Handwriting Reveals?

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Kat
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Handwriting Reveals?

Post by Kat »

The Herald News 31 July 1992, Terence Duniho Collection.

There is a news story about Lizzie Borden's handwriting anaylsis.
I don't know if mistaken ideas already lodged in the brain of the amateur analyzer colours their perception of the person they are *reading?*

I don't know if a trained, informed person who was not degreed would even be able to read handwriting without a subjective bias. I suppose if they did not know who the sample belonged to, there might be better cause to believe the analysis somewhat.

This man, Ron Rice is a hypnotist who "also does motivational and therapeutic work...[mostly in] the private sector." He is a private investigator. He analyzed the sample from the letter "I dreamed of you" which the article states is to "Mr. Charles E.S. Adams" (whoever that is)- the wrong person. It's supposedly written to her dressmaker, Mrs. Cummings?

So I don't know if that also informs the analyzer- to whom the letter is written. He also had a picture of Lizzie and a crime scene photo.
I guess he's sort of like a *Profiler?*
Does anyone know anything about this stuff?

Rice states:
"She was beautiful...she had everything...she was physical, athletic, aggressive, intelligent, imaginative, determined and she was capable of great anger."

"Looking at people's handwriting is the quickest way to assess their personality. It's like looking at wiring. If you're insecure, have a poor self-image, if you're violent, depressed or angry, it will show up first in your handwriting."


--I think some employers now look at handwriting before someone is hired into a sensitive or high-profile job?

"She [Lizzie] had all the ingredients. She was a warrior queen. She was close to being a Dominant 1."

--"Dominant 1's" are 5% of the population and are "born to lead," according to this man Rice.

"Lizzie wasn't a Dominant 1, but she was close. She was in a class with Joan of Arc and Eleanor Roosevelt. There was fantastic potential there.

--He goes on to explain that what he wants to know about Lizzie is in her "p"s and "t"s in the 1897 letter.

"Even several years after the murder, the crossline on the 't' isn't anywhere near the stem. That shows tremendous anger, which isn't a bad thing to have. It can be a tremendous asset if channeled right. In Lizzie's case, it just got out of control. Her small 'p's have a high loop that signifies the physical, a long stem that signifies determination and a space between the front and back part of the 'p' that signifies aggressiveness."

--He states the letters are "highly sexual."
The letter is the one which starts: "Where are you how are you and what are you doing?" However, when this article quotes the letter, which is apparently right in front of them, it is misquoted. Anyway...
The man Rice believes that Lizzie would fit in nowadays in our modern society.

"She was an extreme type of extrovert. She gave appearances of being a prim 19th century lady, but I'm sure she would have surprised you if you had been in a room alone with her. She could have been an Ethel Merman or a Marilyn Monroe. But she lived in the 19th century, and was always forced to suppress her true feelings. The frustration must have been tremendous...if you ask 'Was she capable of doing it [the murders]? ' I'd say yes. She had the potential, and she had several motives."

--This is where he brings up ambiguous information. I can't tell if it influences his opinion. He says Lizzie hated Abby, she knew Andrew had changed his will to leave the farm in Swansea to Abby and "she exploded," "aggravated" by having her period, and because it "was one of the hottest days of the summer, or by an epileptic seizure, but it was an explosion."

"At the time, people did not believe a woman was capable of such a violent crime. But believe me, Lizzie was capable of it...If she had become a woman lawyer [in today's society], she would've ended up a real tough lady judge, or she would have been a corporate president. Lizzie was not born to be second."

Letter from Spiering's book Lizzie.


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Post by Audrey »

Lizzie as Judge Judy?
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Post by 1bigsteve »

I don't know much about that kind of thing, Kat, but my handwriting was once claimed to belong to a "woman in a hurry." Well......

What I don't get is that if Lizzie was having her monthly cycle and it created an emotional "blow-up" with Abby, then how could she so cool around Bridget minutes later then "blow-up at Andrew and the revert to a cool state with Bridget minutes after his killing? It seem's that Lizziw would have gone, emotionaly, from "cool" to "hot" to "cool" to "hot" to "cool" without even breaking a sweat. I don't think Lizzie's period had anything to do with the murders.

As far as Lizzie's "Joan of Arc" take charge qualities goes I don't think she had any. She evidently never showed any, as far as I know, even into the 1920's when women were on "the move." She could have joined a women's group and become another Carry Nation but stayed behind the walls of Maplecroft. Of course that could have been because of the public's hatered for her which probably hurt Lizzie very deeply.

I don't know.

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Post by DWilly »

I don't know. Some of this is like reading a horoscope where it's so vague it could almost apply to anyone. I think a lot of people in the 19th Century were sexually repressed. I remember looking at that Newport, RI photo of Lizzie where she is standing behind the chair. Boy, does she looked repressed. She's almost throttling that chair.

Of course it's more than possible Lizzie had another side to her personality that we never got to see. In The Lizzie Borden Sourcebook by Kent on page 329, there's an article called, "Lizzie Borden Left By Sister." In that there's this little bit:

" Later, when Miss O'Neil came here and gave an impersonation of "Queen Elizabeth" which startled most people, but pleased others, Miss Borden's carriage awaited her after the play, and together they went to Miss Borden's home."

Now, maybe Lizzie was trying to be a bit more unrepressed by this time. In that same article it says Lizzie may have been writing a play for Nance. Maybe signs of a little Ethel or Marilyn in Lizzie?
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Post by Kat »

I appreciate the opinions.
It does smack a bit of astrology and I am not real confident in the analysis because the study of Lizzie, her handwriting and the crime was a hobby of this guy Mr. Rice.
And there were facts wrong. I don't know if that colors his perception.
Has anyone ever heard of this Mr. Adams? The article says Lizzie wrote this "dream" letter to him in 1897 and another letter to him in 1894.

They do make the comment that it was a "very repressed society" when the subject somes up that she might have had an *affair* with this Adams. "For all we know Lizzie may have died a virgin," is a statement by Rice.

I was wondering when I read this if whether people thought Lizzie may very well have made a *splash* no matter what time period she had lived in- like she was born to be famous- but for what- might be determined by her time period and envoirnment?

This Rice throws everything at the analysis too, which makes me uncomfortable- he throws in the menstrual period (which was stipulated in court ended Wednesday), seizures, hot day, aggressive anger... :roll:
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Post by nbcatlover »

It's very curious...I was looking up something on Mary Ashton (Rice) Livermore, and my search brought me to Philips' History of Fall River.

On Pg. 40 while talking about her friendship with Lizzie, it goes on:

"She was also an intimate of Mrs. Robert Adams, and on her last trip to Fall River made a special effort to meet Edward S. Adams with whom she had a lengthy and confidential conference."

http://www.sailsinc.org/durfee/phillips2-5.pdf
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Kat
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Post by Kat »

Warning- it's a download! :smile:
Thanks Cynthia.

I've just found a news item which says Edward S. Adams was President of the Fall River Historical Society- the paper's date was 1 June 1927.
However, this isn't the Charles E.S. Adams, I don't think.
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Post by snokkums »

I think that alot of that stuff like handwriting anaylisis is a bunch of who- hah. Sometimes it's a useful tool like in forensic sciences, but if you are talking astrology and pshyic stuff, well I don't know.
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Post by DWilly »

Kat @ Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:02 am wrote:Warning- it's a download! :smile:
Thanks Cynthia.

I've just found a news item which says Edward S. Adams was President of the Fall River Historical Society- the paper's date was 1 June 1927.
However, this isn't the Charles E.S. Adams, I don't think.
Don't you think it's possible that they just made a simple mistake?Charles E. S. Adams could indeed be Edward S. Adams and just usually go by Edward instead of Charles. He wouldn't be the first person to go by his middle name. I know tennis player Louise Brough did it. Her first name was Althea. Anyway, what might have happened is they got confused between who the letter was sent to...namely Mrs. Cummings the dressmaker and E.S. Adams the head of the Fall Rivers Historical Society who may have sent them a copy of the letter. If I'm not mistaken it has been pointed out that the Historical Society does have the envelope and it does say to Mrs. Cummings.
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Post by DWilly »

Kat @ Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:42 am wrote:And there were facts wrong. I don't know if that colors his perception.
Has anyone ever heard of this Mr. Adams? The article says Lizzie wrote this "dream" letter to him in 1897 and another letter to him in 1894.
I just thought of this. The article is mixing up Adams with Mrs. Cummings on both letters. If I'm not mistaken I think the 1894, letter was the one Lizzie wrote saying the rumors about her getting married were silly. The 1897, letter is the " I dreamed about..." letter to her. Again, hasn't it already been shown the letters were to Mrs. Cummings? Is there any reason to still think the " I dreamed..." letter was to this guy?
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Post by Kat »

Why would they state the letters were to Adams and speculate there was an affair?
I didn't assume that these were the same Adams because there's a 30 year difference in the dates: 1894, 1897 vs. 1927.
That's a generation.
More like this Adam's father, therefore it could be any Adams. Just was giving a reminder of the fact of the "Charles" name, so the 30 year difference would be more obvious.

I don't know. It's still confusing.
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Post by DWilly »

I could understand being confused if we had no idea who the letters were sent to. As we have seen Lizzie had a habit of addressing many of her letters to "Dear Friend" thus not making clear to whom she was writing to unless you had the envelope the letter came in. However, you posted that the Fall Rivers Historical Society had the envelope that the letter was sent in and it was addressed to Mrs. Cummings. Are you now disputing that?

To me it's clear what happened. They guy made a mistake. Maybe Adams had something to do with him seeing the letter and he just got mixed up and thought the letter was to Adams. A simple mistake. Nothing more. When Rice saw the letter start with " I dreamed of you..." he jumped to the conclusion that it was a love letter. Because he thought it was to a man. He was wrong. Of course it is rather interesting that when people think the letter is to a man then the letter is romantic but once they find out it's to her dressmaker then they change their minds and say the letter is only to a friend.
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Post by Kat »

I've just found this Ron Rice as writing an article on the crimes and Lizzie in the Herald News of 31 July 1992, item titled "Just what led Lizzie to wield the ax?"
It had no mention of the handwriting analysis.
Also, the item I posted about at the beginning of this topic was a reprint embedded in the 1992 paper, and was original to the Brockton Sunday Enterprise of 15 July 1984:1.
So it seems Mr. Rice became an expert on the crimes in the interim.

It's possble then that Rice saw the letter through some Adams family member before the FRHS acquired it, or Adams brought with him the letter when he became President c. 1927.
I'm not assuming anything, is all I've said here.
And they only show a partial of the 1897 letter and misquote it.
Spiering shows the letter and his book is published 1984.
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