The other murders

[Bronte]

I have a question, I watched one of those ghost/psychic shows on YouTube, about the Borden's and their psychic kept saying that she felt like it was the maids boyfriend who killed Andrew and Abby.She was saying that Bridget was very protective of Lizzie and Emma and she had her boyfriend kill them because Andrew was molesting lizzie..I couldn't help but respond and say that there is no way that Bridget, would have referred to Lizzie or Emma as "the children" and that my belief is that Lizzie, was the killer and that Bridget most likely was aware of it and lied and said she did not see or hear anything that morning in order to keep herself from getting blamed for the murders.Here is my question I posted that months ago and I got a response this afternoon and he was telling me that they did not know it at the time of the taping but there were other murders at the 92nd st.addy before the Borden's moved in which I am well aware of thanks to you awesome ppl with your wealth of knowledge.I need some help in answering his reply that will make his head spin because I do not believe in psychics and this lady was telling everyone that she had never heard about the Borden case which is total nonsense and she was running around saying it was done to protect the children which is also over the top nonsense.Lizzie and Emma were grown women at the time of murders so now he wants to twist it and say but wait we just found out about prior deaths and that is what our psychic was picking up on and then he was telling me to do my research that I might get a surprise..I really want to bust them but I want to make sure I have all my ducks in a roll would someone give me dates and info so that I will be able to blow there story out of the water? I would really appreciate it. I would usually ignore this bs but he was such a know it all that I want to show him he's not that good at lying, and not to quite his day job.. I just need the dates and names and exactly what happened because I all I remember is something about a well and children being tossed in my their mother who was mental? I cannot remember how they were related to Lizzie but I believe it was thru her bio mother.I really need a good book to read in order to get all of this straight because I am such a novice it is laughable.

[Curryong]

That murder involved Lodowick Borden's second wife Eliza (the former Eliza Darling) and her children. Lodowick (or Lawdwick, two alternative spellings) was Lizzie's great uncle on her father's side. In early 1848 the family resided in a house which was later demolished but was on land which Dr Kelly, the neighbours of Andrew and Abby, later occupied. Lodowick and Eliza had three children.
The family maid went out to draw water from the well. While she was gone Eliza took her two youngest children,three year old Eliza junior and six month old Holder down to the cellar and drowned them in the cistern. She then stepped behind the chimney and cut her own throat with a razor, dying instantly. The only child to survive was the eldest child Maria. It was said that Eliza had been acting very strangely for some weeks. This was reported in the Fall River Weekly News of 4th May 1848, and as you can imagine it caused a sensation in the then small town of Fall River. Lodowick went on to marry twice more.

I got the above info from Parallel Lives: A social History of Lizzie Borden and Fall River, page 30. It is sold through the Fall River Historical Society. It was well researched and 100% accurate, so you can rely on it.

I agree about psychics. Too many of them are just sheer moneymaking frauds or idiots. I keep an open mind about ghosts, however!

All the same, why would a three year old and a baby be haunting a house which was built by Southard Miller (Mrs Dr Phoebe Bowen's father) in 1845 and bought and remodelled from a duplex to a single home by Andrew Borden only in April 1872? The rest of what the psychic speculated about Lizzie, Emma and the Borden murders is rubbish!

[Bronte]

I am right with when it comes to ghosts and spirits witnessed a couple of things that was not from our physical realm that's all I will say about that..Thanks for filling me in on the details Curryong..

[twinsrwe]

Thanks, Curry!

Bronte, you may find the following web sites interesting (Underlining is mine.).

Murder in the Well

Lawdwick Borden was the son of Martha Patty Bowen and Richard Borden. Lawdwick’s brother Abraham Bowen Borden was Andrew Jackson Borden’s father. Uncle Lawdwick was Lizzie Borden’s great-uncle.

Lawdwick would enjoy the company of four wives over the span of his life, not an unusual occurrence in the days when women often died in childbirth or from complications following childbirth. There are records of four marriages: Maria Briggs, Eliza Darling, Eliza Chace (sometimes seen as Chase), and Ruhama Crocker.

It is the second wife, Eliza Darling Borden who has piqued the excitement of Borden case scholars today, for it is she who did the unthinkable- she killed two of her three children and then took her own life.

This sad tale has endured for so long due primarily to Lizzie Borden herself- and her trial of 1893. Lizzie was carefully examined to determine if she were mentally competent. Questions were asked as to the sanity of the Borden clan in general. Not surprisingly the topic of Eliza Borden and her unfortunate children was introduced as a possible source of inherited madness. This was quickly shot down as Eliza Darling Borden was only a Borden by marriage, and not a blood relation to Lizzie Borden at all.

http://tinyurl.com/q7sasxj

Continued here…

http://tinyurl.com/lzsodqk



The following threads are from our forum, which contain some very interesting information:

Uncle Laddy

http://tinyurl.com/kbkfvsh

Reviving a fabulous thread

http://tinyurl.com/nbj6sg7

[twinsrwe]

You may also find this video interesting.



Here is the one I meant to post. It is a bit longer and contains the full segment:

Haunted Lizzie Borden B&B

Lizzie Borden B&B owner Lee-Ann Wilbur discusses the haunting of the house with Motel Williams and psychic Sylvia Browne on October 31, 2007.

http://tinyurl.com/m8ugvkf