Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Let's run with the realm of the what if. What if Abbey found out about an affair that Andrew was having with Bridget. What if Abbey killed Andrew, and then when Lizzie found out Abbey killed her father, Lizzie killed Abbey? Think that might be a senario?

You are coming up with some very interesting scenarios snokkums ! I have doubts that Abby could have killed Andrew because I believe it has been determined that Abby's death occured before Andrew's. I will check the website for an exact source for this information.


Tracy...

Maybe the time of Abbeys death was wrong? Anything is possible. Who knows, they never did find the right person. Or maybe they did and counld'nt get a conviction.

What if Andrew killed Abby because he wanted to have Bridget all to himself without caution of being caught. But Bridget has a change of heart after Abby is murdered and wants out of the whole thing, so she kills Andrew. A sort of "OH NO...now I'll never get away." If we are running in the realm of the really far fetched, that's a scenario.

What about the idea of Andrew killing Abbey and lizzie killing Andrew to make it look like a botched robbery attempt? Granted, Lizzie wasnt to crazy about Abbey, but she might not have wanted a scandel of her father having an affair with a maid servant and then killing his wife. Wouldn't look to good. And besides it wouldn't look to good if he killed the wife and she killed her father. But its what ever works.

snokkums @ Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:45 pm wrote:What about the idea of Andrew killing Abbey and lizzie killing Andrew to make it look like a botched robbery attempt? Granted, Lizzie wasnt to crazy about Abbey, but she might not have wanted a scandel of her father having an affair with a maid servant and then killing his wife. Wouldn't look to good. And besides it wouldn't look to good if he killed the wife and she killed her father. But its what ever works.

I'm a little confused about this one. Are you saying that Andrew killed Abby. Then Lizzie seeing her oportunity killed Andrew?

There wasn't a botched robbery and nothing was disturbed. Have you read the inquest and trial?
It took the police at least 24 hours, I believe, just to get the safe open, plus Andrew had a lot of money on him.

I am saying that abby killed andrew, and lizzie killed abby.

Snokkums, I believe it is generally accepted that Abby died BEFORE Andrew. So, I don't see it possible that Abby killed Andrew. Have you read something that states otherwise ?


Tracy...

William Masterton's book "Lizzie Didn't Do It" argues quite convincingly that Abby was killed after Andrew. But not that Abby killed Andrew.

Diana insisted I read that book for which I thank her. For those who have not read it, it is well written and the author is a long time Borden case expert who wrote numerous articles in the Lizzie Borden Quarterly.

Point well taken Harry...I need to read that one.


Tracy...

Interesting Harry, and I will try to find that book. I guess I learned from 911 that nothing is impossible.

What if, after the botched robbery when the robber tried to get into Andrew's room with a nail (to avert suspicion from his partners Abby and Lizzie who thought the key was on the mantle) and hit Andrew's safe for the "biggie," Abby and the robber had a meeting in the guest room and she attacked him with a hatchet and (h/s) took it away from her and killed her. Then the killer (perhaps Lizzie) waited until andrew came home because the key wasn't on the mantle (per Dr. Bowen) and couldn't find the key after he came home, so killed Andrew in frustration.
This brings up in reality an interesting issue. What if Andrew either mistakenedly, or started (tense?) a new policy of keeping his room key in his pocket. He might have, especially if he had just started the policy, thought he had his house key but instead had only his room key, while perhaps his house keys were placed on the mantle. Then, he got home, couldn't get into the front door, went to his room, got murdered, and Dr. Bowen got the wrong keys the first time because they were on the mantle (house keys) and the correct key (from Andrew's pocket) the second time. Now how the ring of keys get back into his pocket (per Dr. Dolan) is irrelevant because they did somehow get back into his pocket.
I'd suspect Dr. Bowen, and any Doctor would be much less weary of dead bodies (and consequently putting something into or taking out of a dead person's pocket - he'd probably done that hundreds of times) than the average person, as witnessed by Dr. Bowen's calling in Mrs. Churchill (?) to look at Andrew's dead body.

Kat @ Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:30 am wrote:There wasn't a botched robbery and nothing was disturbed. Have you read the inquest and trial?
It took the police at least 24 hours, I believe, just to get the safe open, plus Andrew had a lot of money on him.

Of course, it could be argued that something was taken, more precious than ca$h, which we don't know about.
(But still not made to look like a robbery- you'd think they'd think of that. Maybe they didn't want it known anything was taken at all- so no disturbance).

Continuing with the thoughts two posts above, the only difference in the Borden house that day which could be a reason for Andrew to have his room key in his pocket instead of on the mantle, was that Uncle John was visiting.
Did Andrew know or suspect something sinister about Uncle John?