This is from the New York Times August 29, 1892 under the heading:
Lizzie Borden's Sunday
Listening to Public Comments
on Her Case
From Her Window In The Jail She
Can Hear The Talk On The
Street - No Fresh Developments
- District Attorney Believed To
Be Holding Back Evidence
"...Lizzie Borden passed the Sunday as she has passed other days, in the quiet seclusionof the matron's limited chamber. Outside the door a stalwart officer kept guard, and prevented any one from even ascending the stairs. People passed by the place all day, and stopped to gaze at the cheerless stone structure. The single window in the matron's room looks out on Court Square, and as it was raised a part of the day, unquestionably Lizzie Borden was able to gauge public opinion with relation to herself from fragments of conversation drifting up from the street. Hardly a person who has passed under the shadow of the building realized that it would be a matter of no difficulty for a person seated at the window in the room in which Lizzie Borden is a prisoner to hear the greater part of any conversation which might be carried on there. Newspaper men have stood there under that window and vented their opinions and prophecies. Men, woman, and children talked about the case and the prisoner, and there the police officials have passed instructions from one to another. Certainly, the opportunities afforded Lizzie Borden for realizing the extent and nature of public curiosity have been unequaled by these of any other person."
Did Lizzie hear what people were saying about her? What did she think of it? Could it have helped her defence to know what the theories were if she could hear such conversation? Did people talk about evidence that had been found or not found? Interesting. I can picture Lizzie sitting at or near the open window listening to the world outside talk about her and the case.
Lizzie Borden's Sunday
Moderator: Adminlizzieborden
-
Allen
- Posts: 3409
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:38 pm
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Me
Lizzie Borden's Sunday
"He who cannot put his thoughts on ice should not enter into the head of dispute." - Friedrich Nietzsche
-
DWilly
- Posts: 546
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:15 pm
- Real Name:
After reading that I thought right away of the interview Lizzie gave while in jail. So, I zipped over to the Lizzie Andrew Borden site and found it. It does seem like she had a pretty good idea of what people were talking about:
New York Recorder—September 20, 1892
IN A NEW LIGHT
Lizzie Borden in Jail Awaiting Trial
How She Appeared to a Recent Visitor in Her Cell
Feels Badly Over the Talk that She Shows no Grief
'I know that I am innocent, and I have made up my mind that, no matter what happens, I will try to bear it bravely and make the best of it.'
The speaker was a woman. The words came slowly, and her eyes filled with tears that did not fall before they were wiped away. The woman was Lizzie Borden, who had been accused of the murder of her father, and personally has been made to appear in the eyes of the public as a monster, lacking in respect for the law, and stolid in her demeanor to such an extent that she never showed emotion at any stage of the tragedy, inquest or trial, and, as far as the government would allow they knew, had never shown any womanly or human emotion of any sort since the public first crossed the threshold of the Borden house.
I was anxious to see if this girl, with whom I was associated several years ago in the work of the Fall River Fruit and Flower Mission, had changed her character and become a monster since the days when she used to load up the plates of vigorous young newsboys and poor children at the annual turkey dinner provided during the holidays for them and take delight in their healthy appetites.
I sought her in the Taunton Jail and found her unchanged, except that she showed traces of the great trial she has just been through. Her face was thinner, her mouth had a patient look, as if she had been schooling herself to expect and to bear any treatment, however unpleasant, and her eyes were red from the long nights of weeping. A dark shade now protects them from the glaring white light reflected from the walls of her cell.
'How do you get along here, Miss Borden?' I asked her as soon as extra chairs had been secured for the two visitors.
'To tell the truth, I am afraid it is beginning to to tell on my health. This lack of fresh air and exercise is hard for me. I have always been out of doors a great deal, and that makes it harder. I cannot sleep nights now, and nothing they give me will produce sleep. If it were not for my friends I should break down, but as long as they stand by me I can bear it. They have been, with few exceptions, true to me all through it, and I appreciate it. If they had not, I don't know how I could have gone through with it. I certainly should have broken down. Some things have been unpleasant, but while everyone had been so kind to me i ought not to think of those. Marshal Hilliard has been very gentlemanly and kind to me in every way possible.
'The hardest thing for me to stand here is in the night, when there is no light. They will not allow me to have even a candle to read by, and to sit in the dark all evening is very hard; but I do not want any favors that are against the rules. Mr. Wright and his wife are very kind to me, and try to make it easier to bear, but of course, they must do their duty.
'There is one thing that hurts me very much. They say I don't show any grief. Certainly I don't in public. I never did reveal my feelings, and I cannot change my nature now. They say I don't cry. They should see me when I am alone, or sometimes with my friends. It hurts me to think people say so about me. I have tried hard'--and Miss Borden raised her eyes to mine--'to be brave and womanly through it all. I know I am innocent, and I have made up my mind that no matter what comes to me I will try to bear it bravely and make the best of it.
'I read and sew and write. Letters are my greatest comfort and I am allowed to correspond with my friends. I find that I have a great many friends--more than I ever knew I had. I receive a great many letters of sympathy from people whom I don't even know. I try to answer them, but I cannot reply to all. Some of them are anonymous, and are so comforting that I wish the writers would sign them.
'Mrs. Ward--Elizabeth Stuart Phelps--wrote me a very sympathic letter. Mrs. S.S. Fessenden has been a great comfort to me. She came and has told me that the Boston women were trying to get a petition signed to secure my release on bail. They tell me that is against the laws of the State, and, while I am very, very grateful to all the people who are working for me, I think it is perhaps it is better to stay here, but their sympathy helps to keep me up.
'I have received a great many letters from members of the W.C.T.U. and Christian Endeavor Society all over the country, and that is another help.
'It is a little thing, I suppose, but it hurt me when they said I was not willing to have my room searched. Why, I had seen so many different men that first day, and had been questioned about everything till my head was confused and in such a whirl that I could not think. I was lying down and Dr. Bowen was just preparing some medicine for me when a man came to my room and began to question me. I knew he was a policeman because he had brass buttons on his clothes. I asked the doctor:
"Must I see all these people now? It seems as if I cannot think a momet longer, my head pains me so."
'He went out. When he returned he said I must see them, and then the policeman came back with another man. They spoke about my mother, and that was the time I said,
"She is not my mother, but my stepmother." I suppose, if it was necessary that I must talk to them just then, I must tell as near as I could what was right.
'As to our not putting on mourning, of which people spoke unfavorably, there was not a moment when I could think of such a thing as a hat or dress. Somebody was talking to me, it seemed, all the time about the murder and asking me questions, and I could not think of anything else. I don't suppose we would have put it on anyway, because my father was very much opposed to the practice, and had always expressed himself to us so.
'If people would only do me justice that is all I ask, but it seems as if every word I have uttered has been distorted and such a false constuction placed on it that I am bewildered. I can't understand it.'
There was not a trace of anger in her tones--simply a pitiful expression. She recovered herself with an effort, and we said 'good-by.'
Miss Borden stood in the door of her cell looking after us until we turned the corner of the corridor."
New York Recorder—September 20, 1892
IN A NEW LIGHT
Lizzie Borden in Jail Awaiting Trial
How She Appeared to a Recent Visitor in Her Cell
Feels Badly Over the Talk that She Shows no Grief
'I know that I am innocent, and I have made up my mind that, no matter what happens, I will try to bear it bravely and make the best of it.'
The speaker was a woman. The words came slowly, and her eyes filled with tears that did not fall before they were wiped away. The woman was Lizzie Borden, who had been accused of the murder of her father, and personally has been made to appear in the eyes of the public as a monster, lacking in respect for the law, and stolid in her demeanor to such an extent that she never showed emotion at any stage of the tragedy, inquest or trial, and, as far as the government would allow they knew, had never shown any womanly or human emotion of any sort since the public first crossed the threshold of the Borden house.
I was anxious to see if this girl, with whom I was associated several years ago in the work of the Fall River Fruit and Flower Mission, had changed her character and become a monster since the days when she used to load up the plates of vigorous young newsboys and poor children at the annual turkey dinner provided during the holidays for them and take delight in their healthy appetites.
I sought her in the Taunton Jail and found her unchanged, except that she showed traces of the great trial she has just been through. Her face was thinner, her mouth had a patient look, as if she had been schooling herself to expect and to bear any treatment, however unpleasant, and her eyes were red from the long nights of weeping. A dark shade now protects them from the glaring white light reflected from the walls of her cell.
'How do you get along here, Miss Borden?' I asked her as soon as extra chairs had been secured for the two visitors.
'To tell the truth, I am afraid it is beginning to to tell on my health. This lack of fresh air and exercise is hard for me. I have always been out of doors a great deal, and that makes it harder. I cannot sleep nights now, and nothing they give me will produce sleep. If it were not for my friends I should break down, but as long as they stand by me I can bear it. They have been, with few exceptions, true to me all through it, and I appreciate it. If they had not, I don't know how I could have gone through with it. I certainly should have broken down. Some things have been unpleasant, but while everyone had been so kind to me i ought not to think of those. Marshal Hilliard has been very gentlemanly and kind to me in every way possible.
'The hardest thing for me to stand here is in the night, when there is no light. They will not allow me to have even a candle to read by, and to sit in the dark all evening is very hard; but I do not want any favors that are against the rules. Mr. Wright and his wife are very kind to me, and try to make it easier to bear, but of course, they must do their duty.
'There is one thing that hurts me very much. They say I don't show any grief. Certainly I don't in public. I never did reveal my feelings, and I cannot change my nature now. They say I don't cry. They should see me when I am alone, or sometimes with my friends. It hurts me to think people say so about me. I have tried hard'--and Miss Borden raised her eyes to mine--'to be brave and womanly through it all. I know I am innocent, and I have made up my mind that no matter what comes to me I will try to bear it bravely and make the best of it.
'I read and sew and write. Letters are my greatest comfort and I am allowed to correspond with my friends. I find that I have a great many friends--more than I ever knew I had. I receive a great many letters of sympathy from people whom I don't even know. I try to answer them, but I cannot reply to all. Some of them are anonymous, and are so comforting that I wish the writers would sign them.
'Mrs. Ward--Elizabeth Stuart Phelps--wrote me a very sympathic letter. Mrs. S.S. Fessenden has been a great comfort to me. She came and has told me that the Boston women were trying to get a petition signed to secure my release on bail. They tell me that is against the laws of the State, and, while I am very, very grateful to all the people who are working for me, I think it is perhaps it is better to stay here, but their sympathy helps to keep me up.
'I have received a great many letters from members of the W.C.T.U. and Christian Endeavor Society all over the country, and that is another help.
'It is a little thing, I suppose, but it hurt me when they said I was not willing to have my room searched. Why, I had seen so many different men that first day, and had been questioned about everything till my head was confused and in such a whirl that I could not think. I was lying down and Dr. Bowen was just preparing some medicine for me when a man came to my room and began to question me. I knew he was a policeman because he had brass buttons on his clothes. I asked the doctor:
"Must I see all these people now? It seems as if I cannot think a momet longer, my head pains me so."
'He went out. When he returned he said I must see them, and then the policeman came back with another man. They spoke about my mother, and that was the time I said,
"She is not my mother, but my stepmother." I suppose, if it was necessary that I must talk to them just then, I must tell as near as I could what was right.
'As to our not putting on mourning, of which people spoke unfavorably, there was not a moment when I could think of such a thing as a hat or dress. Somebody was talking to me, it seemed, all the time about the murder and asking me questions, and I could not think of anything else. I don't suppose we would have put it on anyway, because my father was very much opposed to the practice, and had always expressed himself to us so.
'If people would only do me justice that is all I ask, but it seems as if every word I have uttered has been distorted and such a false constuction placed on it that I am bewildered. I can't understand it.'
There was not a trace of anger in her tones--simply a pitiful expression. She recovered herself with an effort, and we said 'good-by.'
Miss Borden stood in the door of her cell looking after us until we turned the corner of the corridor."
-
Allen
- Posts: 3409
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:38 pm
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Me
It is an odd thing to say that the hardest part of being there was in the night because they did not allow her even a candle to read by. She says it was hard to sit in the dark all through the evening. It has been said that Andrew would often sit in the dark to save on the lantern fuel.
"He who cannot put his thoughts on ice should not enter into the head of dispute." - Friedrich Nietzsche
-
Smudgeman
- Posts: 728
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:51 am
- Real Name: Scott
- Location: Atlanta, GA
Well maybe Andrew liked to sit in the dark, and Lizzie probably hated it. I know I am irritated when the power goes off, and hate that it gets so dark so early in the winter. I can imagine sitting in jail in the dark was not at all pleasant.
Did you notice that she had to throw in she is not my mother, but my stepmother again. She wanted everyone to be clear that Abby was NOT her mother!
Did you notice that she had to throw in she is not my mother, but my stepmother again. She wanted everyone to be clear that Abby was NOT her mother!
-
Kat
- Posts: 14785
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:59 pm
- Real Name:
- Location: Central Florida
Allen, your bit on Lizzie overhearing was very interesting- a new view.
She was in Fall River at that time (Aug. 29) and those voices she heard could be local.
Also, it was while the preliminary hearing was about to close.
I think that at that time, too, info passed on the streets was still chaotic, and unsubstantiated. She may have heard some really glaring errors! I can't imagine!!
By September 1st, she would be adjudged "Probably Guilty" and ever after that she would bear the stigma.
She was in Fall River at that time (Aug. 29) and those voices she heard could be local.
Also, it was while the preliminary hearing was about to close.
I think that at that time, too, info passed on the streets was still chaotic, and unsubstantiated. She may have heard some really glaring errors! I can't imagine!!
By September 1st, she would be adjudged "Probably Guilty" and ever after that she would bear the stigma.
-
FairhavenGuy
- Posts: 1136
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:39 am
- Real Name: Christopher J. Richard
- Location: Fairhaven, MA
- Contact:
Do we know who interviewd Lizzie and wrote the September 20 New York Recorder piece? To me it sounds so much like the sort of story her defense team might plant in the newspapers to put their client in a more sympathetic light.
Did similar "interviews" appear in other papers at the same time?
Did similar "interviews" appear in other papers at the same time?
I've met Kat and Harry and Stef, oh my!
(And Diana, Richard, nbcatlover, Doug Parkhurst and Marilou, Shelley, "Cemetery" Jeff, Nadzieja, kfactor, Barbara, JoAnne, Michael, Katrina and my 255 character limit is up.)
(And Diana, Richard, nbcatlover, Doug Parkhurst and Marilou, Shelley, "Cemetery" Jeff, Nadzieja, kfactor, Barbara, JoAnne, Michael, Katrina and my 255 character limit is up.)
-
Kat
- Posts: 14785
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:59 pm
- Real Name:
- Location: Central Florida
Here's a picture of a copy of the item- partial.
It was in the FRDGlobe on the 19th, and it says it was "published today in the New York Recorder."
This is from Terence's collection.
Harry has noticed that papers will share the same story, yet the intro and/or summation may be changed to suit the audience where the item appears.
It was in the FRDGlobe on the 19th, and it says it was "published today in the New York Recorder."
This is from Terence's collection.
Harry has noticed that papers will share the same story, yet the intro and/or summation may be changed to suit the audience where the item appears.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
Kat
- Posts: 14785
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:59 pm
- Real Name:
- Location: Central Florida
I always read how Lizzie didn't read the papers and it didn't occur to me as to HOW she might have heard things- in this day of air conditioning- I didn't think of the windows being open.
That was a fascinating glimpse into her reality at the Fall River jail (in the police station/courthouse)- so Thank You!
Just think- on August 29th she was still *innocent until proven guilty*- and just 2 days later her fate was sealed.
Wow- that's personal.
That was a fascinating glimpse into her reality at the Fall River jail (in the police station/courthouse)- so Thank You!
Just think- on August 29th she was still *innocent until proven guilty*- and just 2 days later her fate was sealed.
Wow- that's personal.
-
Kat
- Posts: 14785
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:59 pm
- Real Name:
- Location: Central Florida
It's a good question to ask- and ask even if there was such a person as "Mrs. McGuirk."FairhavenGuy @ Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:51 am wrote:Do we know who interviewd Lizzie and wrote the September 20 New York Recorder piece? To me it sounds so much like the sort of story her defense team might plant in the newspapers to put their client in a more sympathetic light.
Did similar "interviews" appear in other papers at the same time?
I checked some papers from the 1890's and she did write on women's issues in the 1890's for The Washinton Post and the L. A. Times.
-
DWilly
- Posts: 546
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:15 pm
- Real Name:
Kat @ Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:00 pm wrote:I always read how Lizzie didn't read the papers .
I'm going to try and add a file or picture or whatever you call it. I hope this works because I can only see the picture when I'm logged in. I hope you guys can see it. It's a drawing of Lizzie supposedly reading the Post that I found in Rebello on page 219. Now, I don't know if it's real. There's also a drawing of Knowlton and under the picture it also says, "Reads The Post." Maybe this was just the Post's strange way of advertising. In a stange sort of way it reminds me of those "Got Milk" ads:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
Harry
- Posts: 4061
- Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:28 pm
- Real Name: harry
- Location: South Carolina
It looks like a made up advertisement to me. As Dwilly said, the same page has District Attorney Knowlton with a Boston Post with the same annotation "Reads the Post". There was intense competition between the Boston papers, the Globe, Post, Herald, Advertiser, etc. The Globe for instance had many references to their increased circulation due to their coverage of the case. They were all looking for an edge over their rivals. The Trickey/McHenry article was in part an outcome of that rivalry.
While jailed at Taunton, Lizzie, at her own request did not want to see the papers. From the Aug. 13, 1892 Evening Standard "Lodged in Jail":
"The furniture of the cell consists of the bedstead, chair and washbowl, and she will spend her time in reading. All the papers regularly subscribed for by her father will be forwarded to her, but they do not include the daily newspapers. At her personal request she has seen none of these and will not do so. Consequently she is not familiar with the comments of the papers regarding the case. ..."
While jailed at Taunton, Lizzie, at her own request did not want to see the papers. From the Aug. 13, 1892 Evening Standard "Lodged in Jail":
"The furniture of the cell consists of the bedstead, chair and washbowl, and she will spend her time in reading. All the papers regularly subscribed for by her father will be forwarded to her, but they do not include the daily newspapers. At her personal request she has seen none of these and will not do so. Consequently she is not familiar with the comments of the papers regarding the case. ..."
I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
-
Allen
- Posts: 3409
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:38 pm
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Me
That's a good caricature of Knowlton. I always get a chuckle at the way they sometimes made the head so much bigger in proportion to the body.
I think I agree, it looks like it could be some savvy advertisement on behalf of the Post.
I think I agree, it looks like it could be some savvy advertisement on behalf of the Post.
"He who cannot put his thoughts on ice should not enter into the head of dispute." - Friedrich Nietzsche
-
Ad
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:24 pm
- Real Name: Al Jones
- Location: Blaine, WA
[quote="DWilly @ Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:31 pm"]
New York Recorder—September 20, 1892
Lizzie Borden in Jail Awaiting Trial
'I read and sew and write. Letters are my greatest comfort and I am allowed to correspond with my friends. I find that I have a great many friends--more than I ever knew I had. I receive a great many letters of sympathy from people whom I don't even know. I try to answer them, but I cannot reply to all. Some of them are anonymous, and are so comforting that I wish the writers would sign them.
(Forgive me please, as I'm not sure if I'm using the quote feature properly)
Lizzie states here that she has received and written "a great many letters".
Does anyone know if any of these have survived? Is there a collector out there that might have these or any other correspondence to and from the Bordens?
We all have that junk drawer or china cabinet that has our three year old Birthday or Christmas cards etc. I was just hoping that some of theirs may have survived.
New York Recorder—September 20, 1892
Lizzie Borden in Jail Awaiting Trial
'I read and sew and write. Letters are my greatest comfort and I am allowed to correspond with my friends. I find that I have a great many friends--more than I ever knew I had. I receive a great many letters of sympathy from people whom I don't even know. I try to answer them, but I cannot reply to all. Some of them are anonymous, and are so comforting that I wish the writers would sign them.
(Forgive me please, as I'm not sure if I'm using the quote feature properly)
Lizzie states here that she has received and written "a great many letters".
Does anyone know if any of these have survived? Is there a collector out there that might have these or any other correspondence to and from the Bordens?
We all have that junk drawer or china cabinet that has our three year old Birthday or Christmas cards etc. I was just hoping that some of theirs may have survived.
-
Kat
- Posts: 14785
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:59 pm
- Real Name:
- Location: Central Florida
-
1bigsteve
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:29 pm
- Real Name: evetS
- Location: California
Kat @ Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:31 pm wrote:I was just recently thinking the same thing. Good point!
There must be tons of letters out there from Lizzie!
We need to find the WCTU people and the Christian Endeavor people to check their old membership for names of people who might have written Lizzie while in jail.
Good thought. Perhaps one of the Lizzieites in Fall River area could put an advertisement in the paper(s) asking for these lost letters. They may have been handed down from generation to generation and now sit in someone's nik-nak drawer. They may give us a better understanding of Lizzie's true personality. A window to the heart?
-1bigsteve (o:
"All of your tomorrows begin today. Move it!" -Susan Hayward 1973