Searching for the "Real Killer(s)"

[mbhenty]

Yes PIPPI: Though I don't know you, please allow me to convey my apology about your mom.

I think that your worry is for nothing. Perhaps you are being to harsh on yourself. I suspect that you were taken off gaurd and surprised by the way you handled the whole ordeal and in judging yourself harshly, you are thinking others are doing the same.

When someone suffers a long illness, one that they are not expected to survive, we start grieving slowly and over a long period of time. The expected shock, when death comes, hits us a lot less sever. It is a long, painful, tiring road, and acceptance, though not any easier, much buffered by the lenght of time that we were given to prepare.

But as this time goes by, there is no reason to act as a monk. And I don't think anyone is judging you, and perhaps, are probably thinking, "I hope I can be that strong when someone close to me passes."

You sound like a very strong person, one that is there for someone when they need you. I am afraid I am not. I did not go to my fathers, brothers, or best friends wake or funeral. Many were confused, those close to me fully understood. No one dared have a harsh word about my absense. If they did it was not important. What was important was the loved ones around me. And none of them begrudged me for it. Everyone handles death in their own way. The way you handled it, by being there with Mom till the end, was admiralble. I would never be able to do it.


I think you must deal with how you feel about yourself, and not worry about others. Our loved ones would want us to return to normal life as soon as possible.

I had to coach my mom when my dad died. She constantly worried about not wearing black all the time. She wore black for one year, and unlike many of her contemporaries, these old world people, who would wear all black all their lives.

I think that your Mom propably raised a person of strong character, and moral fiber, one with the tools to handle death life or what ever the world throws at you. In doing so, I think you are surprise by how well you are handling the affair. And because of society and thier expectations, it has thrown you into a stumble of concern, and shackling you with guilt. And guilt is a normal thing to feel, but not a normal thing to wallow in. You probably know this.

Your mom would want you to go about life and do well, and it is the best memorial you can give her, to take care of yourself, her child, for who she would lay down her life for. All mother's would. best revenge, to see their child happy. What everyone around you thinks on the matter should be of little concern to you. You loved her dearly, you know that , she knew that, and that is all that is important. But I think in being concern about what people will say about you, going on with your life, is more about you and not them. That is to say your guilt is stopping, and making you ask, "I wonder how I am precieved." I think that loved ones around you are probably carrying only compassion for you, no matter how you display yourself. That's all that should matter.

I had a good friend, who had a wife who was in a coma and was brain dead. He took care of her at home for 6 years. Her bed was right in the middle of the livingroom. When I went over to his house I was expected to act normal. We played video games, watched movies, cranked up Metalica CD's. And shared it with his wife. He even had parties.

He had these large picture windows on the front of his house. You could see his wife in the bed, a room full of people dancing, talking, drinking. Drunks falling in his shrubs, no diffrent than years pass. Upon approching the house it appeared that a mad man lived there. How cruel could someone be. Even I would approach the house and think, something wrong with this picture.

But you know, there was not. He loved his wife dearly and life went on just like it did when she was healthy. She use to make a mean margarita and everyone would have one with her.

He even took her to Vermont to a lake where they use to go every year. He would spend a bundle to hire an ambulance to take her 300 miles. He wanted his wife, even if she had no idea what was going on, to live a normal life. The last thing his wife would want was all of us around her bed grieving, praying and crying. How morbid is that for the ill or dying.

They were dear friends. One day I was looking at her and feeling real bad. I started to choke and my friend came over placed his hand on my shoulder and said, "Michael if your going to get upset, I don't think my wife would want you here."

When I asked him if he was concerned about what his neigbhors thought. He crudely said, "that is why God gave us one finger much longer than all the others.

Of course we are not all as practical as my friend or as weak as I am, most of people are somewhere in the middle, and I think you are probably closer to him than to me, and that's a good thing. It shows strenght. And you should not confuse that with guilt. Try to get happy. It's what mom would want.

[mbhenty]

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[Kat]

I assume this wasn't the real persons, only actors reading the line prepared for them. In real life crimes are not committed, detected, and solved in less than 60 minutes.

--Ray

Thanks for sharing your story, Ray. I'm sorry for your loss. It seems a lot of members have been suffering in private the last 2 years, until even just recently, and just now revealing it.
~~ ~ ~ ~
As for my reference - maybe you don't get cable TV where they have A&E and Court TV? The show I am describing had the real participants and recreated the circumstances at the time. They showed film and photos of the son- and I think they had a statement from him recorded earlier in the investigation. It wasn't actors.
~~~
Did anyone see the Dennis Radar show tonight on A&E? I tried to go back in the Yahoo TV guide to 9 pm but it will not go backwards, only forwards, so I don't know the name of the show. It was NEW, and showed the bodies, some had pixels blurred, some were extreme close-ups of wounds so the context was not sensationalized. I had never seen these shots before.
These pictures had a LOT of impact! Especially the little girl who was hung.

[doug65oh]

the program about the Dennis Rader case that you saw on A&E Kat was an episode of "Cold Case Files." It's being rebroadcast as I type this.

[RayS]

[quote="SallyG @ Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:02 pm]

Sorry, RayS...I have to agree with Audrey on this one. You are many times tiresome and tedious, and remind me of my former father-in-law, who had no tolerance for anyone else's opinion on anything and always shouted them down while banging his fist on the table! I'm sure you have many good ideas, but your attitude at times leaves a lot to be desired.[/quote]

Maybe you have failed to make an independent judgment and are letting your past emotional experiences overwhelm your analysis of the current situation?

IF I am "tedious" why reply with a deliberatly insulting comment? Since when has Audrey been authorized to speak for Kat? THAT is just being a troublemaker, in my opinion (let's see you and him fight).

Unlike too many here, I have read everything on this simple murder mystery that I could find in my library system over the past 8 years. My comments express my gained knowledge based on the books and other experiences.

No sarcastic comments about "tag sale items" either. Some books are surplus, others were donated. My library ofter buys 2 or more copies of best sellers, then disposes of the surplus after 4-5 years. Isn't that the right way to run a library? I learned years ago that the library has a bigger budget and more storage space than I ever will.

[RayS]

the program about the Dennis Rader case that you saw on A&E Kat was an episode of "Cold Case Files." It's being rebroadcast as I type this.

WAS that the "BTK" killer from Kansas? That's the type of real horror stories that I try to avoid. Imagine your local armed official asking you for something, then killing and torturing your family? THAT is a real nightmare. I find it hard to believe that nobody suspected him.

ALSO I am more interested in cases that have political overtones. Tom Mooney, Dr Sam Sheppard, to name just a few. Lizzie's case is interesting in itself.

Didn't Jennings mention "a skeleton in the Borden closet, if there was one" in his address to the jury? Wouldn't this information be kept secret from a young girl like Victoria Lincoln. "Stay away from her, she was unkind to her parents" when the fact is Lizzie was friends with an ACTRESS!!! Are there morals any different from today?

[Audrey]

FYI..... Audrey was speaking for AUDREY.

[RayS]

There aren't many books written about the Borden Murders.

Porter was a newspaper reporter, his book is from his contemporary knowledge of the case.

Pearson was a writer who took old material, recycled it with his opinions and presented it for entertainment.

Radin was a newspaper reporter who attended hundreds of murder trials, and wrote a number of books. He did visit and interview some people who knew Lizzie directly or indirectly.

Lincoln was a novelist who used remembered gossip for her book.

Sullivan was a retired judge, who interviewed Abby Borden Whitehead Potter for his material. He asked about the "incorruptibility" of Judge Dewey. (My answer is that Dewey would not take money to free a guilty person, but perhaps would be willing to free an innocent person.)

Spiering was a writer who wrote a book that had a new and novel solution. Did he include a lot of footnotes and citations?

Along came Brown with the innovative solution of an Unknown Subject (as per "Todd Lunday"). His book is no more fiction than any other, in fact Brown was not a professional writer.

Masterton's book seems derived from its relevance to the murders of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson. Their fresh red liquid blood said they were killed after 11:30 pm. (Do you agree?)

I haven't read any others. Have I missed anything?

[RayS]

FYI..... Audrey was speaking for AUDREY.

Why can't we all just get along?

[sguthmann]

Re: behavior and grieving...

understandably, we all grieve differently, just as we all act differently under different circumstances. why should grief be any different. fri profiler john douglas who literally wrote the book on behaviorial profiling was quick to point out that it's easy to get caught up in placing too much emphasis on how a person behaves following a crime when it appears to be against "the norm" or how they would be "expected" to behave. this goes for grief as well. but really, this means next to nothing. maybe the behavior is "uncharacteristic" of how "most people would behave," but the key is not in comparing the person's behavior to "most people" - it is comparing the behavior to that person's known behavior outside the crime/tragedy. From what I've read of Lizzie, she was somewhat stoic and noncommunicative except for those perhaps within her most inner circle. she did not have many close friends and didn't wear her heart on her sleeve. there are certainly accounts of her grieving, especially right after the murders. and yes, she was medicated, and that might alter her behavior as well. but as far as I can tell, her behavior following the murders was not unlike what one would expect from accounts of her before the murders.