The court can't seem to illuminate the actual placement of Abby's arms when she first was found by an official (Bowen).
Dolan seems to contradict Bowen and they don't reconcile the position of the arms between the two testimonies.
Note the caption says Mr. Borden, but I checked for body position descriptions and I'm pretty sure it is Mrs. Borden they are illustrating.
I thought it was interesting that there is actually a drawing of testimony, when we would usually be frustrated by the statement made where the witness says something as an example and all we read is *The arms were like this.*
![Image](http://lizzieandrewborden.com/LBForum/files/bowenbostonglobe.jpg)
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Dr. Bowen
Preliminary Hearing
Page 404
Q. Now I would like to have you describe the position of the hands and the body at that time, when you first saw it.
A. Mrs. Borden was lying on her face, squarely on her face, perfectly straight, so far as her legs were concerned, perfectly straight and square on her face, as near as I can remember. Her arms were folded or----
Q. Give an illustration with yours.
(Witness shows with his arms.)
Q. Pointing how, abreast, or below the line of the arm pits?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. One across the other?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Were they up like this, over the head?
A. No Sir.
Q. Are you positive about that?
A. I am positive of that.
Q. What did you do to the body at that time? Did you do anything at the first sight of it?
A. I placed my hand on the head, on the wounds of the head, and satisfied myself that she was dead.
Q. Did you disturb any of the limbs, or anything, did you move them at all?
A. No Sir, I do not think I did.
Q. Do you know how they got to be in this position where they to be subsequently?
A. No, I do not know.
Q. Have you any idea about it?
A. She must have been moved.
Q. You do not know who did it?
A. No Sir.
….
411
Q. What did you say the position of the arms was, I wanted to get that, Mrs. Borden's?
A. Very near that way, crossed this way. (showing.)
…
412
(Court) Doctor, let me understand. When you saw the body of Mrs. Borden, as I understand you, lying flat on the face, were her arms folded across the face?
A. They were.
(Court) Under her?
Page 413
A. Yes Sir, they were.
(Court) She was laying on her arms?
A. Yes Sir.
RE-CROSS..
Q. (Mr. Knowlton) How long a look did you take at the body at that time?
A. The first time up there, I do not suppose it was more than a minute or two.
Q. Were you taking particular notice of the position of things at that time?
A. No Sir I was not, except herself, except the body.
Q. You were not looking at it as a physician would look at an ordinary case?
A. No Sir. I was satisfying myself she was dead.
Q. You were then, if you will pardon me for saying so, quite excited?
A. I was.
Q. You were very excited?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. You looked at that thing, however, so to satisfy yourself she was dead?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. The position was only incidental?
A. It was incidental, for I saw it several times after that, and took several parties up.
Q. Who was up there, and saw it in the same position that you saw it?
A. I cannot tell.
Q. Tell me anybody that saw it as you have described it.
A. I dont know.
Q. You have seen the witnesses that testified on the stand who saw it; can you tell me any of them who saw it, so I could see whether their memory coincided with you.
A. I am not positive.
Q. When was the last time you saw the body in that position, with the arms under it?
A. After Dr. Dolan came we turned the body over on the back---
Q. When was the last time you saw her with her arms under her, instead of over her head?
A. Before she was moved by the direction of Medical Examiner Dolan.
Q. When Dr. Dolan first came, her arms were in the same position as when you first saw her?
A. So far as I know.
Q. So far as you remember?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. So when Dr. Dolan first came, the position he found her in was the position you first found her in?
Page 414
A. So far as I remember.
Q. So far as you remember now?
A. So far as I remember. I did not intend to have her disturbed until the medical Examiner was there. I intended to notify him as soon as I could.
Q. So far as you can remember the position in which Dr. Dolan found her, was the same position in which you found her?
A. So far as I know.
_______
[NOTE: Dolan testified Before Bowen- see page numbers- so Bowen was on *the hot seat*.]
[Saw bodies approx. 11:45 AM]
Dolan
Prelim
101
Q. As you saw it, without turning it over, what was the appearance of it?
A. You could not see any part of the face. The arms were thrown, as it were, prone around the face. All that was exposed was the right half of the back of the head.
Q. As the body lay there could you see any wounds?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. What wound could you see as the body lay there?
A. As the body lay there you could see, getting down closely, you could see there were a number of wounds, by close examination. Introducing your finger you found those wounds, at least seven or eight of them, went through the bone into the skull, that is into the brain.
Q. I wont trouble you any more with that part of the inquiry. What did you do then, did you turn the body over?
Page 102
A. Yes Sir, I turned the body up so to get to the light to count the wounds better.
….
116
Q. Then you could look across the bed, and see her lying there?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. She was lying with both hands under?
A. No Sir, more extended over the head, as it were, not over it, but around the head.
Q. This fashion, putting my hands in front of my face?
A. Yes but not resting on the arms; the head in a circle.
Q. In that fashion, with my hands being above the line of my face, and the hands being together?
A. I would not say they were together exactly.
Q. Approaching?
A. Yes Sir.
……
119
Q. This fairly must have been near twelve o'clock when you went up stairs, must it not?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. You know whether before you went there any person had disturbed or changed the position of the body, or any part of it?
A. It had not been changed.
Q. That is to say, you believe so?
A. I was told so by the one who saw it.
Q. Having said so much, although it is not competent, I will ask you who that was.
A. Dr. Bowen
Q. While Dr. Bowen was there with you, did you see him do anything to change the position of the body, or any part of it?
A. No Sir I did not.
Q. Did he, or you, or both of you, put your fingers or hands in these wounds, or any of them?
A. Yes Sir. I raised her up, with his assistance.
Q. Did you, either or both of you, put your hands or fingers into these wounds, or any of them?
A. I put my hands in; I do not know whether he did or not.
…….
139
Q. Then you are not sure but then you went up stairs, and took your view of Mrs. Borden; is that right?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. That was about quarter to one, was it not?
A. If it was as late as that when the search got through, I must have examined Mrs. Borden before we went on the search; I told you I was not positive.
Q. Did you not tell me you went up and just looked at her, and then went down stairs, and all these things occurred?
A. I told you I did not know positively whether I made the view of Mrs. Borden, that is the second, to examine her wounds, before or after the search.
Q. Who went with you when you took the second view of Mrs. Borden, and examined her wounds?
A. Dr. Hardy, and Dr. Tourtelott, and I think Dr. Bowen.
Q. At that time did any one of the physicians disturb the position of the body?
A. I disturbed it.
Page 140
Q. Did anybodyelse?
A. Simply in assisting me, I think.
Q. Not before you touched the body?
A. No Sir.
……
141
Q. I wonder if you could not help me a little by that. (Producing a small doll) I have not attempted to make any travesty; it seems to me this manikin is less shocking---
(Court.) There ought to be none.
Q. If I understand you, in the first place these arms were up so, in a crude way, lying down in that position?
A. Yes Sir.
…..
186
Q. When you lifted Mrs. Borden, did you not change the position of the arms?
Page 187
A. The arms fell down by the side when she was lifted up, yes sir.
Q. In other words, when the photograph was taken, you put her back again as nearly as you could in the position in which you saw her; is that right?
A. Yes Sir.
….
196
Q. No. 5, which is the picture of Mr. Borden, was that as it was when the body was found by you, in every particular?
A. Yes Sir.
[There doesn't seem to be a problem with the arm placement of Andrew].