strong probability that Lizzie Borden had children. I have a great grandmother born in July of 1860, and I guarantee she was not Lizzie Borden. If there are numerous contradicting documents, name changes, cover-ups and lies within a family, why does that point specifically to Lizzie Borden? There were any number of Borden families in Fall River, why choose this one? Abby Borden's niece, who had no blood relationship to the Borden family, was given the middle name Borden. The nicknames Bessie, Bess, Beth, and Betsy are all derivatives of Elizabeth. Elizabeth was and is a very common name, but Lizzie Borden's full name was Lizzie Andrew Borden, not Elizabeth. Coincidences do not prove a probable relationship, they don't even prove a possible relationship.

[ddborden]

I somewhat agree with you and can see where you're coming from. When the family originally asked me to research this, the strongest concern to them was that her whole life she was known as "Borden" and then changed her name before she died. Then the family found out about Lizzie Borden whom they had never heard of. OK, coincidence, whatever. After I started researching, and have checked everyone in the family possible from siblings, husbands, mothers, fathers, etc......NO BORDENs ANYWHERE. So, conclusion, IT IS strange that she would have this name to begin with, but even stranger that she would intentionally remove it later. Still doesn't prove anything, I agree.

Next- So there is an Elizabeth in her line born July,1860. Maybe just a coincidence. However, this Elizabeth is the only person who leaves her birth month off the census, STRANGE, but still doesn't prove anything. Her husband changes his first name--VERY STRANGE, but who knows why. Two immigration census documents for the family contradict each other-VERY STRANGE. Two legal documents with their own son's birth place being in two different countries-VERY VERY STRANGE.

I was unaware Bessie was a stem from Elizabeth and did verify that to be true. Good call.

Here's another interesting piece of the puzzle though, and I cannot publicly post the details without the family's permission, and at this time I do not have permission to do so. The personal stories and eye-witnesses of things that happened in Dianne's family are some of the sickest and most twisted things I have ever heard of. The details I included earlier about the hatchet throwing and the persuasive way of getting a corrupt police officer to put a hit out on her husband-these things don't even compare to some of the other things the family shared with me that had happened. This Dianne came out of a sick background, regardless.

I appreaciate your response, and totally understand your logical reasoning, but I will still hold to my conclusion. I do not 100% believe that Dianne was the great-grandchild of Lizzie, but I do still believe there is a strong possiblity that it's the case-just my opinion and something I think is interesting for others to look into.

Another thing I forgot to include in the article: Two of the family members told me that 'aunt Elizabeth' was always referred to as a SPINSTER. Just another coincidence.

And finally, I cannot find any official birth or death record of this "Elizabeth Kessler." And her parents in Germany cannot be verified.

[Yooper]

I guess what I don't understand is the reasoning involved. If someone uses a hatchet to commit murder, or for any other reason, they are not automatically related to Lizzie Borden. Everyone born in 1860 was not Lizzie Borden. Every female born in or near Fall River was not Lizzie Borden. Census documents were notoriously inaccurate many years ago. I have a great grandfather whose age in the census gives him a different birth year for every census he was ever counted in, and none of them are correct! I have a grandmother who didn't care for her given middle name, so she used her maiden name as a middle name after she married my grandfather.

Census takers just wrote down whatever people told them, they didn't necessarily demand birth certificates or any other proof, and if some item slipped a person's mind, the census taker didn't wait around while they attempted to recall it. They certainly didn't cross reference anything, if the census taker had the previous census along with them, there would have been fewer mistakes. Something like a person's age would not be difficult, just add ten years to the previous census as an example, or at least question it if something else was offered as an age.

Whatever tragic occurrences befell Dianne can not be attributed to being the result of a relationship with Lizzie Borden or with anyone else. Whatever Dianne did, it was because Dianne chose it, not because her mother, father, grandmother, or grandfather made her do it. Dianne was responsible for Dianne's life, not her ancestors. According to the reasoning used as proof of relationship, anyone using a hatchet for anything is somehow related. I have used a hatchet on occasion, and I have absolutely no Borden ancestry.

I'm sure there are people who have never heard of Lizzie Borden, just because we are aware of the name and the murder case does not imply that everyone must also know about it. I find it far more likely that Dianne might have used the name Borden while unaware of the murder case, then dropped it as the result of becoming aware of the murder case because of the possible implication, and that is only a remote possibility. Purposely dropping the name is absolutely not proof of a relationship to Lizzie Borden and it does not imply the probability of a relationship.

A family with contradictory immigration census documents implies the family were immigrants. How does that make them related to Lizzie Borden, what is the connection? What it boils down to is this; if Lizzie Borden married and had children and wanted to cover it up, why would she choose the name Elizabeth and July, 1860 as birth date? Why not 1858 or 1862 and some other month? Why not Mary Smith or Thunderbolt Shickelgruber, anything but Elizabeth?

[Yooper]

One other point, if Aunt Elizabeth was a spinster, she was never married nor did she have children. That is what the term "spinster" means.

[ddborden]

Yeah exactly. That's what I found interesting. 2 people in the family said that Elizabeth (Emma's sister) was referred to "that old spinster." She never did marry or have children that I can verify. Just another coincidence. Good feedback. That's why I posted it up here. Forums and blogs are great ways to get others' input and feedback.

[SallyG]

I have been doing genealogy for about 35 years and the inconsistencies you mention are par for the course. I have found families listed by their first names one year, then the next census 10 years later has them all listed by their middle names. Your Fred may have been Frederick Harrison...hence one census he is Fred, the next census he is Harry. He was listed under his son-in-law's name....not that he changed his name...just that the census taker listed it that way. OR, the family may not have been home when the census taker visited, and the information may have come from a neighbor. NOTHING is ever consistent when you are doing genealogy. NOTHING!! Names were often transposed and spelled wrong, birth dates were wrong...sometimes it's a guessing game to find your ancestors. Not to mention that many people didn't read or write and had no idea how their name was spelled...they left it to the census taker to do the spelling...and a good part of the time it was spelled wrong. I can't even begin to tell you how the names of my ancestors have been butchered by census takers.

You have found a lot of typical inconsistencies in your research....and literally NOTHING that leads to Lizzie Borden. Hate to disappoint, and I'm sure most of us here are open enough to entertain any possibility....but your deductions are just not supported by any evidence.

[Fargo]

Keep up the research ddborden, it would be something to find out that Lizzie had children.

Having children out of wedlock was a scandal as recent as the 1950's. I can remember people talking when I was a kid in the early 70's about such things and they were looked down upon way more then than they are today.

In the Victorian time it was of course much more of a scandal. My grandfather on my mothers side came from England, he was born in 1894. Granddad had several sisters all of whom were older than him.

One of Granddad's older sisters had a baby girl out of wedlock and the girl was raised by my granddad's's mother as if she was my granddad's sister. My granddad was never knew that his sister was really his niece until several years had gone by.

This way of doing things was probably a somewhat common way of covering things up for unwed mothers.

[NESpinster]

Sorry, I know this is over a year late (!), but I've done a lot of genealogy altho I am by NO means an expert--but I know just how wrong things like census records and even birth/death certificates can be. (My dad was born in 1922 and my mom in 1927, both at home but attended by doctors--the drs didn't bother to fill in their birth certificates until the next day so BOTH my parents' birthdays are listed as being one day LATER than their actual birthdate!! And don't even get me going on the ridiculous mistakes made on census records!!)

One correction if you don't mind, Yooper. (Love your name btw!) You say, "....if Aunt Elizabeth was a spinster, she was never married nor did she have children. That is what the term 'spinster' means." Welllllll...yes and no. It's absolutely true that a spinster is an adult woman who has never married. Unmarried women CAN--as we all know!--have children. As Fargo points out, it actually happened a lot more often than you'd think, given Victorian sensitivity toward such things. I would not be posting on this board--or anywhere else for that matter--if spinsters never gave birth, because my great-grandfather, grandfather, my mother and I would have never been born. My maternal great-great-grandmother, Margaret Elizabeth (hey--another Elizabeth!!) gave birth not once but twice before she finally married--and her husband was not the father of either son. We think we know the identity of the older son's father but as for her second son (my great-grandfather, James Jacob, whom I call JJ)--well, plenty of rumors but no facts concerning HIS father. My Margaret Elizabeth (I call her "Maggie") tried to pass off JJ (and probably the other son as well) as her younger brothers, but somehow word got out and JJ was teased relentlessly by the other kids. I don't think he ever quite got over it because there WAS an overwhelming stigma back then about sex outside of marriage--especially when it resulted in "inconvenient" children!! Actually given the shame attached, it's amazing that Maggie managed to find herself a husband, but she did marry later on and had a number of legitimate children--how she pulled THAT off I will never know!! (Well, okay, I may be a spinster myself but I know perfectly well how the children were conceived .) What's surprising is that given her "ruined" reputation, Maggie still managed to find a husband. She must have been a woman of intense resolve!!

The one thing Maggie never counted on was my own humble self. I drive the rest of my family crazy with my love of digging up old family scandals--the worse they are, the more I enjoy them! I spotted the "inconsistencies" right away in Maggie's effort to claim her two sons as her baby brothers and I didn't quit digging til I got to the truth. Same as I did when I uncovered the many-times-great uncle who fought in the American Revolution--on the British side!!! (That's how he ended up in Canada lol.) And the relatives who supposedly died of disease during the Civil War, but oddly enough in prison and with conflicting accounts of their deaths...tracked that one down too. Turns out they deserted from the Confederate Army (they lived in North Carolina) and when their Colonel (Lieutenant?) and a group of soldiers were sent to bring them back, gunfire ensued and, well....the Colonel (Lieutenant?) fell dead off his horse. My relatives might have been sick of fighting in the war but they were damn good shots! They found out the hard way that this was not the way to get a furlough!!!

Sorry, I do tend to get carried away. My family will hate me for this.

[patsy]

I agree that the mistakes that you've seen are par for the course. Census information is good for a guide but not always accurate, and people may give wrong information as well as the census taker could have interpreted things wrong. I have a copy of a will with an ancestor's surname spelled three different ways on the same page. And when my mother died I mistakenly gave her grandmother's maiden name instead of her mom's maiden name for the record. Ugh. That may mess up future genealogists for sure.

But it is an interesting idea to me that Lizzie may have had a child. I'd love to think the David Anthony connection was true, and that may he was involved and was the man seen jumping the fence. But that has been pretty well all disputed. But then if he were her lover and she did have a child then maybe only Robinson knew it. What a thought. I need those Robinson papers for sure. Haha Just talking crazy I know, but it gives me some excitement to speculate even the most far-fetched of theories it seems.

I'd say follow your gut and continue exploring and maybe you can prove something or definitely rule it out, and maybe even come across another fascinating connection.

[Mara]

My Margaret Elizabeth (I call her "Maggie") tried to pass off JJ (and probably the other son as well) as her younger brothers, but somehow word got out and JJ was teased relentlessly by the other kids. I don't think he ever quite got over it because there WAS an overwhelming stigma back then about sex outside of marriage--especially when it resulted in "inconvenient" children!! Actually given the shame attached, it's amazing that Maggie managed to find herself a husband, but she did marry later on and had a number of legitimate children--how she pulled THAT off I will never know!!

Well obviously we're related, NESpinster! :) My grandmother Margaret Agnes (called Maggie) had my late father out of wedlock in 1909. Or maybe it was her sister Mary Elizabeth (Mame), but Maggie was the one on the birth certificate; Dad was confused about which of them was his mother and which his aunt until he sorted it out at about age 14.

When Dad was 4, Maggie put him in an orphanage/boarding school for underprivileged kids. At the same time, she married a widower. Eventually, they produced a passel of legit kids to add to a couple he brought in from his first marriage. It was Mame who always visited Dad at the orphanage and brought him home with her for occasional family gatherings -- to meet the parade of new step- and half-siblings, if nothing else. Supposedly, though, there was no stigma attached to Dad's bastard status, no "step" this or "half" that amongst the children. They were all very close and remained so throughout life. Except, of course, that at these egalitarian gatherings, Dad had to go back to the orphanage before the dirty dishes had even made it to the sink.

To make it even more interesting, Dad's birth certificate shows his full name with a cousin's surname inserted in front of Maggie's, so maybe Maggie and Mame originally took care of Dad for a misbehaving cousin who may or may not have lived through the birth. This complex sort of thing was probably a lot more common back then than we imagine.

[InterestedReader]

Just a very belated PS...

Here in Britain, in that time leading up to & including the 'Great War' as it was then known, the '14 - '18 First World War... people of Germanic extraction changed their surnames. Legally. Whether the family had immigrated one generation or ten into the past, countless thousands of Germanic surnames were jettisoned and Anglo-Saxon names put in their place. It just wasn't safe trotting around with Teutonic-sounding surnames! Even the 'British' Royal family got rid of its mile-long German name and from there on called itself Windsor (a complete invention of a name.) Same thing happened in France - Germanic exchanged for Gallic - and other Allied countries. I do not know about the United States - but the crucial date you give of 1916, when the U.S. entered the war, rather suggests anti-German xenophobia may simply have been the reason. Why these Kesslers obscured their German origin.

[Kim]

I'm not sure if this is still an active blog, but am curious regarding this subject as I am a granddaughter of Emma (Kessler) Najac and am unaware of any of our family's affiliation with Lizzie Borden, nor a daughter named Dianne/Diane. There is reference to a statement above, a fact, that Emma Kessler Najac is the mother of Dianne; I'd like to know more because this is news to me. My grandmother had a sister named Elizabeth, and a niece named Diane, but the rest of the info, especially the Fall River & Borden references, are unknown to me. I'm wondering if, in researching Elizabeth & Emma sisters from that era, someone researched my family's genealogy & affiliated it somehow with Lizzie Borden by way of Dianne/Diane K. Borden Schilke?

[Orchard Life]

I'm not sure if this is still an active blog, but am curious regarding this subject as I am a granddaughter of Emma (Kessler) Najac and am unaware of any of our family's affiliation with Lizzie Borden, nor a daughter named Dianne/Diane. There is reference to a statement above, a fact, that Emma Kessler Najac is the mother of Dianne; I'd like to know more because this is news to me. My grandmother had a sister named Elizabeth, and a niece named Diane, but the rest of the info, especially the Fall River & Borden references, are unknown to me. I'm wondering if, in researching Elizabeth & Emma sisters from that era, someone researched my family's genealogy & affiliated it somehow with Lizzie Borden by way of Dianne/Diane K. Borden Schilke?

I can't say who I am, too much at risk. I have personally seen both birth certificates for Diane. One of Emma and One of Pearl. Diane was always told that Emma was her Aunt. The Providence records do not reflect that though. Someone out there knows the whole truth if they are still living. I believe Diane's son, Steve White is still alive. He lived in Carbondale, CO long ago, not sure if he is still there, he may have more answers for you. Diane's last name was Borden on her birth certificate, yet no one in the Kessler line has any paper trail of being connected to a Borden......strange.....................Good luck on your search. I've included some text below. It's all that I've been allowed to be entrusted with by the party that allowed me access to them.

See page 307 on right, 4th entry down:
http://www.archive.org/stream/alphabeti ... 6/mode/2up




http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rigen ... ry260.html


Last Name First Name (Maiden) Birth Death Cemetery#

NAJA ANTONE 1916 - 12 SEP 1978 (cremat)
NAJAC (INFANT DAUGHTE - 16 MAR 1848 PV003
NAJAC BETSEY ([ELLIS]) 1824 - 17 JUL 1857 PV001
NAJAC CATHERINE BLISS (GRANT) 1850 - 1943 PV001
NAJAC CHRISTOPHER C. 1817c - 22 SEP 1849 PV003
NAJAC EMMA (KESSLER) 1909 - 1986 PV001
NAJAC GEORGE W. - 28 DEC 1846 PV003
NAJAC HANNAH 1794 - 24 JUN 1844 PV001
NAJAC LEWIS 1819 - 5 MAY 1880 PV001
NAJAC LEWIS 1792 - 24 MAY 1837 PV001
NAJAC LIZZIE - PV001
NAJAC LOUIS G 1882 - 1970 PV001
NAJAC LYDIA FRANCES 1836 - 23 JUL 1911 PV001
NAJAC MASON H 1831c - 16 JUL 1832 PV001
NAJAC MUNSON HOYT, LT 1835 - 1922 PV001
NAJAC WILLIAM - PV001
NAJARIAN AZNIVE M. (ANTREASIAN*) 1884 - 22 AUG 1960 PV003
NAJARIAN ELIZABETH YEGSA (MAZMANIAN*) 1856 - 14 FEB 1940 PV003




http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... rompage=99
Individual Record FamilySearch™ U.S. Social Security Death Index
 
Search Results
 
Select record to download - Maximum: 50

Emma NAJAC 
    Birth Date: 15 Apr 1909 
    Death Date: Oct 1986 
    Social Security Number:  036-24-4066 
    State or Territory Where Number Was Issued:  Rhode Island
 
  Death Residence Localities
    ZIP Code: 02903 
    Localities:  Providence, Providence, Rhode Island
 

[twinsrwe]

Hello Kim and Orchard Life, welcome to the forum.

[twinsrwe]

I'm not sure if this is still an active blog, but am curious regarding this subject as I am a granddaughter of Emma (Kessler) Najac and am unaware of any of our family's affiliation with Lizzie Borden, nor a daughter named Dianne/Diane. There is reference to a statement above, a fact, that Emma Kessler Najac is the mother of Dianne; I'd like to know more because this is news to me. My grandmother had a sister named Elizabeth, and a niece named Diane, but the rest of the info, especially the Fall River & Borden references, are unknown to me. I'm wondering if, in researching Elizabeth & Emma sisters from that era, someone researched my family's genealogy & affiliated it somehow with Lizzie Borden by way of Dianne/Diane K. Borden Schilke?

Kim, in carefully looking at the information that ddborden has posted above, I find no evidence, whatsoever, that Lizzie Borden is related in any way to your grandmother, Emma (Kessler) Najac. I think you will find my following post answers the reasons of why I believe this and hopefully it will also answer the concerns that you have. I’d really appreciate any comments you may have after reading my next post.

[twinsrwe]

We all have the right to believe in whatever we wish, we also have the right to disagree with anyone’s beliefs. I am open to anyone’s theory, but I am extremely skeptical when information is posted, such as the extensive information that ddborden posted above, without genealogy sources named, links provided or documents posted. I prefer to see genealogy source results, links and documents, so that I can better form my own opinion.

Here are some examples of why I cannot agree with ddborden’s hypothesis:

Ddborden says that Emma Almaretta Kessler is Elizabeth Irene Kessler’s sister, and that he believes Elizabeth Irene Kessler and Lizzie Andrew Borden are the same person.

If in fact Elizabeth Kessler and Lizzie Borden are the same person, then Emma Almaretta Kessler and Emma Lenora Borden must also be the same person.

Ddborden says that Emma Almaretta Kessler was born in Providence, RI., on April 15, 1909, and died October 1986 in Providence, RI.

Emma Lenora Borden did reside in Providence, RI., from 1909-1913. However, Emma Borden was born in Fall River, MA. on March 1, 1851, and died in Newmarket, NH, on June 10, 1927.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/zykd8xn

Rebello, page 7:

Children of Andrew and Sarah Anthony Morse Borden

1. Emma Lenora Borden, born March 1, 1851, and died June 10, 1927.
2. Alice Esther Borden, born May 3, 1856, and died March 10, 1858. Cause of death was listed as “brian, dropsy on”. (hydrocephalus)

Source: Death Record

3. Lizzie Andrew Borden, born July 19, 1860, and died June 1, 1927.

Rebello, page 311:

Local newspapers reported that Emma went to Fairhaven, Massachusetts, when she left Lizzie. Listed below is an account of Emma’s whereabouts from 1905-1927:

1905-1908 The 1905 Fall River City Directory lists Emma as “Removed to Providence, Rhode Island. However, the Providence City Directories for 1905-1908 did not list Emma. She is first listed in the 1909 Providence City Directory at 211 Hope Street, the home of Preston H. Gardner, a relative of Emma’s. In view of this lack of notice, perhaps the newspapers were correct when they reported that Emma was in Fairhaven, Massachusetts, in the 1905-1908 period.

1909-1912 Emma is listed in the Providence City Directories at 211 Hope Street. However, she is also in the Fall River Directory in 1912 as residing at 114 Prospect Street, the home of Rev, Buck with those daughters Emma was friendly.

1913 Emma is listed in the Providence City Directory at 211 Hope Street.

1914-1918 Emma is listed in the Fall River City Directories at 114 Prospect Street, Rev, Buck’s home. The 1917 Fall River Telephone Directory also listed Emma at that address.

1919-1926 Emma boarded at the Minden Apartments, 123 Waterman Street, Apt. 80, on the East side of Providence. In 1923, Emma went to Newmarket, New Hampshire.

1927 Emma died in Newmarket, New Hampshire, June 10, 1927.

Ddborden says that Dianne’s mother was Emma Almaretta Kessler and that Dianne Borden Kessler was born in Providence, Rhode Island on July 14, 1933.

How can Emma Borden have possibly given birth to a daughter, 6 years AFTER she had passed away???

Source: http://tinyurl.com/zykd8xn

Ddborden says that Elizabeth Kessler was born in July of 1960, the same month and year as Lizzie Borden, her birth place was listed as Germany and she was listed as dead in 1916.

Lizzie Borden was born in Fall River MA., on July 19, 1860, and died on June 1, 1927.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/yb8msth

Ddborden posted the following information from two census reports: On the 1910 census from Providence, RI, here’s the parents and children and their birth years listed: FRED(FATHER)B-1857, ELIZABETH(MOTHER)B-1860, EMMA: B1884, BESSIE: B1891, FLORA: B1897. Ok, so now, here’s the info from the previous 1900 census from Jersey City, NJ: HARRY(FATHER) B1857, ELIZABETH(MOTHER) B-1860, EMMA B1884, BESSIE B1891-1892, FLORA B1897, PHILIP B1881, TILLIE B1882. ...

It is a known fact that Lizzie Borden was born, raised and died in Fall River, MA.; in other words, she lived her in entire life in Fall River, MA. After her acquittal she and Emma purchased a house on ‘The Hill’, which Lizzie named Maplecroft. Emma left Maplecroft and Lizzie in 1905; Lizzie continued to live in the house until she died in 1927. Notice that all of the children, except Flora, were born PRIOR to the murders of Andrew and Abby Borden in 1892. Hmmmm.

San Francisco Call, dated Wednesday, June 6, 1905

The San Francisco Call _June 6,1905.gif

My conclusion: I do not believe that Elizabeth Kessler and Lizzie Borden are the same person, nor do I believe that there is a strong probability that Lizzie Andrew Borden had children, nor I do not believe that Emma Borden also had a child. It is very obvious, to me, that ddborden presented us with a lot of conjecture and speculation, which in his mind, fits his hypothesis. However, as I stated above, we all have the right to believe whatever we wish.

[Kim]

Interesting. Am trying to obtain more info regarding genealogy. I haven't been able to find a link to the "Borden" family as of yet, but am acquiring tons of info regarding add'l family members.

[MysteryReader]

Interesting. Am trying to obtain more info regarding genealogy. I haven't been able to find a link to the "Borden" family as of yet, but am acquiring tons of info regarding add'l family members.

The general advice given to adopted children will work here- do a DNA testing... if your family members have done it, they'll pop up and you can connect that way.

[twinsrwe]

Hello, Chillingworth%, welcome to the forum.

Your post is interesting, but unless there is a photo of the Korean bride who bore a striking resemblance to Lizzie Borden, so that we can see for ourselves the resemblance, then I'm afraid I don't buy that 'someone's' story.