Fourteen Reasons to Believe Lizzie murdered her parents

[snokkums]

1) If not LIzzie, then who? Only Lizzie had goood opportunity to commit the murders. At the time of her mothers' murder (around 9:30 am) household guest John Morse was visiting relatives, sister Emma of of town, Andrew running errands and the maid was outside washing windows.
Only Lizzie was known to be in the house at the time of the murder. To commit both of the murders (Andrew was murdered around 11 am) an outside intruder would have either have to hide in the house for 90 minutes or leave and then return without being noticed.

2) It looks like an inside job. Police found no signs of force entry to the Borden home (despite the fact that they habitually locked their doors( and nothing appeared to be stolen. NO stranger was seen entering or leaving the Borden home.

3) Although Lizzie claijmed to have been downstairs at the very time her mother was violently murdered upstairs, she sadi she heard no alarming noise- despite her mother having been struck multiple times with an axe and falling to the floor.

4) On August 3rd, the day before the murders, witnesses identified Lizzie as having visited Smiths srugstore in Fall River, where she attempted to purchase poison, prussic acid. She sxplained that she needed the acid to clean a eal skin cape. The druggist refused to sell the prussaic acid.

5) On the night before the murders, Lizzie visited a neighbor, Alice Russsel and told her that she feared that some unidentified enemy of her father's might soon try to kill him.

6) Lizzie told police that while she was alone in the house with her mother on the morning of the murder, a messenger came to the door with a note summoning her mother to visit sick friend. Lizzie told people that she assumed her mother left. Despite a through search of the house, no note was ever found.

7) When bridget Sullivan came vack inside after haveing finished washing windows, around 10:30 am, she reported hearing a muffled laugh coming from upstairs. She assumed it was Lizzie making the noise (Lizzie if course denied being upstairs between her mother and fathers murdered).

8) At the time of the murder of Andrew Borden, Lizzie claimed t- have been in the love of the vackyard barn for 15 to 20 minutes looking for lead sinkers for a fishing excursion. Police found the loft so stifling hot that it was difficult to believe anyone would voluntarily remain in such place for as much as 20 minutes. They also found no foot printsin the loft that could substantiate LIzzies story.

9) Lizzie had straianed relationship with her stepmother. They usually at their meals separately. Some theorize that Lizzie resented the fact that her father transfered a Fall River property to Abby's sister, rather than to her. Police noted that during the interview, Lizzie insisted that Abby be described as her stepmother, not as her mother.

10) Although Lizzie appeared to have a somwhat better relationship with her distand and forbidding father, there were problems. Lizzie was out raged, for example, when her father beheaded pigeons in the barn loft for which she built a roost. Her father thought the pigeons attractedneighborhoood boys who broke in to the barn to hunt pigeons.


11) In the week before the murders, following an apparent arguement, Lizzie and her sisiter left Fall river by coach for New bedford. When Lizzie returned she chose to stay in a rooming houise for 4 days rather than in her room at the family residence.

12) In 1891 cash and jewelery were stolen from the master bedroom. It was an open secret that Lizzie was suspected as being the theif. Lizzie also had been accused by several local merchants for shoplifting.

13) Immediatly after the discovery of her parents bodies, LIzzie sent various persons who came to help off on errands. It seems strange that a awoman wouild choose to remain alone in a house if she thought a murdereer still might be nearabouts on the loose.

14) On August 7 3 days after the murders Alice Russell observed LIzzie buring a blue cordorouy dress in a kitchen fire. When asked about it LIzzie explained that she chose to destroy the dress because it was stained with old paint.

[theebmonique]

Snok,

Where did you find that ? Was it from the University of Missouri-Kansas School of Law website ?

If you just highlight, then copy/paste the web address from the URL bar, you can give credit/post the links to information you find online.


http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/project ... dence.html

http://www.law.umkc.edu/





Tracy...

[doug65oh]

That does look like something from Professor Linder's site. Can't find the link at the moment but I'm sure I first saw it on his Famous Trials site. Oh, wait - there it is. I see it now.

[snokkums]

found it on the website "famous trials"

[RayS]

1) If not LIzzie, then who? Only Lizzie had goood opportunity to commit the murders. At the time of her mothers' murder (around 9:30 am) household guest John Morse was visiting relatives, sister Emma of of town, Andrew running errands and the maid was outside washing windows.
Only Lizzie was known to be in the house at the time of the murder. To commit both of the murders (Andrew was murdered around 11 am) an outside intruder would have either have to hide in the house for 90 minutes or leave and then return without being noticed.

2) It looks like an inside job. Police found no signs of force entry to the Borden home (despite the fact that they habitually locked their doors( and nothing appeared to be stolen. NO stranger was seen entering or leaving the Borden home.

3) Although Lizzie claijmed to have been downstairs at the very time her mother was violently murdered upstairs, she sadi she heard no alarming noise- despite her mother having been struck multiple times with an axe and falling to the floor.

4) On August 3rd, the day before the murders, witnesses identified Lizzie as having visited Smiths srugstore in Fall River, where she attempted to purchase poison, prussic acid. She sxplained that she needed the acid to clean a eal skin cape. The druggist refused to sell the prussaic acid.

5) On the night before the murders, Lizzie visited a neighbor, Alice Russsel and told her that she feared that some unidentified enemy of her father's might soon try to kill him.

6) Lizzie told police that while she was alone in the house with her mother on the morning of the murder, a messenger came to the door with a note summoning her mother to visit sick friend. Lizzie told people that she assumed her mother left. Despite a through search of the house, no note was ever found.

7) When bridget Sullivan came vack inside after haveing finished washing windows, around 10:30 am, she reported hearing a muffled laugh coming from upstairs. She assumed it was Lizzie making the noise (Lizzie if course denied being upstairs between her mother and fathers murdered).

8) At the time of the murder of Andrew Borden, Lizzie claimed t- have been in the love of the vackyard barn for 15 to 20 minutes looking for lead sinkers for a fishing excursion. Police found the loft so stifling hot that it was difficult to believe anyone would voluntarily remain in such place for as much as 20 minutes. They also found no foot printsin the loft that could substantiate LIzzies story.

9) Lizzie had straianed relationship with her stepmother. They usually at their meals separately. Some theorize that Lizzie resented the fact that her father transfered a Fall River property to Abby's sister, rather than to her. Police noted that during the interview, Lizzie insisted that Abby be described as her stepmother, not as her mother.

10) Although Lizzie appeared to have a somwhat better relationship with her distand and forbidding father, there were problems. Lizzie was out raged, for example, when her father beheaded pigeons in the barn loft for which she built a roost. Her father thought the pigeons attractedneighborhoood boys who broke in to the barn to hunt pigeons.


11) In the week before the murders, following an apparent arguement, Lizzie and her sisiter left Fall river by coach for New bedford. When Lizzie returned she chose to stay in a rooming houise for 4 days rather than in her room at the family residence.

12) In 1891 cash and jewelery were stolen from the master bedroom. It was an open secret that Lizzie was suspected as being the theif. Lizzie also had been accused by several local merchants for shoplifting.

13) Immediatly after the discovery of her parents bodies, LIzzie sent various persons who came to help off on errands. It seems strange that a awoman wouild choose to remain alone in a house if she thought a murdereer still might be nearabouts on the loose.

14) On August 7 3 days after the murders Alice Russell observed LIzzie buring a blue cordorouy dress in a kitchen fire. When asked about it LIzzie explained that she chose to destroy the dress because it was stained with old paint.

I'm not going to spend the time to critique each point. Just one comment is enough: they all ASSUME that Lizzie dunnit and are otherwise nonsensical.
Point 11 "an apparent argument" is an example of their mindset.
PS
You didn't explain which of these were your own thoughts, and whether they are arranged in priority as to the strongest evidence.
Sherlock Holmes and Perry Mason both noted that "circumstantial evidence can point two ways". That's not just fiction.

Others say the police first suspected an intruder, given the lack of evidence against Bridget or Lizzie. Only after failing to discover an intruder did the police pick Lizzie (the inheritance).

In True Crime stories, like those from Ann Rule, you will learn that when the murder could not be committed by the inhabitants, then search for an Unknown Subject. (Lizzie did not tell all she knew: "it wasn't Bridget or anyone who worked for Father".

You, and others, would better spend your time reading the various books about the crime. The facts in the Trial Transcript may be helpful to an author, but the fact is the trial said "not guilty".

[theebmonique]

found it on the website "famous trials"

Would you by chance have a link for that website Snok ?





Tracy...

[RayS]

1) If not LIzzie, then who? Only Lizzie had goood opportunity to commit the murders. At the time of her mothers' murder (around 9:30 am) household guest John Morse was visiting relatives, sister Emma of of town, Andrew running errands and the maid was outside washing windows.
Only Lizzie was known to be in the house at the time of the murder. To commit both of the murders (Andrew was murdered around 11 am) an outside intruder would have either have to hide in the house for 90 minutes or leave and then return without being noticed.

We know from testimony (Lubinsky) that Lizzie was outside around 11am. Lizzie also said as much. This quote is a good example of backwards reasoning: "only Lizzie could have done it because we don't know of anyone else". That's called an 'argument from ignorance' in classical logic.
The lack of evidence against Lizzie or Bridget says it was an intruder. Then or now (read some true crime stories - Ann Rule's #9?).

[snokkums]

I got the list off the website: famous trial the lizzie borden trial. I just wrote them down as they were listed. I think they are all good reason that lizzie did it. I'll always believe Lizzie did it. She had good reason too. She hated her stepmother and she had a lot of resentment towards her father.

[RayS]

I got the list off the website: famous trial the lizzie borden trial. I just wrote them down as they were listed. I think they are all good reason that lizzie did it. I'll always believe Lizzie did it. She had good reason too. She hated her stepmother and she had a lot of resentment towards her father.

Thanks for for being straight and honest about your prejudice. Some might claim they really have no prejudice, but ...
There were plenty of suspects for killing Andy. Jos Carpenter and Walter (?) Brayton, as I remember. What about all those people who were kicked out of their homes when Andy foreclosed on their loans? Or those whose rent went up whenever they received a raise at work?

You are reasoning backwards. First you assume that Lizzie dunnit, then you pick your facts to prove your case. I recommend gathering the facts first (since the guilt wasn't obvious) and then seeing where they lead.

My 'Proof for Brown's Theory' does just this. It explains why it was an intruder (the police's first working theory, given the lack of evidence against Lizzie or Bridget). Then who this would likely be (two tests - who Lizzie would have shielded, and who the Ruling Class would accept as shielded).
You are free to hold on to your emotional needs, of course.