The Murder of Abby Borden

[william]

If the "flap" wound was the first blow and Abby was facing her assailant, there is a strong possiblility that there would be defensive wounds on her hands or arms. Most of the wounds were on the back of her skull. I believe that one of these blows was the initial one. Abby was dead or unconscious when the flap wound occurred.
There is little possibility of resolving this scenario if we cannot assign a time sequence to each of the wounds.

I believe that Abby was kneeling on the floor and facing away from her attacker when the first blow was struck - instead of falling full length, she would have just toppled over. I don't think this would make much of a disturbance which is why no one heard a noise. This would also explain why all of the objects on the dresser were undisturbed.

[sguthmann]

If the "flap" wound was the first blow and Abby was facing her assailant, there is a strong possiblility that there would be defensive wounds on her hands or arms. Most of the wounds were on the back of her skull. I believe that one of these blows was the initial one. Abby was dead or unconscious when the flap wound occurred.

I do not agree. I think that the first blow came when Abby was facing her assailant, and that it so stunned her, mentally more so than physically, that by the time she had processed what happened, she was well on her way to being a goner. I think that is why you don't see defensive wounds on the hands or arms. We know from the wounds that the majority likely came when she was on the floor, so she would not be expected to have defensive wounds from that position.

believe that Abby was kneeling on the floor and facing away from her attacker when the first blow was struck - instead of falling full length, she would have just toppled over. I don't think this would make much of a disturbance which is why no one heard a noise. This would also explain why all of the objects on the dresser were undisturbed

Again, I disagree. Even kneeling, her body falling over should have been audible and also would be expected to have had some effect on the items on the dresser or pictures on the wall. And who's to say that no one heard a noise? We just have Lizzie's and Bridget's word on that...and one or both could have been lying.

Looking at the photos Kat posted with the chairs in place, it makes me wonder even more how such a large woman, caught off guard and off balance, managed to fall in that narrow place between the bed and dresser without knocking things over? I'm beginning to wonder if that is where she was placed after being knocked out, where the final blows were delivered, and where her assailant, knowing Abby was beyond help, left the body to bleed out?

[Kat]

Those who think the flap wound came after another- please describe how if Abby fell on her face, she ended face up at some point to gain the facial/ear area wound, and then was face down again, to gain the back of the head wounds?

I'm not discounting it- I just don't see it yet. Sounds complicated?

Personally, I am only attempting to place her in the rocker because that is close to the mop board blood spots by the window and we never knew how that blood got there- around the corner of the bureau, so to speak.

Susan found those chairs for me, BTW!!

[Harry]

I am not a total believer (yet) in the theory she was standing up facing the window when she was first struck but I can see it is possible.

If the the blow to the back was the first and did not kill her she may have turned around facing her attacker and then the flap-wound blow was struck. Dr. Dolan testified at the Prelim, p103, about the back wound:

"A. There was one wound on the back I found afterwards, not at that time.
Q. Where did you fine (sic) that?
A. The lower end of the wound was immediately over the spine, about four inches below the juncture of the neck and the body. That then ran forwards, and to the left two and a half inches long.
Q. How deep?
A. Two and a half inches deep.
Q. Cut through to the spine?
A. It did not touch the bone, because it did not go down the full length of the blade; it made a conical wound."

It sounds like this wound only struck flesh and meat and therefore not fatal nor paralyzing. It certainly would cause her to turn to see its source.

Not completely on topic but Dr. Dolan goes on to testify, p104:

"Q. What blood was there, if any, on her clothing?
A. The front of the clothing was very much soaked, that is, down to the chest, and also the back, down about half way, of course going right through to her underclothing."

When you look at the photos of Abby, especially the one without the bed, you don't see any blood on her back. In fact, her back is higher than her head which would make it difficult, if not impossible, for blood to be on her back. Blood, like water, does not run uphill. If there was blood it would have had to originate from the blow to the back or from being rolled over on the floor. The photo shows blood only forward and to the side of her head, none near her back. The dark blood stain shows clearly against the dark colored rug but not against the light colored dress Abby had on.

[Angel]

Maybe the first blows to the back caused Abby to be pushed forward against the wall, thus giving her the facial bruises. She then could have turned around and then been struck again, causing the flap wound. At that point she may have reeled around and down to the floor to try to cover her head to protect herself, and that's how she got into that weird position.

[Allen]

I believe there was testimony at the trial that Abby's arms had been more above her head when she was first seen. I'm not sure at this point who testified to this, but I will say uncertainly that I believe it was doctor Dolan.

[Audrey]

What if Abbie had her arms out--palms out, fingers nearly touching the tips of the fingers on her other hand, elbows out.... to push something/someone away?

[theebmonique]

I know there has been mention of Abby's body being moved, but I wonder if it was moved 'that much'...as the pool of blood surrounding her head seems to be consistant with her head being right where it is in the picture. I am thinking that if the body had been moved around much at all, the blood arond her head would not be as distinct as it is in the photos we all know so well.


Tracy...

[sguthmann]

A few thoughts on the wounds and their order...

Flap wound - If not the first blow, it would definitely have had to come within the first few blows of the assailant. In my mind, there's simply no other way to account for it.

Back wound - I'm inclined to think that this was a later wound...one delivered when Abby was already lying on the floor. The fact that it wasn't immediately noticable, that it did not bleed out very much relative to the other wounds tells me that it would have been one of the last (a good deal of blood loss had already occurred), and one delivered while she was already on the ground (gravity).

[Kat]

That's a good point. I always wondered why they never even took note of that wound until the second autopsy on the 11th.
I thought maybe modesty was involved.
But if it were a late wound and did not actively bleed, only seeped, as it were, that could account for their missing it. I usually thought, along with others, that it might have been the second wound.
It probably was later- after death at least.

Let me find the picture of the rug removed. It's a big piece of rug. I'd think that would show there was a lot of blood under Abby which we can't see in these pictures.

[Kat]

Rug removed. Our original member sent me this.

[Allen]

A few thoughts on the wounds and their order...

Flap wound - If not the first blow, it would definitely have had to come within the first few blows of the assailant. In my mind, there's simply no other way to account for it.

Back wound - I'm inclined to think that this was a later wound...one delivered when Abby was already lying on the floor. The fact that it wasn't immediately noticable, that it did not bleed out very much relative to the other wounds tells me that it would have been one of the last (a good deal of blood loss had already occurred), and one delivered while she was already on the ground (gravity).

I don't know, that wound was superficial and pretty shallow. There may have been some bleeding that we can't see in the pictures as well. Crime scene photo's are a helpful tool, but I've noticed that the older crime scene photos can really leave you wanting for more evidence and information. They just weren't that good nor do I think we can totally rely on them for all the evidence. I think they were used more to actually record the fact that a murder HAD occured for posterity more than they were actually used to record how, why, and to what extent the victim had been injured. If this were the case, I don't think Andrew would've been photographed from what seemed like a good distance away. His injuries could hardly be documented in those pictures. Neither could Abby's. Even the autopsy photo's leave me wanting. Also, this was really the first time that photographs of a crime scene had been taken, wasn't this case one of the earliest for crime scene photography in America?

[Haulover]

a better quality print makes a big difference. at the FRHS last august, harry and i looked at a print of this and saw something you can't see in this one -- and it's rather shocking, really -- the huge amount of blood that has poured out of her head and solidified like rubber. it's not like a "pool" of blood. it's sculptural-looking.

[Ad]

Does the FRHS still sell reprints of the photos taken at the time of the murders. The crime scenes, backyard, well, barn etc, etc?? I know they used to.
I would love to get a set.

[Kat]

2 and a half inches deep! That's the depth of your forefinger!

"FIRST an incised wound 2 and 1/2 inches in length, and 2 and 1/2 inches in depth. The lower angle of the wound was over his spine and four inches below the junction of neck with body, and extending thence upward and outward to the left."

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... Borden.htm

--I will say that it's possible some of that depth was due to inflammation and decay (which might cancel each other out...). But it's called "incised" and I think that means as deep as it is long. Appearance-wise, it would not look very long, but that is deep, don't you think?

[theebmonique]

-- the huge amount of blood that has poured out of her head and solidified like rubber. it's not like a "pool" of blood. it's sculptural-looking.

This is what I pictured in my head when I made my post above.

But it's called "incised" and I think that means as deep as it is long. Appearance-wise, it would not look very long, but that is deep, don't you think?

To the best of my medical knowledge, incised means cut, to be cut. In the autopsy report on Abby, her body is described as: very well nourished and very fleshy.... The very fleshy part makes me think the depth of the wound is less likely to be a cause for alarm/concern. I see this as possibly meaning the blade of the instrument has(had) to go through a thicker layer of fatty material before coming in contact with anything critical.


Tracy...

[snokkums]

What I am wondering is that why no-one heard a 200 pound Abby fall to the floor. Also, if she was making the bed or something, why wasn't she grasping at the bedding and pulling it with her to the floor?

[Kat]

To the best of my medical knowledge, incised means cut, to be cut. In the autopsy report on Abby, her body is described as: very well nourished and very fleshy.... The very fleshy part makes me think the depth of the wound is less likely to be a cause for alarm/concern. I see this as possibly meaning the blade of the instrument has(had) to go through a thicker layer of fatty material before coming in contact with anything critical.

--Tracy

I've looked in an old dictionary and it doesn't say that it is a cut that is long as it is deep. But then again, it might be a forensic term used at autopsy. So it might be in some book which specifies those kinds of descriptive terms. The only reason I say I have heard this, is it was in a Sue Grafton book or a Patricia Cornwell. Anyway- a modern mystery writer, whose definition I believed at the time- or at least filed away the term.
As to people's backs, I don't think they particulary get fat, do they? Maybe a hunch back somewhat due to osteoporosis. But Abby wasn't labeled as having that.
Do you think Women's backs get so much fat deposited that 2 1/2" deep wound would not be considered deep?

[Allen]

I have looked for information on it, and all the information I have found on the term incised seems to refer to a wound that is clean cut, due to use of a sharp instrument. It doesn't have anything to do with the size of the wound. It refers to the type of wound, not the size.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictio ... ised+wound


A small extract taken from Nicole Brown Simpsons autopsy report.

"DESCRIPTION OF INCISED WOUND OF NECK:

The incised wound of the neck is gaping and exposes the larynx and
cervical vertebral column. It measures 5 1/2 x 2 1/2 inches in length and
is found at the level of the superior border of the larynx.

After approximation of the edges, it is seen to be diagonally oriented on
the right side and transversely oriented from the midline to the left
side. On the right side it is upwardly angulated toward the right earlobe
and extends for 4 inches from the midline. On the left side it is
transversely oriented and extends 2 1/2 inches to the anterior border of
the left sternocleidomastoid muscle. The edges of the wound are smooth,
with subcutaneous and intramuscular hemorrhage, fresh, dark red purple, is evident."

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cas45.htm



From another autopsy report:

"Description of incised wounds:

1. There is an incised wound to the palmar surface of the right hand at the base of the ring finger. The wound is 3/4 inch in length and does not penetrate the subcutaneous layer."

http://www.crimescene.com/taylor/autops ... _dale.html

"INCISED WOUNDS
Defined as injuries caused by sharp objects, such as a knife or glass.There is a clean division of the skin and tissues leaving the surrounding margins almost free from damage. The types of incised wounds vary from cuts or slashes to penetrating stab wounds. "

http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/stude ... 2/stab.htm

[theebmonique]

To the best of my medical knowledge, incised means cut, to be cut. In the autopsy report on Abby, her body is described as: very well nourished and very fleshy.... The very fleshy part makes me think the depth of the wound is less likely to be a cause for alarm/concern. I see this as possibly meaning the blade of the instrument has(had) to go through a thicker layer of fatty material before coming in contact with anything critical.

--Tracy

I've looked in an old dictionary and it doesn't say that it is a cut that is long as it is deep. But then again, it might be a forensic term used at autopsy. So it might be in some book which specifies those kinds of descriptive terms. The only reason I say I have heard this, is it was in a Sue Grafton book or a Patricia Cornwell. Anyway- a modern mystery writer, whose definition I believed at the time- or at least filed away the term.
As to people's backs, I don't think they particulary get fat, do they? Maybe a hunch back somewhat due to osteoporosis. But Abby wasn't labeled as having that.
Do you think Women's backs get so much fat deposited that 2 1/2" deep wound would not be considered deep?

I am not meaning to say that a 2 1/2 inch wound is not deep per se, but that because people can have a thicker layer of flesh (fatty tissue) when they are on the heavier side. With that thicker layer, there will be 'more' for a hatchet blade, for example, to go through before it hits anything critical like a spinal column. If the same wound ahd been inflicted on a rather thin person, there would probably have been some spinal cord involvement. I say this because the wound description in the autopsy report includes that the lower angle was over the spine.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/incise

incise

Main Entry: in·cise
Pronunciation: in-'sIz, -'sIs
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): in·cised; in·cis·ing
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French inciser, from Latin incisus, past participle of incidere, from in- + caedere to cut
1 : to cut into
2 a : to carve figures, letters, or devices into : ENGRAVE b : to carve (as an inscription) into a surface


Tracy...

[Allen]

I went a tad over because I'm not the best using that little paint program, but it was the easiest and handiest to use for this purpose

[theebmonique]

I know the paint program can be a bit tricky sometimes. That's a great example of what 2 inches looks like. It's too bad when we post things like that, that we can't get them to post as actual size. When I measured it on my screen, it comes out as 3 1/4 inches. Does anyone know how to post things like that in 'actual size'...versus having them slightly bigger ? Or is my screen/computer messed up ?


Tracy...

[Harry]

On my screen it's approx. 3-7/8" Monitor size and settings account for some of it. I have a 17" screen and have it set at 800x600 pixels.

It may also be how Photobucket stored the photo. When I saved the photo and looked at it in its entirety (as a fit-to-screen photo) its a 12" ruler. Without fit-to-screen it showed only the first 9" of the ruler. In the the forum photo only 6 inches show. So there's a lot of photo manipulation going on.

[Harry]

I just did a little experimenting with the settings on my monitor.

When I changed it from 800x600 to 1024x768 and remeasured the photo the line was 3" long.

At 1152x864 it was 2-3/4" long.

At 1280X960 it was slightly less than 2-1/2 inches.

[Kat]

On my screen, I've got exactly the length of my forefinger! 2.5" Thanks!
Now turn it deep inside of sideways.
I suppose a guy's finger would be longer.

Here's an impression of how I think a 3.5 inch blade would have to penetrate to only make a 2.5 inch wound.
That's why it seems deep to me, because the whole blade did not enter- then the angle where there was penetration would probably be deeper.

(Thanks for the other autopsy snippets, but they don't mention wound depth).

These angles are probably off but it's the hatchet tip I wish to show.
I used the shadow of the hatchet to draw the angle, so it's not quite right.

[Allen]

r.

(Thanks for the other autopsy snippets, but they don't mention wound depth).

If you click on the link you can read the entire autopsy report. A little further along in the description of the incised wound in Nicole Brown Simpson's autopsy report it states:

There is fresh hemorrhage and bruising noted along the entire incised
wound path.

Depth of penetration is not given because the neck can be either flexed
or extended, and the length of the wound is greater than the depth.


Opinion: This is a fatal incised wound or sharp force injury, associated
with transection of the left and right carotid arteries and incisions of
the left and right internal jugular veins with exsanguinating hemorrhage.

The second autopsy report states the wound was 3/4 inches long but did not penetrate the subcutaneous layer. That is an indication of wound depth, the wound was not very deep at all.

The skin has three layers called the epidermis, dermis, and subcutaneous layers.

Epidermis (top layer) - protects the deeper layers of skin and the organs of the body from the environment. It is here that most skin cancers arise. The epidermis contains squamous cells and basal cells. Melanocytes are also present in this epidermis layer. These are the cells that produce the protective pigment called melanin. Melanin gives a tan or brown color to the skin and helps protect the deeper layers of the skin from the harmful effects of the sun.

Dermis (middle layer) - The dermis is much thicker than the epidermis. It contains hair follicles, sweat glands, blood vessels, and nerves that are held in place by a protein called collagen. Collagen gives the skin its resilience and strength.

Subcutaneous (innermost layer) -- The subcutaneous layer is composed of fat and connective tissue and connects the skin to the underlying muscle. The subcutaneous layer conserves heat and has a shock-absorbing effect that helps protect the body's organs from injury.

http://www.saints-memorial.org/cancerca ... /skin.html

The thickness of human skin:

For the average adult human, the skin has a surface area of between 1.5-2.0 square metres, most of it is between 2-3 mm thick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin

Human skin is only about 0.07 inches (2 mm) thick.

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/anatomy/skin/

[theebmonique]

Yes, the layer I referred to as the one with the extra fatty tissue is the subcutaneous layer.


Tracy...

[Audrey]

Nicole Simpson was killed with a rather sharp instrument.... no? Nothing like a hatchet.

I do not mean to be tasteless.. But think of carving a roast with a wonderfully sharp carving knife versus a cleaver type instrument. There is no comparison.

[Allen]

Nicole Simpson was killed with a rather sharp instrument.... no? Nothing like a hatchet.

A hatchet, a sharp instrument such as a knife, they would all make incised wounds. Abby and Nicole Brown Simpson both suffered incised wounds which are referred to as such in both of their autopsy reports. What I'm saying is that an incised wound is simply a wound that was made with a sharp instrument that makes a clean cut. Something that cuts, or slashes, or stabs. This was my point. No matter the instrument that caused them, they are cleanly cut wounds made with a sharp instrument. I'd say a hatchet or an axe could be considered to be a sharp instrument.What I've been trying to get at is the term incised has nothing to do with the SIZE of the wound but it is the type of wound. A clean cut wound made with a sharp instrument. It doesn't matter what kind of sharp instrument. It seems everyone keeps missing the point of my posts?

[theebmonique]

I don't think the instrument would have to necessarily be sharp. It would just have to cut.


Tracy...

[Allen]

I don't think the instrument would have to necessarily be sharp. It would just have to cut.


Tracy...

If it isn't a sharp instrument, it's not going to be a clean cut. You can't make a clean cut with a dull instrument.

[theebmonique]

I was just clarifying the definition for incise/incision. I don't see anywhere in Abby's autopsy report where any of the wounds are listed as 'clean' cuts.


Tracy...

[Allen]

I was just clarifying the definition for incise/incision. I don't see anywhere in Abby's autopsy report where any of the wounds are listed as 'clean' cuts.


Tracy...

I feel like I've been talking but no sound is coming out.


FIRST an incised wound 2 and 1/2 inches in length, and 2 and 1/2 inches in depth. The lower angle of the wound was over his spine and four inches below the junction of neck with body, and extending thence upward and outward to the left. On the forehead and bridge of nose were three contused wounds. Those on the forehead being oval, lengthwise with body.

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... Borden.htm

in·cised wound (n-szd)
n.
A wound characterized by a clean cut, as by a sharp instrument.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictio ... ised+wound



"INCISED WOUNDS
Defined as injuries caused by sharp objects, such as a knife or glass.There is a clean division of the skin and tissues leaving the surrounding margins almost free from damage. The types of incised wounds vary from cuts or slashes to penetrating stab wounds. "

http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/stude ... 2/stab.htm

Abby suffered from an incised wound, the definition of an incised wound is a clean cut wound made with a sharp instrument. So seeing and that is the definition of incised wound I would think it does say that.

[theebmonique]

An incised wound does not necessarily have to be a clean cut, it just has to be cut. For example, you can incise your hand while carving a pumpkin and end up with a rough, jagged wound. It's not a clean cut, but is an incision nonetheless.


Tracy...

[theebmonique]

OK, I give up...YOU WIN Melissa. My 16 years of hospital experience probably mean nothing anyway.


Tracy...

[Allen]

I have four nurses in my family who all together have about 20 so I guess we are even in the information department.

[Audrey]

My brother was (before he 'retired' to raise his son) one of the most respected pediatric burn care/reconstructive surgeons in Europe. If there is one thing he undestands, it is skin.. and injuries to skin. Shall I ask him and settle this once and for all?

[theebmonique]

Well, if we can count other people's experience, then between my sister and I we have about 35 years of experience in the operating room, the emergency room, and teaching health occupations.

You can always go by a book definition, but sometimes a 'real life experience' definition is a bit different.


Tracy...

[Audrey]

oh.. and not to mention... imho..

An autopsy report from the 1890's cannot be fairly compared to one of late... The science is almost completely different with medical and scientific advances... Likewise-- Forensic Pathologists today are more specialized... Not so in the past.

I just don't think we are doing justice to the case by comparing present day crime fighting/solving techniques, terms and technology to the Borden case...

Otherwise we might as well take hatchets to melons and call the case solved.

My experience tells me an incision would be a clean cut INTENDED cut... where an incised wound could mean a shank in the side in a prison shower. (from reading case files and reports from the jails I work in )

[Allen]

Who is comparing technology and crime fighting techniques? I'm comparing terms and definitions. Have terms changed that much in 100 years? The same term appears in both autopsy reports.

[theebmonique]

Yes, a surgical incision would definitely (hopefully anyway) be a clean/intended cut.


Tracy...

[theebmonique]

It's a tie !!!

incision
1. Cleft, cut, gash.
2. An act or action of incising.
http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd? ... Search+OMD

incised wound
A clean cut, as by a sharp instrument.
http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?incised+wound


Tracy...

[Kat]

This whole debate started because of Sue Grafton or Patricia Cornwell- some current mystery writer who supposedly has a reputation for being as precise as possible, actually gave the defnition I remarked upon, in a book. I made a note of it. I don't know where the note is. It could be anywhere.
It's just a question- I'll look for the source.

I am glad to know tho- if it doesn't include the requisite that the wound be as long as it is deep. Thanks!
Maybe it is something we needed to clarify anyway?

[theebmonique]

I have heard that Grafton and Cornwell novels are both very factual and precise.

What I got from the 'debate' is that even though the words were the same in root definition, there was enough of a difference in usage, that clarification for each was a good thing. I believe it was how they ended up being used which caused the greatest amount of stress.


Tracy

[Allen]

oh.. and not to mention... imho..

An autopsy report from the 1890's cannot be fairly compared to one of late... The science is almost completely different with medical and scientific advances... Likewise-- Forensic Pathologists today are more specialized... Not so in the past.

I just don't think we are doing justice to the case by comparing present day crime fighting/solving techniques, terms and technology to the Borden case...

Otherwise we might as well take hatchets to melons and call the case solved.

My experience tells me an incision would be a clean cut INTENDED cut... where an incised wound could mean a shank in the side in a prison shower. (from reading case files and reports from the jails I work in )

Ok, first of all, the very same term appears in two autopsy reports, one in 1892, and one in more recent years. The term incised wound. A wound is a wound no matter what time you live in or what instruments you study it with. I honestly don't know what better instruments a doctor could study a wound with other than his eyeballs and and something to measure it with and I don't see those changing in technology in the past 100 years.

I wasn't talking about any modern day technology or crime fighting/ solving techniques. I wasn't talking about anything other than the meaning of the term incised wound. I brought up Nicole Brown Simpson's autopsy report to simply show that the same term is still being used to describe wounds in autopsy reports by real doctors who know what wounds are because they have actually gone to school to study them. I cannot see that the terms have changed that much.

Even if a forensic pathologist is specialized I'm sure they know the basics of forensics such as what a wound looks like and what it is called.


I have no idea where the hatchets and melons rant came from simply because I was trying to define what the term means. I'm sure I'm not bringing down the case that much by simply trying to define whether or not the term incised wound still means the same thing today as it did back then.

You also contradicted yourself by saying that we shouldn't use modern day techniques and terms and then turn around and say that due to your present day employment in a jail you know what the term incised wound means.

Also using the definition for incision and incised wound as a comparison for a tie doesn't make a lot of sense because they are two different terms.And I never brought up the term incision in the first place, where did it come from?

Ok, I'm done arguing that point.

[theebmonique]

The 'incise' question came up ealier when Kat asked about it as she just posted above.

Quote:
But it's called "incised" and I think that means as deep as it is long. Appearance-wise, it would not look very long, but that is deep, don't you think?

To the best of my medical knowledge, incised means cut, to be cut. In the autopsy report on Abby, her body is described as: very well nourished and very fleshy.... The very fleshy part makes me think the depth of the wound is less likely to be a cause for alarm/concern. I see this as possibly meaning the blade of the instrument has(had) to go through a thicker layer of fatty material before coming in contact with anything critical.

Incision/incised wound have the same root word definition (incise), thus a valid comparison. The definition/source has been previously posted.


Tracy...

[Kat]

Well, all those Dr.'s put their fingers into Abby's wounds to feel them out.
Do they still do that today on site?

[theebmonique]

Good question Kat. I have been in on a couple of autopsies (in hospital/morgue) where the pathologist did a gross visual examination (non-microscopic) using both his hands and various medical instruments. Sometimes a manual examination of tissues can give an idea as to what further examination would be recommended. If the examination were in regards to the forensics of a murder investigation, I would think that state medical examiner would need to check any wounds, suspicious or otherwise. They would need to do this to determine cause of injury, angle of entry, wound depth, etc. Then, there would also be a microscopic examination to determine specifics about cells/tissues.

For instance, several years ago here in Utah, there was a newborn baby found dead in the trunk of a car. The medical examiner determined by looking at the baby's lung tissue that it had not taken a breath, and therefore was deceased before birth. The parents were then only charged with the improper disposal of a corpse.


Tracy...

[DWilly]

When I look at the photo that shows Abby's skull it looks like quite a bit of the right side of her head was hacked away. All that bone is gone. The only wound that looks odd to me is in the photo where it looks like they shaved the back of Abby's head. There's one wound on the right that is looks like it's going sideways.

[theebmonique]

Kat...I am thinking you or someone else come up with an illustration matching the wounds by number from Dolan's autopsy report with the shaved head and/or skull picture of Abby ? Reading through Abby's autopsy report alone, the overall 'mapping' of the wounds leaves a lot to be desired. While Dolan mentioned each wound, not all are given a specific location on Abby's body, IMHO.


Tracy...