{"id":3012,"date":"2018-07-05T14:35:35","date_gmt":"2018-07-05T18:35:35","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/lizzieandrewborden.com\/HatchetOnline\/?p=3012"},"modified":"2018-07-05T14:35:35","modified_gmt":"2018-07-05T18:35:35","slug":"a-talk-with-michael-martins-curator-fall-river-historical-society","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/lizzieandrewborden.com\/hatchetonline\/a-talk-with-michael-martins-curator-fall-river-historical-society\/","title":{"rendered":"A Talk with Michael Martins, Curator, Fall River Historical Society"},"content":{"rendered":"

by Stefani Koorey<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

First published in August\/September, 2004, Volume 1, Issue 4, The Hatchet: Journal of Lizzie Borden Studies<\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

What was it like growing up in Fall River?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

I shouldn\u2019t think it was any different than growing up at the same time in any other once-prosperous city that had fallen on hard times.<\/span><\/p>\n

How long did you know Florence Brigham and how long did you work with her at the FRHS?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

I met Mrs. Brigham in the summer of 1978 and worked with her until the time of her retirement. For many of those years, we were together seven days a week, so the closeness that developed was far beyond that of employer-employee. She was a great lady and it was a privilege to have known her so well.<\/span><\/p>\n

What drew you to the curator\u2019s position at the FRHS?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

It was Mrs. Brigham\u2019s recommendation to the Board of Directors that I take over for her. She had pretty much groomed me for the position and always said that she felt comfortable passing it on to me. For Mrs. Brigham, it was a very personal thing \u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

What is your favorite era of Fall River history?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

The glory days of Fall River, from the 1870s to the turn of the century, when Fall River was at its peak of prosperity, would have to be my favorite era of the city\u2019s history.<\/span><\/p>\n

What are some things you would like to see the FRHS acquire?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

In addition to any number of artifacts, including several important pieces related to the Borden case now in private collections, what the Society most desperately needs are the funds necessary for an endowment that would provide enough income to meet the Society\u2019s financial requirements.<\/span><\/p>\n

If you had unlimited funds, what would you do to the FRHS?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

With unlimited funds available, I would recommend to the Board that they hire a larger staff.<\/span><\/p>\n

Do you think the Borden murders will ever be solved?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

No, I do not believe the Borden murders will ever be solved. I think it absurd, almost presumptuous, that anyone believes that they will.<\/span><\/p>\n

Several items say Lizzie made a second trip to Europe after the 1893 trial.\u00a0 <\/span>Do you know anything about this?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

I have never seen any documentation regarding any additional trip Miss Borden made to Europe, however it is entirely possible. She did travel extensively in this country, as is evidenced by documentation which has recently surfaced.<\/span><\/p>\n

What is your favorite Lizzie anecdote?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t have one.<\/span><\/p>\n

Have you gotten the chance to speak to any Lizzie \u201csurvivors\u201d besides Florence Brigham (anyone directly associated with the Borden case, or their descendants)?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

Florence Brigham knew much about the Borden case, much more than she ever discussed \u2013 fascinating stuff, really. After all, it is important to remember that her mother-in-law was a close friend of both the Misses Borden, and knew much about them on a personal basis. Inasmuch as she (Mrs. B.\u2019s mother-in-law) did not say much about the case, she knew far more than has ever been brought to light, some of which she passed on to her daughter-in-law.\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

True to her upbringing, being a judge\u2019s daughter, she (F.C.B.) felt that there were some things that were best not made public. If the truth were told, the Borden case held no fascination for Mrs. Brigham. She discussed it because she had to; it was her job to do so. She had a great love for the city of Fall River, sans L.A.B.<\/span><\/p>\n

Through Mrs. Brigham, I was fortunate to have been able to meet a number of people who either had connections to the case (i.e. relations of key players), or people who would have encountered Miss Borden at some time or another in her lifetime. Many individuals were those we have sought out while doing research. There have also been several people who have come in to the museum over the years to introduce themselves or do research, who have definite connections to the case as well. Several members of the Borden family, descendants of Miss Borden\u2019s cousins, I have met, and some of them I know quite well. \u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Russell Lake, who grew up across the street from Lizzie, was a great guy, and I corresponded with him for quite some time. He was a firm believer in her innocence, as was his mother, who had been very friendly with Lizzie.\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

It would be difficult to list all those I have met, or worked with at some point, who were connected in some way to the case, but the following come to mind: Adelaide Churchill\u2019s great-nephew, an interesting man with great stories; the family of Rev. Buck; the Carpenter family (apparently, Joseph Carpenter was a character); several of the descendants of Jerome Borden; the Dolan family, who have made contributions to the Society\u2019s collection; descendants of the Gardners (Lizzie\u2019s Swansea cousins); the descendants of Charles Jarvis Holmes (in fact, I will be spending tomorrow at his former summer home); the baby that Miss Borden held when she was in the hospital (one of my favorite people); the daughters of Dr. Truesdale, the physician who performed her final surgery (real grande dames); the family of Vida Pearson Turner (some of whom were here last Friday); the family of Winward, the undertaker; the family of several of Miss Borden\u2019s domestics (some fascinating material there); the families of Dr. William T. and Elmer T. Learned; relations of Abby Durfee Gray; descendants of Charles Henry Wells, who taught Sunday school with Miss Borden (who have contributed a good amount of personal material to the Society\u2019s collection); the descendants of Andrew Jennings (great guys, very interested in the case); Miss Marion Holman from Central Church; the descendants of Hosea M. Knowlton; Bridget Sullivan\u2019s great-niece (who hated anything to do with the case and remembered her mother-in-law chasing Radin out of their yard brandishing a broom); several of the relatives of Anna and Carrie Borden (all hated and\/or hate Lizzie to this day); a relative of Charles C. Cook, who handled Miss Borden\u2019s financial affairs (had many items that belonged to Lizzie including her silver coffee and tea service, which is quite nice); the family of Mayor John W. Coughlin; the Fleet family; the Hilliard family (who contributed a collection of City Marshall Hilliard\u2019s personal files on the Borden case to the Society); and descendants of the Morse and Terry families. As I have said, there have been many, for example some of the clerks who sold her things like phonograph records and drapery fabrics.\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

I would have to say that one of my favorites was the last surviving of the \u201cladies\u201d who Agnes DeMille so keenly described her visit with when she was in Fall River researching her book, A Dance of Death<\/i>. Miss \u201cX,\u201d the youngest of several maiden sisters, was a great friend of Mrs. Brigham\u2019s, just a bit older than she, and rambled around in a massive, three-story Victorian just as she had since childhood. Mrs. Brigham and I were usually invited to \u201ctake tea\u201d a few times a year, and it was always an experience. One would have thought it was 1900 and not the early 1980s. Others would have to be certain members of the family of Mr. and Mrs. Preston Gardner, with whom Emma spent a great deal of time during her later life. They have always been very generous with their time, money, and personal family material and recollections. Great people, one of whom I will always consider one of the finest men I have ever known.<\/span><\/p>\n

It is important to remember that there are still individuals who, although in some way connected, choose not to make these connections known and do not speak of the case out of respect for their ancestors. Though some of these people have visited the Society and discussed their thoughts and shared their artifacts, their desire for anonymity must be respected.\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

What was the most exciting event that took place associated with the FRHS since you\u2019ve been there (besides Sherry Chapman coming to visit)?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m afraid I\u2019m not the excitable type.<\/span><\/p>\n

What would you like to see studied in the Borden case that has yet to be examined?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

I think the life of Miss Borden after 1893 is far more interesting than anything that occurred before that date.<\/span><\/p>\n

Where do you see Michael Martins in 20 years?<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

I have no idea, and do not suppose anyone does.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

An in-depth interview with the curator of the Fall River Historical Society, Michael Martins.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":3013,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[33],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3012","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interviews"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/lizzieandrewborden.com\/hatchetonline\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3012","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/lizzieandrewborden.com\/hatchetonline\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/lizzieandrewborden.com\/hatchetonline\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lizzieandrewborden.com\/hatchetonline\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lizzieandrewborden.com\/hatchetonline\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3012"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/lizzieandrewborden.com\/hatchetonline\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3012\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/lizzieandrewborden.com\/hatchetonline\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3012"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lizzieandrewborden.com\/hatchetonline\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3012"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lizzieandrewborden.com\/hatchetonline\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3012"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}