Lizzie Borden Society Forum

nbcatlover: When you're finished with that one, there are actually two more books you might get hold of by that feller if you're interested. One is called The further adventures of Quincy Adams Sawyer and Mason Corner folks; a novel , published ca. 1909, and the other is called The chronicles of Quincy Adams Sawyer, detective, published in 1912.

Both of these may be found at http://www.archive.org/. From the dropdown menu, select "American Libraries" and in the Search box, type Quincy Adams Sawyer. If you've got a broadband connection, they're available in pdf format.

What fun! The link you gave didn't work for me, Doug -- but I Googled Quincy Adams Sawyer and found the first of the series printed out on the site below. I fell right under its spell. Thanks, guys.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16414/16 ... #CHAPTER_I

Well, now that's odd... Let me fix that up there. Okay, I just tested the above-described method and it works.

Thanks, Doug. Now I can see them all!

Oh good!

You might be interested to know that Lorna Doone is one of the works included in Fifty Works of English Literature We Could Do Without, by Brigid Brophy, Charles Osborne and Michael Levey.

I don't always agree with their choices (Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, for example, though Through the Looking Glass meets with their approval) or their reasoning (one of them is into an embarrassingly naive pop-psychology, for example).

I myself have never read Lorna Doone, so I don't know what to tell you.

Lorna Doone is a pretty good cookie, too!

Lorna Doone is a pretty good cookie, too!

Agreed.

Liked the book and still like the cookies!

1bigsteve @ Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:04 am wrote:

Kat @ Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:34 pm wrote:I did get my Harry Potter on Saturday from the Library but other commitments kept me from starting it until Sunday.

So, you like kid's books too, Kat? -1bigsteve (o:

I don't really consider Harry Potter as a kids book- maybe Young Adult? But there are scores of kids who would disagree, I'm sure.
During the summer of the hurricanes I was reading one by flashlight, so I can say honestly I am enthralled by the series.
BTW: I am still reading it. Have not had much time to read lately.

Constantine @ Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:17 pm wrote:You might be interested to know that Lorna Doone is one of the works included in Fifty Works of English Literature We Could Do Without, by Brigid Brophy, Charles Osborne and Michael Levey.

I don't always agree with their choices (Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, for example, though Through the Looking Glass meets with their approval) or their reasoning (one of them is into an embarrassingly naive pop-psychology, for example).

I myself have never read Lorna Doone, so I don't know what to tell you.

I know what you mean, Constantine. It always amazes me how some people can stick their nose up at classics that have stood the test of time. There are some classics I've read, like Frankenstein, that I don't care for but I would never make a list of the World's Classics that we could do without (what do you mean Green Eggs and Ham is not a work of art?!) We all have our own interests and tastes. I like "Jamaica Inn" real well. I got the VHS with Jayne Seymour. What I never cared for are the "syruppy" romances, "...she threw herself into the dungeon and yearned for the day when her true love will arrive and once again ignite the flames of her passion... crap," whether their classics or not. I saw the part of "Anna Karenina" where she throw's herself in front of a locomotive so I think I'll pick up a copy and find out what is going on.

-1bigsteve (o:

I just started reading a book that I've seen in the past but felt it was some stupid "get-rich-quick" scam. It's called "Automatic Millionaire" by David Bach. He teaches how to set aside a percentage of your income each payday and put it into a retirement account and have it done automatically. Very simple, down-to-earth methods of saving money. This book has really hit me between the eyes. For those who think they cannot save anything, get this book. He teaches you exactly how everyone can save. Just a few dollars a day is all it takes. He has a series of books for married couples, older people, women and homeowner wannabes. I'm half-way through and I've learned a lot about saving. Today I bought his "Automatic Millionaire Workbook" that leads you by the hand step-by-step.

-1bigsteve (o:

When you get rich BigSteve, you can buy Maplecroft!

I am still reading Harry Potter bbut when I'm finished I will finally visit the Harry Potter thread here.

Today I just got 3 Rick Gearys in the mail!!!
The new one on The Benders, the first volume in the Victorian Murders series, and the case of Madeline Smith!
Yay!
I have all of them now.

Buy Maplecroft? Hmmm, sounds like a good idea. I'd invite you all over and we could have a real good toot of a time. Lizzie would be proud!

Rick Geary? I don't think I've heard of him yet. Any good?

-1bigsteve (o:

If you don't mind some links, here is Rick Geary:

http://www.rickgeary.com/

Books:
http://www.nbmpub.com/mystery/geary.html

Interview by our Susan for LABVM/L
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Write ... kGeary.htm

I'm reading a book called "The "IT" Girls". It's about Elinor Glyn and her sister Lucille. Elinor was a Victorian lady who became quite scandalous in those days by writing what people then (and now seem quite tame) thought were risque' romance novels. She coined the phrase "the IT girl" for Clara Bow. Her sister Lucille (also known as Lady Duff Gordon) was a famous couturiere who designed clothing for the rich and famous and got involved in designing things for the movies and theater. She was also a survivor of the Titanic disaster. She and her husband were called to task because of their involvement in making the boater row away from people still in the water while they had a half empty boat. They insist they did so because they feared they would be sucked under when the Titanic went down. I'm really enjoying this book because it captures a lot of how people in society thought at that time- a time when Lizzie was causing scandals herself.

Soon I will be reading "Tess of The d'Urbervilles." I usually stay away from most of the long, wordy classics but this one keep's drawing me to it.

I may start "Rebecca" soon. I loved the author's, "Jamaica Inn."

-1bigsteve (o:

Steve, don't know if you know or not, but, Jamaica Inn is a real place that still exists. I caught it first on that show Most Haunted when they mentioned Daphne du Maurier's novel. Heres a link to a website about the Jamaica Inn:

http://www.jamaicainn.co.uk/

That's what I heard a few years ago, Susan, that "Jamaica Inn" is a real place with a history. I thought that was interesting. I love stories set on the dark, moody English moors so Jamaica Inn is right up my alley.

I have Jamaica Inn on VHS. One of the Manor houses used in the filming was up for sale at that time so Jayne Seymour, who starred in the film, bought it. Her and her husband run part of it as a B&B.

The large house in Daphne's novel "Rebecca" is based on a real house that Daphne had some sort of connection with in her younger years. I have a book she wrote about her early life. I have not read it yet. Hitchcock's "The Birds" was based upon one of her books. Interesting writer.

-1bigsteve (o:

Though its a different type of venue, it still made me think of the Borden house B&B. Something happened there, the place still exists and you can visit it or stay over in the place. I love places like that, it so brings history to life in a way that just talking about it can never do. Have you ever been to England? If not and you do plan to go, it sounds like a great place for you to visit. Even during the day it looks very atmospheric!

Jane Seymour is such a fantastically beautiful woman, wish I knew her secret! And she always looks so in place whenever she does any sort of period pieces, some actresses can't pull that off. Hmmm, maybe she would consider a part in our Borden movie that we would love made? Maybe she could play one of the Chagnon ladies, the ones that testified to hearing a pounding sound on what they thought was the Borden's back fence the night before the murders.

I love old houses or places that have a history. Visiting them is like stepping back in time. I've never been to England myself. I love the cover on the early edition of "Jamaica Inn" that show's Mary Yellen hiding in the shadows watching smugglers unloading their cargo on a stormy and windy evening. I love the English countryside.

I agree with you on Jayne Seymour. She is something. She can play just about anything. I loved her in "Oh, Heavenly Dog." I laugh at that crazy movie. I love the way the camera really focused on the intent look in her face as she was looking at that dog and kept the camera on her for so long. The Director really got into that scene. I don't know which character Jayne would best play in a Borden movie. I'll bet she would make a great Bridget.

-1bigsteve (o:

1bigsteve @ Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:23 pm wrote:Soon I will be reading "Tess of The d'Urbervilles." I usually stay away from most of the long, wordy classics but this one keep's drawing me to it.

I may start "Rebecca" soon. I loved the author's, "Jamaica Inn."

-1bigsteve (o:

My 11th grade AP English teacher made us read Rebecca as our first novel that year.....I loved it, and consider it one of my favorite books of all time! The setting and the house play a huge role in the story!

"Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again...."

Although I first read Rebecca in my early teens every once in awhile I pick up it up and wooed by that opening line, fall back under its spell.

It's interesting that, even though she is basically the heroine of the novel, the first-person narrator is never named other than by the surname she shares with Rebecca. I wonder how much of a challenge that particular device presented to DuMaurier?

I used to make up given names for her.

Hi Caitlin. Have you ever read the sequel to "Rebecca?" I can't remember the title, something about "Mrs. DeWinter??." It was written by Susan Hill. I see it now and then and I've been tempted to read it after reading "Rebecca."

I've been interested in reading "Anna Karenina" and a few other old classics. Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein" bored me to tears but oddly I have a biography of Mary Shelley's mother, Mary Woolstonecraft Shelley. Last night I started "D.W. Griffith" by Richard Schickel but it is extremely "wordy." I may dump it and switch to "Haywire" by Brooke Hayward. I like books that "move" and get to the action and have something to say.

-1bigsteve (o:

1bigsteve @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:22 pm wrote:Hi Caitlin. Have you ever read the sequel to "Rebecca?" I can't remember the title, something about "Mrs. DeWinter??." It was written by Susan Hill. I see it now and then and I've been tempted to read it after reading "Rebecca."

I considered it, but my teacher told me that she had a few students read it, and they prefered leaving the ending of Rebecca how it was, rather than reading a sequal by another author. Although the ending does leave one wanting more....but for now I think I will not venture to read "Mrs. DeWinter".....for now! They did the same thing with Gone With The Wind too. Margaret Mitchell wanted to leave the story how it was. They had a contest asking writers everywhere to write a sequal and the best one won....I have no idea what the title is, but I hear that wasn't very good either.

Did you ever hear the story about how Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein? It's extremely fascinating!

I've read quite a few of these movie bios you all are alluding to. I went thru a phase that started when I was about 19 with Sarah Bernhardt.
My family called me "Sarah Heartburn and Her Acid Indigestion." I was a Thespian!
Sounds like a band name...
I went on to Marion Davies and Wm R. Hearst, and all the David Niven books, and Anita Loos and that led to the Round Table group and Dorothy Parker, whom a lot of members here are a fan of! And Garson Kanin and
etc. ec. etc.
Great stuff!

[edited for spelling! Yikes!]

"Sarah Heartburn and
Her Acid Indigestion." <<<===

Yes, I read about Mary's writing Frankenstein and how it came about. A simple contest between friends. It look's like there was an effort in those days to try to bring the dead back to life. Much like today, I guess.

I think I will avoid Susan Hill's sequel after reading your post. I never cared for sequels anyway even if they are written by the same author. Unless the author had a series books on that story already planned out ahead of time, writing a sequel after the story ended gives me the feeling that the author just needed to make more money. I would rather wonder how the characters lived after the story ends than to have the story "brought back to life" for the sake of making money. It would be like Darthvader coming back to life in a sequel after we saw him killed in the third movie. It wouldn't feel right. Sequels, to me, cheapen the original story and it's impact.

Kat- I read Marion Davies book, "The Times We Had" and David Niven's books as well as Anita Loos's book, "The Talmadge Sisters" and I have her "Kiss Hollywood Goodbye" which I have yet to read. Marion Davies had a stutter. She nick-named her friend Louise Brooks "Brooksie" but it came out as "B-b-b-b-brooksie." Louise Brooks teased Marion by imitating her "B-b-b-b-brooksie." Marion laughed it off but you know that must have hurt. Shame on you, Louise.

I never had any interest in "Queen Sara" myself. Maybe I should read her biography.

-1bigsteve (o:

Susan @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:55 am wrote:

Oh my gosh, Alka-Seltzer!!! I haven't seen an advertisement for this product in years. My father was a devoted user of Alka-Seltzer for acid indigestion; it must have worked for him, but, the taste of this stuff is awful!!! As a remedy for that "Morning After" feeling, it does not work nearly as well as drinking water and it is a lot cheaper to boot. Alcohol is a diuretic, therefore, consuming a glass or two of water before you go to bed, as well as after you wake up, will counteract the dehydrating effects of alcohol.

Thanks, for the memories, Susan.

Caitlin @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:22 am wrote:They did the same thing with Gone With The Wind too. Margaret Mitchell wanted to leave the story how it was.

I saw a collection of parody sequels some years ago. On the cover, Rhett Butler grabs Scarlett O'Hara and says, "On second thought, I DO give a damn!"

"Plop plop fizz fizz, oh what a relief it is!"

Remember that TV Alka-Seltzer jingle? I haven't seen that one in decades.

-1bigsteve (o:

(I killed this message. It was irrelevant.)

Caitlin @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:22 pm wrote:

1bigsteve @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:22 pm wrote:Hi Caitlin. Have you ever read the sequel to "Rebecca?" I can't remember the title, something about "Mrs. DeWinter??." It was written by Susan Hill. I see it now and then and I've been tempted to read it after reading "Rebecca."

I considered it, but my teacher told me that she had a few students read it, and they prefered leaving the ending of Rebecca how it was, rather than reading a sequal by another author. Although the ending does leave one wanting more....but for now I think I will not venture to read "Mrs. DeWinter".....for now! They did the same thing with Gone With The Wind too. Margaret Mitchell wanted to leave the story how it was. They had a contest asking writers everywhere to write a sequal and the best one won....I have no idea what the title is, but I hear that wasn't very good either.

Did you ever hear the story about how Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein? It's extremely fascinating!

The sequel to GWTW is Scarlett. The author is Alexandra Ripley. It does not compare to Ms. Mitchell's classic.





Tracy...

1bigsteve @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:34 pm wrote:"Plop plop fizz fizz, oh what a relief it is!"

Remember that TV Alka-Seltzer jingle? I haven't seen that one in decades.

-1bigsteve (o:

Steve - I do remember that jungle!!!

Here is a link with the above jingle in it: http://bc.syl.com/alkaseltzerbrandadver ... aigns.html. Unfortunately, Miles Laboratories introduced Alka-Seltzer in 1931 - a bit too late for the Borden household to have found relief from their upset stomachs.

This is a link explaining why Alka-Seltzer fizzes: http://science.howstuffworks.com/question116.htm

Do you remember Speedy Alka-Seltzer? http://www.theimaginaryworld.com/adtour02.html

theebmonique @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:13 pm wrote:The sequel to GWTW is Scarlett. The author is Alexandra Ripley. It does not compare to Ms. Mitchell's classic.

I agree, Tracy - there is absolutely no comparison!!!

I found the following links on Margaret Mitchell, interesting:

http://www.gwtw.org/gonewiththewind.html

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Acad ... garet.html

theebmonique @ Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:13 pm wrote:

Caitlin @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:22 pm wrote:

1bigsteve @ Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:22 pm wrote:Hi Caitlin. Have you ever read the sequel to "Rebecca?" I can't remember the title, something about "Mrs. DeWinter??." It was written by Susan Hill. I see it now and then and I've been tempted to read it after reading "Rebecca."

I considered it, but my teacher told me that she had a few students read it, and they prefered leaving the ending of Rebecca how it was, rather than reading a sequal by another author. Although the ending does leave one wanting more....but for now I think I will not venture to read "Mrs. DeWinter".....for now! They did the same thing with Gone With The Wind too. Margaret Mitchell wanted to leave the story how it was. They had a contest asking writers everywhere to write a sequal and the best one won....I have no idea what the title is, but I hear that wasn't very good either.

Did you ever hear the story about how Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein? It's extremely fascinating!

The sequel to GWTW is Scarlett. The author is Alexandra Ripley. It does not compare to Ms. Mitchell's classic.





Tracy...

I don't think I have ever read, or heard of, a sequel that was as good as the original, certainly not when it is written by another author. I think writers have a tendancy to throw too much into a sequel (if this is good then a whole lot more of it should be better) and in the process the story is ruined. Less is more. I'm alway's left with a bad taste in my mouth when I see a sequel, whether book or film. I know money is probably the main reason for writing it. It's better not to fool with a classic.


-1bigsteve (o:

This w/e I finally got around to The Devil in the White City by Erik Larson, © 2003.

On page 153, the author states, "In taking stock of 1891, the Chicago Tribune reported that 5,906 people had been murdered in America, nearly 40 percent more than in 1890. The increase included Mr & Mrs Borden of Fall River, Massachusetts."

Imagine Andrew & Abby's shock as they sat & read that in their morning papers.



The other Lizzie reference occurs on page 12---"A young woman named Borden killed her parents."

In his "Notes and Sources" section, listed by page number, Larson does not give any references for his Lizzie statements. He also proudly states, "I do not employ researchers, nor did I conduct any primary research using the Internet." Quite frankly, a fact checker would not have hurt! It's too bad---he may have found out Lizzie was actually reported to have visited the World's Fair in Chicago. As it stands, he got everything about her completely wrong.

Stuff like this has personally driven me crazy since Grade 6 when my history teacher told the class that King Henry VIII had a dozen wives & he chopped off all of their heads. I put up my hand & corrected him.

I haven't changed much

I know where you are coming from, Tina-Kate. I feel the same aggravation when I read about "magic bullets." It would be nice if authors took more time and did detailed research, got the facts straight and kept their personal bias out of it. "Just the facts, mam" doesn't seem to mean anything anymore. One thing I learned in my High School US Government class is that ALL newspapers and news sources are biased. So, what are we reading?

-1bigsteve (o:

I'm reading "The Glitter and the Gold" by Consuelo Vanderbilt. It is her biography of her life in the highest society of the eighteen nineties and the golden years of the new century. I'm sure Lizzie must have been green with envy.

Oooh, Ellen---I went thru a Vanderbilt period earlier this year. I picked up a copy of Grace Vanderbilt's biography (written by her son) at our library's semi-annual giant book sale. I think it was called, Queen of the Golden Age. Grace was married to "Neily", Cornelius Vanderbilt III. Her mother-in-law owned the Breakers, but Grace was rarely there as the Vanderbilts had more or less disowned Neily for marrying her, even tho he was the eldest son/heir.

Next thing I knew, I kept seing "Biltmore" everywhere---old movies, TV shows, commercials!

In The Devil in the White City, it states that Frederick Law Olmstead was working on the grounds at Biltmore @ the same time as his company was working on the Chicago World's Fair.

Thanks to a generous gift from a friend I'm now reading "The Heart of the Antarctic", volume I, by E.H. Shackleton. The two volume set covers his 1907-1909 voyage and his attempt at the south pole.

The story of Shackleton's attempt at the south pole is an interesting tale, Harry. I read a book on his adventures a couple of years ago and I enjoyed it.

-1bigsteve (o:

I'm reading Self Portrait by Gene Tierney.

Just as an aside, I thought I'd post a link I found concerning what became of Bette Davis's daughter B.D. Hyman, author of My Mother's Keeper.

http://www.bdhyman.com/

I've been reading Borden genealogy for the past 2 days. I love it!

I also am reading Terence's e-mail correspondence with Fritz Aldiz and a Geary graphic retelling of the Bloody Benders of Kansas.

I'm about to start reading "Titanic Survivor" by Violet Jessop. This will be the first thing on the Titanic that I've ever read.

I've only read the first few pages of my copy of "Titanic Survivor," Angel, but it look's like it is a good one.

-1bigsteve (o:

Allen @ Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:55 am wrote:I'm reading Self Portrait by Gene Tierney.

Just as an aside, I thought I'd post a link I found concerning what became of Bette Davis's daughter B.D. Hyman, author of My Mother's Keeper.

http://www.bdhyman.com/

I read "Self-Portrait" many moons ago Allen, and I enjoyed it. The poor girl had some problems. I seem to remember reading a piece about her in one of those "What Ever Became Of..." type books that she was living with her mother shortly before Gene died.

My dad likes Bette Davis but I never cared for her myself even though I like her performances. Bette co-starred in a film with a friend of mine and they evidently couldn't stand each other. I've been tempted to read Bette's "This 'n That" but I just don't have that much interest in her, but who knows I may end up liking the crusty 'ol gal. But, I'll take her over Joan Crawford any day! Crawford was just pure mean, in my opinion. I'm glad to see Bette's daughter doing something worthwhile.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat @ Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:13 pm wrote:I've been reading Borden genealogy for the past 2 days. I love it!

I also am reading Terence's e-mail correspondence with Fritz Aldiz and a Geary graphic retelling of the Bloody Benders of Kansas.

I first heard of the "Bloody Benders" in Barry Paris's book "Louise Brooks" page 10. They lured 11 people to their deaths in Cherryvale in 1872-1873 before escaping into Indian country. Their exploits have been "re-done" in many western movies and TV shows including "How The West Was Won" and an episode of "The Big Valley." What a gruesome family!

-1bigsteve (o:

I finally read Rick Geary's The Borden Tragedy. Not bad as an intro piece to Lizzie.

Also read Karen Elizabeth Chaney's Lizzie Borden, an mix of truth and error. Interesting pieces were the naming of a Philip Gordon Reid from Albany as a man who claimed to be Andrew's illegitamite (where's that spellcheck?) son and a comment that Lizzie gave up dancing and theatre when she made a "profession of faith" to the Congregational Church.

Best read so far this summer is Hetty by Charles Slack. Fast paced read about Hetty Howland Robinson Green, the so-called witch of Wall Street, who was at one time the richest woman in the world. Her attitudes towards money and living plain make Andrew Borden look extravagant. Her daughter Sylvia was 38 when her mother let her get married. Hetty made Sylvia's husband signed a pre-nuptial agreement so he could not claim any of Sylvia's estate if she died before him. Highly recommended read.