Bromide
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joe
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Bromide
I just found a reprint of the Merck Manual for 1899. Check out the listing for Bromides and it's use as an anti-epiletic. Also, Bromidia that includes cannabis.
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'97 Harley Road King with Gramma in the sidecar
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All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream. ~ Edgar A. Poe
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All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream. ~ Edgar A. Poe
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Kat
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Jeesh! Lithium?
And ingredients which were not all "completely defined"!
I was just reading about a lady (Adelaid Bartlett) quieted with a quarter grain of morphine and they thought she was under its influence for 3 whole days! She had been very drunk, then given the morphine (shot) and then given about 2 hours rest and then taken up and questioned. It was said that she could not be expected to remember any answers she gave under these conditions- especially since she was not allowed to sleep it off.
And ingredients which were not all "completely defined"!
I was just reading about a lady (Adelaid Bartlett) quieted with a quarter grain of morphine and they thought she was under its influence for 3 whole days! She had been very drunk, then given the morphine (shot) and then given about 2 hours rest and then taken up and questioned. It was said that she could not be expected to remember any answers she gave under these conditions- especially since she was not allowed to sleep it off.
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Harry
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theebmonique
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lydiapinkham
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Not only that, but if caffeine is suddenly removed from the diet, blinding headaches can ensue until the system adjusts--I speak from experience: never go off caffeine all at once!
I agree with the rest of you that the bromo would be a calming agent, caffeine for headache resulting from agitation. Lithium is certainly nothing to sneeze at. The greatest problem I see is that medicines were inconsistently mixed at the time, so it is hard to know precisely what Bowen gave her.
I have to say that Lizzie's inquest statement is so bizarre that it seems to reflect drug induced disjointed thinking and expression. Not to say, she seems innocent, but she hardly seems lucid enough to make a statement. By this time, also, hadn't Bowen thrown in morphine for good measure? My mother was given morphine for pain in her final days, and her speech, sense of time, and sense of reality were all severely impaired. Having witnessed such impairment, I find it hard to put much stock in anything said by someone sedated in such a way.
--Lyddie
I agree with the rest of you that the bromo would be a calming agent, caffeine for headache resulting from agitation. Lithium is certainly nothing to sneeze at. The greatest problem I see is that medicines were inconsistently mixed at the time, so it is hard to know precisely what Bowen gave her.
I have to say that Lizzie's inquest statement is so bizarre that it seems to reflect drug induced disjointed thinking and expression. Not to say, she seems innocent, but she hardly seems lucid enough to make a statement. By this time, also, hadn't Bowen thrown in morphine for good measure? My mother was given morphine for pain in her final days, and her speech, sense of time, and sense of reality were all severely impaired. Having witnessed such impairment, I find it hard to put much stock in anything said by someone sedated in such a way.
--Lyddie
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joe
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Kat
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augusta
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Good posts, Joe. But there is no listing for "Bromo-Caffeine". So we can't really figure out for sure from this listing what the "bromo" part was.
I've always been very interested in this "Bromo-Caffeine", and cannot get a handle on what it really was. I've only heard as we all have that it was for "nervous headache". So that tells me it was part sedative/part stimulant, as caffeine was named. Yes, I agree with y'all who said caffeine is a remedy for a headache. I use it myself at times.
Lithium - unless they didn't really know what it was back then, I doubt Lizzie would have been given that. That's a salt that is natural in the body. It's often used today as medication for those with manic-depression. I have heard that once you are on that, you have to stay on it for the rest of your life. It sounds like a powerful thing. I guess people with manic-depression are missing that salt in their body? But not all people who have it are given lithium ...
Isn't there testimony that Dr. Bowen says he "injected" Lizzie with the morphine all the while she was in the jail house? Or am I thinking of the Elizabeth Montgomery movie where we see that?
It was very interesting to see the listing Joe posted that mentioned anti-epileptic. I don't know if that's what Bowen gave her, but I'd think that he would have been giving her this from time to time if she had something like epilepsy. But who knows - maybe he did. Nobody asked him, did they.
I'm sorry, Joe. I gotta see a listing that says "Bromo-Caffeine".
I've always been very interested in this "Bromo-Caffeine", and cannot get a handle on what it really was. I've only heard as we all have that it was for "nervous headache". So that tells me it was part sedative/part stimulant, as caffeine was named. Yes, I agree with y'all who said caffeine is a remedy for a headache. I use it myself at times.
Lithium - unless they didn't really know what it was back then, I doubt Lizzie would have been given that. That's a salt that is natural in the body. It's often used today as medication for those with manic-depression. I have heard that once you are on that, you have to stay on it for the rest of your life. It sounds like a powerful thing. I guess people with manic-depression are missing that salt in their body? But not all people who have it are given lithium ...
Isn't there testimony that Dr. Bowen says he "injected" Lizzie with the morphine all the while she was in the jail house? Or am I thinking of the Elizabeth Montgomery movie where we see that?
It was very interesting to see the listing Joe posted that mentioned anti-epileptic. I don't know if that's what Bowen gave her, but I'd think that he would have been giving her this from time to time if she had something like epilepsy. But who knows - maybe he did. Nobody asked him, did they.
I'm sorry, Joe. I gotta see a listing that says "Bromo-Caffeine".
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Susan
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Hi, Augusta! From Bowen's Trial testimony, he states that he administered Bromo-Caffeine to Lizzie the day of the murders and left her a bottle to take another dose as needed. He doesn't state how he administered it, but, I would assume that he left it to be taken orally.
I also found from searching that Bromo-Caffeine came in small, round, light cobalt blue, 3 1/4" bottles.
In 1873, Henry G. Keasbey, a wealthy financier, and Dr. Richard V. Mattison, a chemist, founded The Keasbey & Mattison Company, a producer of pharmaceuticals and asbestos products. Dr. Mattison made his first fortune in patent medicines such as Bromo Caffeine, made to soothe the anxieties of "the neurasthenic woman or the congestive or anaemic headaches of the fin de siecle man", Alkalithia for rheumatism and Cafetonique for dyspepsia.
From this site:http://www.amblermainstreet.org/Ambler% ... ttison.htm
Author: Keasbey and Mattison Company
Title: Pamphlets and handbills, ca.1877-1920.
Description: 41 items
Notes: Pamphlets and handbills advertising
pharmaceuticals, including Alkalithia (a treatment foruric
acidemia containing lithium and caffeine), Aquatone (a
carbonated mineral water containing lithium),Bromo-Caffeine
(a headache and hangover remedy containing bromides and
caffeine), malt extracts, pepsin, and Salaperient (amineral
laxative); also, advertisements for infant formula andfor
asbestos as a surgical dressing and as a buildingmaterial
for sanitoria.
Physiological Action of the Bromides. They are pre-eminently depressants of the cerebral and spinal functions, also alterative, antispasmodic and hypnotic. The Potassium salt is especially a cardiac and muscular paralyzant. They have a saline taste, and are very diffusible, but slowly eliminated. They are decomposed in the blood, and re-formed at the points of elimination (fauces, bronchi, intestines, skin and kidneys), where they irritate the mucous membranes. Continued for some time, they produce severe gastric catarrh. They reduce the number of the respirations, and the heart's action and force; and though diminishing the calibre of the arterioles, they lower arterial tension. They lessen the activity of the brain cells, producing somnolence; diminish the sensibility of the peripheral nerves, causing anaesthesia of the skin and mucous membranes. They impair motility and the sexual function, cause great pallor and emaciation, lowered body-temperature, acne on the face and upper extremities, fetid breath, dysphagia, sluggish reflexes and defective coordination ; and if long continued may even impair the mental faculties, producing hallucinations in some cases, in others melancholia with suicidal tendency ; also incompetence of the sphincters and paralysis, beginning at the periphery and extending to the centres. The general result of their action is termed "Bromism," and is heralded by the acne and lowered faucial sensibility. It is probably due to the sedative influence of these agents on the sympathetic system, causing general anaemia of the brain, spinal cord, sexual organs, and skin.
Differences in Action between the principal Bromides.
Potassium Bromide is the most toxic to the heart and the muscular system, and is the least hypnotic. It contains 66 per cent. of Bromine.
Sodium Bromide is the least toxic, but the most hypnotic, and acts most energetically on the circulation. It contains 78 per cent. of Bromine.
Ammonium Bromide resembles the Potassium salt in action, except that it exerts less influence on the heart and muscular system, and is somewhat more stimulating.
Lithium Bromide contains the most Bromine (92 per cent.), and resembles the Sodium salt in action. It has proved better than the others in some cases of epilepsy, and is considered the best hypnotic of the series.
Calcium Bromide is an efficient hypnotic, but otherwise not very active.
Strontium Bromide is said to be less apt than the others to produce the acne and other results of bromism.
Zinc Bromide produces effects generally similar to those of the other bromides, but is violently irritant in large doses.
Therapeutics. The Bromides are used as sedatives to the nervous system, to lower reflex activity, to produce sleep, to subdue excitement of the genital apparatus, and to antagonize congestion of the brain. Their use is terribly abused, by patients, nurses, and even by physicians,—as Dr. Hammond well elucidates in his book on Nervous Diseases. They should not be used in anaemic conditions, and never for any length of time without the daily supervision of a physician. The combination of Potassium Bromide with Chloral is very unsafe in cases where fatty or weak heart exists, both drugs being active cardiac depressants.
From this site:http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/eclectic ... omine.html
I also found from searching that Bromo-Caffeine came in small, round, light cobalt blue, 3 1/4" bottles.
In 1873, Henry G. Keasbey, a wealthy financier, and Dr. Richard V. Mattison, a chemist, founded The Keasbey & Mattison Company, a producer of pharmaceuticals and asbestos products. Dr. Mattison made his first fortune in patent medicines such as Bromo Caffeine, made to soothe the anxieties of "the neurasthenic woman or the congestive or anaemic headaches of the fin de siecle man", Alkalithia for rheumatism and Cafetonique for dyspepsia.
From this site:http://www.amblermainstreet.org/Ambler% ... ttison.htm
Author: Keasbey and Mattison Company
Title: Pamphlets and handbills, ca.1877-1920.
Description: 41 items
Notes: Pamphlets and handbills advertising
pharmaceuticals, including Alkalithia (a treatment foruric
acidemia containing lithium and caffeine), Aquatone (a
carbonated mineral water containing lithium),Bromo-Caffeine
(a headache and hangover remedy containing bromides and
caffeine), malt extracts, pepsin, and Salaperient (amineral
laxative); also, advertisements for infant formula andfor
asbestos as a surgical dressing and as a buildingmaterial
for sanitoria.
Physiological Action of the Bromides. They are pre-eminently depressants of the cerebral and spinal functions, also alterative, antispasmodic and hypnotic. The Potassium salt is especially a cardiac and muscular paralyzant. They have a saline taste, and are very diffusible, but slowly eliminated. They are decomposed in the blood, and re-formed at the points of elimination (fauces, bronchi, intestines, skin and kidneys), where they irritate the mucous membranes. Continued for some time, they produce severe gastric catarrh. They reduce the number of the respirations, and the heart's action and force; and though diminishing the calibre of the arterioles, they lower arterial tension. They lessen the activity of the brain cells, producing somnolence; diminish the sensibility of the peripheral nerves, causing anaesthesia of the skin and mucous membranes. They impair motility and the sexual function, cause great pallor and emaciation, lowered body-temperature, acne on the face and upper extremities, fetid breath, dysphagia, sluggish reflexes and defective coordination ; and if long continued may even impair the mental faculties, producing hallucinations in some cases, in others melancholia with suicidal tendency ; also incompetence of the sphincters and paralysis, beginning at the periphery and extending to the centres. The general result of their action is termed "Bromism," and is heralded by the acne and lowered faucial sensibility. It is probably due to the sedative influence of these agents on the sympathetic system, causing general anaemia of the brain, spinal cord, sexual organs, and skin.
Differences in Action between the principal Bromides.
Potassium Bromide is the most toxic to the heart and the muscular system, and is the least hypnotic. It contains 66 per cent. of Bromine.
Sodium Bromide is the least toxic, but the most hypnotic, and acts most energetically on the circulation. It contains 78 per cent. of Bromine.
Ammonium Bromide resembles the Potassium salt in action, except that it exerts less influence on the heart and muscular system, and is somewhat more stimulating.
Lithium Bromide contains the most Bromine (92 per cent.), and resembles the Sodium salt in action. It has proved better than the others in some cases of epilepsy, and is considered the best hypnotic of the series.
Calcium Bromide is an efficient hypnotic, but otherwise not very active.
Strontium Bromide is said to be less apt than the others to produce the acne and other results of bromism.
Zinc Bromide produces effects generally similar to those of the other bromides, but is violently irritant in large doses.
Therapeutics. The Bromides are used as sedatives to the nervous system, to lower reflex activity, to produce sleep, to subdue excitement of the genital apparatus, and to antagonize congestion of the brain. Their use is terribly abused, by patients, nurses, and even by physicians,—as Dr. Hammond well elucidates in his book on Nervous Diseases. They should not be used in anaemic conditions, and never for any length of time without the daily supervision of a physician. The combination of Potassium Bromide with Chloral is very unsafe in cases where fatty or weak heart exists, both drugs being active cardiac depressants.
From this site:http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/eclectic ... omine.html
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Harry
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Here's an example of one I found a few years back.Susan @ Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:50 pm wrote: I also found from searching that Bromo-Caffeine came in small, round, light cobalt blue, 3 1/4" bottles.
As usual, good research Susan.
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Kat
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Nice bottle, Har.
Stef got me a clear purple-tinted bottle which is from a Smith's Drug Store, and is made to lie on it's side.
"Sam'l J. Smith
Pleasant Street
Stafford Square
Fall River, Mass."
On the bottom it is written:
"D. F. & D.
Pat'd May 15,88"
Augusta- At the inquest, Dr. Bowen said he hadn't prescribed (I guess bismuth powders "Or anything of that sort"?) for the Borden's- any of them.
115 (22)
DR. SEABURY W. BOWEN
Q. (Mr. Knowlton) Dr. Seabury W. Bowen?
A. Yes.
Q. You are a physician?
A. Yes.
Q. You lived next to the Bordens?
A. Yes.
Q. How long have you lived there?
A. I lived across the street from Mr. Borden twenty years.
Q. You undoubtedly were well acquainted with the family?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. And intimately so?
A. Well, yes, neighbors.
Q. You were their family physician?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. They did not need much doctoring?
A. No Sir.
Q. Had you attended Mr. Borden recently, previous to his being killed?
A. No Sir.
Q. Had you given him any bismuth powders, or anything of that sort?
A. No Sir.
Q. Do you know whether he had such things around the house?
A. I dont know.
Q. Have you ever prescribed them for him?
A. No Sir.
Q. Or for any member of the family?
A. Not that I remember of, I dont think I have.
Trial
Dr. Bowen
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
Q. (By Mr. Moody.) How many times did you personally see her take the medication?
A. Not more than twice, I think.
Q. When were those two times?
A. Between one and two in the afternoon, of Thursday.
Q. And that was bromo caffeine?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is bromo caffeine a medicine which has a tendency to create hallucinations a week or so after it has been taken?
A. No, sir.
....
Trial
Bowen
Q. I suppose physicians well understand the effect of morphine on the mind and on the recollection, don't they?
Page 329
A. Supposed to, yes, sir.
Q. Is there any question about it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know whether she had ever had occasion before to have morphine prescribed for her, as far as you know?
A. I don't remember that she had.
Stef got me a clear purple-tinted bottle which is from a Smith's Drug Store, and is made to lie on it's side.
"Sam'l J. Smith
Pleasant Street
Stafford Square
Fall River, Mass."
On the bottom it is written:
"D. F. & D.
Pat'd May 15,88"
Augusta- At the inquest, Dr. Bowen said he hadn't prescribed (I guess bismuth powders "Or anything of that sort"?) for the Borden's- any of them.
115 (22)
DR. SEABURY W. BOWEN
Q. (Mr. Knowlton) Dr. Seabury W. Bowen?
A. Yes.
Q. You are a physician?
A. Yes.
Q. You lived next to the Bordens?
A. Yes.
Q. How long have you lived there?
A. I lived across the street from Mr. Borden twenty years.
Q. You undoubtedly were well acquainted with the family?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. And intimately so?
A. Well, yes, neighbors.
Q. You were their family physician?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. They did not need much doctoring?
A. No Sir.
Q. Had you attended Mr. Borden recently, previous to his being killed?
A. No Sir.
Q. Had you given him any bismuth powders, or anything of that sort?
A. No Sir.
Q. Do you know whether he had such things around the house?
A. I dont know.
Q. Have you ever prescribed them for him?
A. No Sir.
Q. Or for any member of the family?
A. Not that I remember of, I dont think I have.
Trial
Dr. Bowen
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.
Q. (By Mr. Moody.) How many times did you personally see her take the medication?
A. Not more than twice, I think.
Q. When were those two times?
A. Between one and two in the afternoon, of Thursday.
Q. And that was bromo caffeine?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is bromo caffeine a medicine which has a tendency to create hallucinations a week or so after it has been taken?
A. No, sir.
....
Trial
Bowen
Q. I suppose physicians well understand the effect of morphine on the mind and on the recollection, don't they?
Page 329
A. Supposed to, yes, sir.
Q. Is there any question about it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know whether she had ever had occasion before to have morphine prescribed for her, as far as you know?
A. I don't remember that she had.
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augusta
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What interesting posts! Loved the bottle, Harry.
Hi, Susan! Fascinating research! So the 'bromide family' can extend from something almost harmless to something almost toxic.
Now I wonder which 'bromide' is in 'bromo-caffeine' - or the one Bowen gave Lizzie.
I get the impression that it was already mixed up, and they used the same "bromide" normally. First, there's Harry's bottle that gives no other printing than "Bromo Caffeine", like people knew what it was and it commonly went by that name. And then in the court, Bowen wasn't asked anything about the Bromide part - it reads as if everyone just knew that Bromo-Caffeine consists of this & that. The lawyers could have been uninformed, too, tho and not realized there was such a difference in the different bromides.
The word "bromide" means, according to my Webster's: "a compound of bromine and another element or a radical including some used as sedatives".
Its secondary definition is: "trite remark or notion". I'm sure I've never heard it used in that way. We could start, tho. "People call me the 'Sphynx of Coldness'. What a bromide that is!" No, no. Better coming from Eli Bence: "And when I told her she couldn't get prussic acid without a prescription, she uttered some bromide and left."
"Bromine" - again in my Webster's - "a deep red liquid corrosive chemical element that gives off an irritating vapor and occurs naturally only in combination." They say it's pronounced with a long "e" - bromEEn.
Which "bromide" was used in what Bowen gave Lizzie, I wonder?
Thanks for the testimony, Kat. So Dr. Bowen never prescribed anything like that for any of them before. That's helpful. ("Bismuth" is a white chemical used in medicines.) We could conclude from this that Lizzie was not under any medication for epilepsy or any other illness stemming from the brain.
Hi, Susan! Fascinating research! So the 'bromide family' can extend from something almost harmless to something almost toxic.
Now I wonder which 'bromide' is in 'bromo-caffeine' - or the one Bowen gave Lizzie.
I get the impression that it was already mixed up, and they used the same "bromide" normally. First, there's Harry's bottle that gives no other printing than "Bromo Caffeine", like people knew what it was and it commonly went by that name. And then in the court, Bowen wasn't asked anything about the Bromide part - it reads as if everyone just knew that Bromo-Caffeine consists of this & that. The lawyers could have been uninformed, too, tho and not realized there was such a difference in the different bromides.
The word "bromide" means, according to my Webster's: "a compound of bromine and another element or a radical including some used as sedatives".
Its secondary definition is: "trite remark or notion". I'm sure I've never heard it used in that way. We could start, tho. "People call me the 'Sphynx of Coldness'. What a bromide that is!" No, no. Better coming from Eli Bence: "And when I told her she couldn't get prussic acid without a prescription, she uttered some bromide and left."
"Bromine" - again in my Webster's - "a deep red liquid corrosive chemical element that gives off an irritating vapor and occurs naturally only in combination." They say it's pronounced with a long "e" - bromEEn.
Which "bromide" was used in what Bowen gave Lizzie, I wonder?
Thanks for the testimony, Kat. So Dr. Bowen never prescribed anything like that for any of them before. That's helpful. ("Bismuth" is a white chemical used in medicines.) We could conclude from this that Lizzie was not under any medication for epilepsy or any other illness stemming from the brain.
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Susan
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Love the idea of Bence uttering that! Too funny.