Lizzie Borden Society Forum

That’s very good so far- I can see that…I now think it says
1 casket less plate and handles = no extras added, like the name plate and the handles to carry it.
They’d probably be metal and expensive but how would the buyer/user carry it? Hmmm…
And maybe there was sold an outer casket and then a plain box that goes inside? Thanks!
(Like ye olde pine box?)
And there’s 7 something’s at 3.50 each.
If we saw other examples of this persons writing we could probably figure it out
I wonder if Borden and Almy’s clerk wrote this: it looks like a female, but I don’t know if females routinely had jobs back then. It would be interesting to know.

Next is John Vinnicum Morse’s land in Hastings, Iowa. Looking at neighbors is always interesting. He has “G.E.Shaw” on 2 sides of his property.
If you clic on it it is easier to read.

“Our” JVM -Hastings, Iowa

This is where Lizzie signed for a share of the Morse estate, (from a “Residuary Account”) that he did not intend. But there was a challenge on these shares (not by Borden), and the estate settled by awarding specific shares- the court decided. Emma refused hers but since Lizbeth had Cooke looking out for her interests it came to her after all. Emma’s share was finally claimed by Preston Gardner (her Executor) on her behalf after her death in 1927, and it was awarded her estate.

Sixth- …[certain] real estate…be sold…divided equally…except those named Borden, who are not in need of it.
G.E. Shaw was Executer of JVM’s last will.
Rebello pgs 71-75

I apologize that I do not have the source for this list- it’s not something I use, but someone may find it useful. (Not verified by moi)
Edit here: It came from a file I had called “Joe,” so that is Joe Carlson.

Wow....doesn't seem that Hastings and surroundings have changed much in >100 years. I believe John's place would have been bottom center-right, with that lower horizontal road being the northern boundary. I zoomed in and there are no buildings anywhere around....probably farmland owned by a corporation and its all growing crops, not families.

That’s cool thanks! I had not thought of comparing old and new!

Remember the group photo of Morses and I saw what I thought were Masonic symbols created by certain gentlemen’s hand positions? They seemed intentional. I’ve been working on the genealogy of the line from William Bradford Morse (Lizzie & Emma Borden’s Uncle), whose kids were visiting Fall River from Minnesota the summer the elder Bordens were murdered.
To refresh your minds:

Here are 2 sons of William Bradford Morse from Find a Grave.
Herbert b.1872 married Lydia P. Zoerb, 8-18-1893. He died in 1951- and he has a Masonic symbol on his stone!
Also plz see his brother, William Mason Morse, b. 3-24-1876- he married twice: Eva Woodworth and Mina Marie Griepentrog after a divorce. His grave marker also has the Masonic symbol, and auxiliary information states he was a contractor in *concrete work.* He had Mason in his name, for gash sakes, and worked in concrete. Ta-Da!

(I’m not implying they are in the group photo, but that at least the Masonic tie, I think, has been proven and passed down.)

I don’t know any Masons, and all I know is what I’ve seen on tv in the last 10 years. A high degree master came out and was offering information about the Lodge that was never discussed before. A Native American Elder (Mahooty) also came out around the same time, disclosing the beliefs and rites and rituals of tribes in his area (Utah, or Four Corners) and viewing of sacred petroglyphs on their land which they had not done before. Area 51 was disclosed by the Gov…the secrets are being revealed in this decade for some reason.

It’s my understanding that the Masons took care of each other in distress, and right or wrong were bound by their brotherhood to help each other: The tenants say to a limit that is not against the law, but I would think that if they are family, and are Masons, they might do more.
I have wondered if Morse Masons would help the Borden family, before, during or after the murders. It’s another level of interest to me, that this case holds. There were about 10 Morses around Fall River and Environs at the time. (4 were female so maybe I shouldn’t count them, but still, a possible local Lodge would count as a brotherhood.) Thinking in terms even just as cleanup after the crime…or conspiracy…?

The Knowlton Papers, The Commonwealth of Massachusetts vs. Lizzie A. Borden, 1892- 1893, Fall River Historical Society, 1994,
—Note to Knowlton and a “Mystery” to read free if you choose— I have not read it so I can’t recommend it—(also the note was written Aug 10, figuring how much the public really knew about the Borden murders as early as that to proclaim the book has a “resemblance?”)

—see link

HK003
Postal card, handwritten in ink.

Brooklyn, N. Y., Aug, 10,'92
Dear Sir:-
A lately published detective story, a novel entitled The Catherwood
Mystery, by Albert P. Southwick, bears a wonderful resemblance to the conditions surrounding the Borden tragedy of your city.
Respectfully, B.

https://archive.org/details/catherwoodm ... 4/mode/1up

A little gallows humor is provided by the Fall River Death register, 1892. Apparently the cause of the Borden's death was "shock". Maybe Dr. Bowen filled out the register.

Column to the far right is the cause of death. It reads "Shock from assault with an axe or large hatchet".
Click on image to enlarge

Wow I never knew that! That’s new, thanks.
~ ~ ~ ~
I found another Mason: Hiram Harrington!
Glossary A in Knowlton Papers states, in part:
… “He served as high priest for the Royal Arch Chapter of the Masons.”

Hmmmm….

"High Priest".....for some reason makes me think of the bad guy in Indiana Jones Temple of Doom trying to rip Indy's heart out!

Well, as I mentioned, I don’t know any Masons…

Richard Borden’s handwritten will- only one page out of 2 and a 1/2! This is Abraham’s father, Lizzie’s ggrandfather, who died in 1795. These old wills take a lot of time through probate.
In one case, a sister of Abraham was already remarried before her first husband’s estate was distributed!
I don’t expect anyone to try to read it- but at least I could pick out the names…they seem to pop right off the page: they are kind of in the middle every so often. Do they plan that?

Earlier, I had shown a picture of the Miller/ Bowen house being deconstructed, and thought there had been a fire, but couldn’t find the news item.
Well, it was Mrs. Churchill’s house which had the fire, tho she was long gone. But think how close to the Borden house!

Poor Mrs Dr Chagnon
From the LBS Forum Archive (us, 2002)
The rest of the story, according to the Fall River newspapers, plural:

"LEAPED TO DEATH
FATAL INJURIES TO MRS. J.B. CHAGNON AT ST. HYACINTHE
BUILDING HAD CAUGHT FIRE
TWO LADS BURNED TO DEATH AND NUNS SEVERELY HURT.

May 16, 1898

A St. Hyacinthe, Que., dispatch says:
A disastrous fire occurred here early this morning, when theMetairie St. Joseph was burned, causing the loss of seven lives, and the injury of a number of inmates, of whom there were about 200 in the institution, by jumping from windows. There are also five persons unaccounted for. The cause of the fire is unknown. The dead are: Two boys named Beauchemin; Sisters Alexandrina, Philomena and Des Agnes; Mrs. Guertin, a boarder; Mrs. Dr. Chagnon, of Fall River, Mass..."

........
"The news of the death of Mrs. Marie Anne Chagnon, wife of Dr. John B Chagnon of this city, which happened today, at St. Hyacinthe, Can., was received with widespread regret in this city where the deceased was generally known and highly esteemed. The Metairie St. Joseph, where Mrs. Chagnon met her death, is a sort of private boarding house for retired members of the clergy and an ecclesiastical summer resort. Before the summer season the nuns who keep the place take boarders for a few weeks at a time.

Mrs. Chagnon was in Canada for the purpose of refitting the new homestead bought by the doctor, which is situated next door to the metairie. Mr. and Mrs. Chagnon and their daughter were going to remove there next winter or earlier to reside. The work was almost completed, and Mrs. Chagnon had written to her husband that everything was according to her liking, and that she would come back in a few days."

...........
"Mrs. Chagnon was only 54 years old, and her maiden name was Marie Anne Gigault. She married first Desire Phaneuf, a merchant from St. Damase, Can., and later Dr. Chagnon, whose second wife she was. She has a son living in this city, Dr. J.S. Phaneuf of Globe Village, and another now in the Klondike regions. She has a brother who is an Oblate Father at Lowell, Mass., and another a government employee at Ottawa.

She leaves here her husband and his children, and a large circle of friends and relatives. The doctor and his family, as well as the children of the deceased, have the full sympathy of the public in this trying hour of sorrow. The remains of the deceased will probably be buried in Canada."

A reminder on how to get to Archives here:

https://lizzieandrewborden.com/archive.htm

2002 to 2004, but please do not be frustrated by links that have expired. I have tried to help clean it up in there but good luck to you. Also, there is no search feature.
But there’s good stuff!

A link to the discussion about the Chagnon family, tho the topic title is “Lucy Collett”:
however I had saved it as text and stored it on my disc I’ve been sharing.
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive2 ... ollett.htm

Don’t know the newspaper, and it’s page 2 and 3 and some of it’s wrong, but hope you enjoy
Plz clic on pics

This, in some parts, sounds like we read it before, but actually we haven’t- there’s a hurdy-gurdy involved!

I don’t know if any of you remember Prof Starr and his *subsurface interface radar* scanner- for a while he seemed to be a big threat to Legitimate Scholars who cringed when he wanted to dig up historical graves…

News item, story not attached, Borden house : picture of the sofa wall with a console TV 1980, private home. I just noticed the furniture placement is off sides, and not centered, like the antique sofa was not centered, which used to bother me.

Nice things to say about Lizzie:
And, do we think Lizzie made her own muffins? I can’t decide…but every time I make cookies, I wonder if Lizzie made her own cookies
Ruby Cameron said Lizzie gave her jelly rolls to eat when Ruby came to visit with David Anthony.

Now, this an odd remembrance about Lizzie, but it sounds like she did see Lizzie dressed in manly hats and shoes. Could that also have been a habit at Second Street and contribute in some way to this crime, if real? Witness states as well, that *Lizzie was a perfect lady,* a seeming contradiction?
In romance books, often the heroine dressed like a boy to try life for some adventure, unhampered by her sex and long, trailing gowns. Some ladies probably dressed like that in real life, as well, at the time,

Quick fact check on Alice's claim to call on the Borden home on Second Street.

Alice A. Coombs married Albert E. Dean July 17, 1894. Albert was 23 and Alice 18.
Alice died about 5 years after this article (105 years old!) in 1980.

In 1892, the James Coombs (or Coombes) family lived at 15 Fifth Street. 3 blocks almost due east of the Borden house. So definitely within easy walking distance.

Go Chiefs!

Thanks!

Thanks for the verification and lookup, camgarsky! Additional info is always good!

I love this article, but not sure why it has such a title.
Another *nice* view of Lizzie.

Certificate is real in my hands and initials are done in “Markup” photo edit.
Lizzie is not named but the time frame is contemporaneous .
(Good “Probe” word)

Ditto, gift to me

Lowell, MA, and Thank You to whomever gave them to me: it was either Stefani or Our Stewie.

“Local” Train stations post cards

Trains/ see Emma waving? Going home an heiress!

Train station

Weir Village was a stop on the train line

Lost a station…note says “Now an A&P”

https://www.swanseamass.org/history/articles/rr.html

Swansea site news item link- train station, no date, no newspaper banner.

We’ve seen the map of the area around Andrew’s farm- this would be the train station.

I believe these were the train stations our Borden ladies would have used.

Oh I want to show the Borden sitting room *without sofa*.
I remarked earlier on this page about the wall where the bloody sofa had stood. There was a tv there in 1980.
We had, in the past, a discussion on why the sofa was not centered on the main wall. I think it was MB who personally eyeball-measured the overhang of the mantle in the sitting room next to the entrance to the kitchen door, and decided it stuck out too far to accommodate ladies in those big gowns of the day, to pass by and then circumnavigate the sofa, unless it was closer to the DR doorway, off center. It was awkward. ( We had the original sofa dimensions, btw, from testimony.)

I redecorated the room in 2003!
I used the (B&B) parlor chairs to create a seating arrangement that brought them further into the room, and that cosied up to the fireplace, leaving a natural corridor or passageway behind the furniture, and made the *sofa wall* a statement wall with extra family pictures. (The sofa would then be placed on the other side of the room in front of the windows where lingering light from outside would boost Andrews reading time before needing to light a lamp.)

Our Susan, back in 2003 wrote a first chapter of what was to be a parody, and conjoin the life of Lizzie in her fantasies with Alice in Wonderland.

Partial-(near the end of the first chapter: but I don’t think we ever got chapter 2…) Lizzie was following a pigeon down a privy hole…

Her eye fell on a little wicker box that was lying under the mantle: she opened it, and found in it some pieces of folded lead and a very big molasses cookie, on which the words "EAT ME" were beautifully marked in sugar icing. "Well, I'll eat it," said Lizzie, "and if it makes me grow larger, I can reach the key, and if it makes me grow smaller, I can creep under the door: so either way I'll get into the garden, and I don't care which happens!" For you see, our Lizzie was quite an impatient and impetuous girl: she did not want to wait and see if the mantle would melt at all. She wanted her own way now!

I was inspired to create a fantasy realm in the Borden house for our Lizzie.

Written by Peter Levins and illustrated by Dan Content. Wow, jazzy cover! Sorry it’s illegible, but you probably already know what it says…and you’d probably be more right than the article.. …and others made “fakefotos” too!

Curious......is that the style of apron you envision Bridget or the other ladies of the house wore? Or do you think more just a waste tie and the apron protect the lower part of body?

I do think the aprons would have the bib coverage at the top, and full coverage of the front and sides, but can’t quite envision the frills.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lizzie finally changes her name to Lizbeth, and the Fall River City Directory misspells her new name. We also find Emma has removed to Providence, 1905. The sisters have split.

There must be a direct connection between the name change and Emma's estrangement since apparently they occurred at the same time.

Wish I was clever enough to do anything more than speculate.

Per the same 1905 Directory, Coachman Joseph Tetrault and Housekeep Hannah Nelson both lived at 306 French at that time. I think we all know the Tetrault scuttlebutt.

I think it’s weird that when Emma moved everybody was to know about it because it was published in the directory! No privacy at all. Can you imagine moving and your info blasted as to where you went?
BTW, weren’t these directories basically info gathered before the year published? They probably worked hard at getting as close to current as possible, but if they published, say, in January 1905, they wrote the notation sometime in 1904, right?

Directory information is gathered November of prior year. Edits can be requested up to January and I believe I've read it is printed in February.
So that tells me that Emma either moved out December or January or she/Lizzie provided the information at the time of the original data gathering (November).

I'm not a New Englander, but the timing of her move out is interesting because moving would have been miserable in the dead of winter. But if they are permanently estranged, it was clearly a severe breakup and Emma didn't care about weather.

Lizzie’s birth record. There are many copies of this in my files- probably at least 4- and they represent the date that each person I knew who had requested the form. This request was dated 2006.
Plz click on pic

Lizzie’s birth record. 2 parts.