Moderator: Adminlizzieborden
murder1 @ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:39 pm wrote:Hi,
I too am a "newbie," just joined today. I am really excited to be a part of this wonderful group. I am a crime historian living in Cambridge. I wrote my Master's thesis at Harvard Extension on the Parkman murder (1849) with the late Dr. William Gienapp. I have also published on the Parkman case and the Mary Anne Bickford murders here in Boston. Commonwealth Editions asked me to write a short book on Lizzie, scheduled for release this June!
I look forward to lively discussions and hopefully I can add something meaningful to the discussion.
Sincerely,
Karen
Good choice, Bob. The illustrations are fantastic. Contains a few errors but all in all a fair treatment of the case. Wish I could draw that well.Bob Gutowski @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:45 pm wrote:I've bought him the Geary book, which I think is the perfect intro to the crimes. I will tell him that the preface is fictional - that the book is NOT based on the unpublished memoirs of one of Lizzie's contemporaries.
Does the fairness result from using the theory in Arnold Brown's book?Harry @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:33 pm wrote:Good choice, Bob. The illustrations are fantastic. Contains a few errors but all in all a fair treatment of the case. Wish I could draw that well.Bob Gutowski @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:45 pm wrote:I've bought him the Geary book, which I think is the perfect intro to the crimes. I will tell him that the preface is fictional - that the book is NOT based on the unpublished memoirs of one of Lizzie's contemporaries.
But how can you claim that when you know that the memoirs of Ellan Eagan and Henry Hawthorne were the basis for Arnold Brown's book?Bob Gutowski @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:45 pm wrote:...
I've bought him the Geary book, which I think is the perfect intro to the crimes. I will tell him that the preface is fictional - that the book is NOT based on the unpublished memoirs of one of Lizzie's contemporaries.
Memoirs?RayS @ Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:50 am wrote:But how can you claim that when you know that the memoirs of Ellan Eagan and Henry Hawthorne were the basis for Arnold Brown's book?Bob Gutowski @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:45 pm wrote:...
I've bought him the Geary book, which I think is the perfect intro to the crimes. I will tell him that the preface is fictional - that the book is NOT based on the unpublished memoirs of one of Lizzie's contemporaries.
Does the back cover still show the two people correctly found 'not guilty' but considered 'guilty' by the corporate propaganda organs?
There is no point in sending it.... A person would have a better chance of proving the moon is made of green cheese than proving Arnold Brown's wild theory.RayS @ Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:34 pm wrote:I remember Arnold Brown's book saying it was based on the notebooks from Lewis "Pete" Peterson. So you can get in touch with him and offer him your money. (Assuming he'll fall for that line.)
So where is that reward money today? Have you sent it to Stefani, the moderator of this forum?
Why not? What excuse do you have?
OK, you admit you are prejudiced and can't handle a fact. If you read with understanding, you would know that I never said anything about "new evidence" either.Audrey @ Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:38 pm wrote:There is no point in sending it.... A person would have a better chance of proving the moon is made of green cheese than proving Arnold Brown's wild theory.RayS @ Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:34 pm wrote:I remember Arnold Brown's book saying it was based on the notebooks from Lewis "Pete" Peterson. So you can get in touch with him and offer him your money. (Assuming he'll fall for that line.)
So where is that reward money today? Have you sent it to Stefani, the moderator of this forum?
Why not? What excuse do you have?
I may as well leave it in my own account, drawing interest.... Of course if you have new evidence Ray, because Brown certainly did NOT, please share it with us...
Your quote sounds like something from a Hollywood film. Was it "The Quiet Man", "The Searchers", or "The Shootist"?W Brayton Cook @ Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:29 pm wrote:Pardon me, but Ray, where I come from it is poor manners to speak to other people, especially women this way.
Is this how you speak to people in person as well?
I started this topic line searching for information on best books. If you have an opinion on that I'd appreciate it. If not...
Congratulations on your reading. That contrasts to other members of this group who are long on "personalities" and short on objective comments.1bigsteve @ Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:50 pm wrote:So far, William, I've read only Speiring's, Radin's, Lincoln's and Brown's.
...
Brown's I read once and couldn't get up enough steam to read it a second time. Maybe one day. His theory is a little too far out there and I haven't seen any proof but then the other books don't provide proof for their theories either. Brown's theory may turn out to be right but I need the proof before I am convinced, of this book or ANY other.
If Bill Borden was the killer, and was skilled with a hatchet, then why were the wounds so shallow?? Some of the wounds hardley broke the surface of Abby's scalp. Some of those wounds could have been made worse if you had dropped the hatchet on her. I have a duplicate of Lizzie's handless hatchet and it is heavy. A man skilled in the use of a hatchet is going to do some major damage big time! I still think the killer was a woman.
-1bigsteve (o:
I remember with my sister hanging out at bookstores and looking thru true crime books for pictures. We had grown up on true crime, among other genres.stuartwsa @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:05 am wrote:Kat, I think you're right about Radin being the first modern book to carry photos of the bodies. His was the first book I was able to find in the library about the case, and as a teenager I was absolutely delighted to find that it had those lovely gory photos!
In actuality, the first reading I did about the Borden case was an article in the old Liberty Magazine. But I don't remember if that had illustrations of the bodies or not.
Ooo, look what I found in the LBQ. I hadn't really noticed it before!DWilly @ Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:40 pm wrote:There are some books about Lizzie that I notice don't seem to get mentioned very much if at all. For example, when I go to Barnes and Noble I see that Joyce Williams has a "Source" book. I have never read it but it is newer than Kent's "Source" book. Does it offer anything that Kent's book doesn't?
Another thing. I checked out the books offered at the Fall Rivers Historical Society and saw a couple that seemed interesting. One was on the history of the church that Lizzie belonged to. Is that book any good? Does it have more on Rev. Buck? Anything on Lizzie in it?
The job I had there was an historians dream, taking me into many hidden closets and small spaces within the building. Having no interest, and only focused on the Stones Concert I was to attend that weekend, I took little time to appreciate the heart and bowels of the structure I was crawling thru. 
I've read it; it wasn't particularly useful to me. It's basically just a collection of very familiar true-crime stories with a few other essays on espionage and the like.mbhenty @ Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:16 pm wrote:Just wanted to pick the groups brain a little on a title I am not familiar with, but that I purchased last year and threw on my shelf; hoping to read someday.
It's called "The Ability To Kill" by Eric Ambler. I believe he was a British criminologist writing in the 50s and 60s about true crime.
When I purchased it I thought there was a chapter on Lizzie but I was wrong. There is nothing written about Lizzie in the book.
But there is a chapter where Mr. Ambler mentions speaking to a group called, "THE INCORPORATED SOCIETY OF AMERICAN MURDER-TASTERS." where he claimed to give a speech at one of their gatherings called "THE LIZZIE BORDEN MEMORIAL LECTURES." (but not about Lizzie Borden instead on famous murders in Europe, I think?)
The book was printed in 1963. Can anyone expound on it.
Eric Ambler (died circa 1996?) was a very famous author. Any of his fictional works will tell you about him. I reread some of his pre-war adventure novels last year. He mostly wrote fiction that used current events as a background. In today's world, his book would be set in the Middle East. He was an engineer by training.mbhenty @ Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:16 am wrote:Just wanted to pick the groups brain a little on a title I am not familiar with, but that I purchased last year and threw on my shelf; hoping to read someday.
It's called "The Ability To Kill" by Eric Ambler. I believe he was a British criminologist writing in the 50s and 60s about true crime.
When I purchased it I thought there was a chapter on Lizzie but I was wrong. There is nothing written about Lizzie in the book.
But there is a chapter where Mr. Ambler mentions speaking to a group called, "THE INCORPORATED SOCIETY OF AMERICAN MURDER-TASTERS." where he claimed to give a speech at one of their gatherings called "THE LIZZIE BORDEN MEMORIAL LECTURES." (but not about Lizzie Borden instead on famous murders in Europe, I think?)
The book was printed in 1963. Can anyone expound on it.
--mbhentyTHE INCORPORATED SOCIETY OF AMERICAN MURDER-TASTERS." where he claimed to give a speech at one of their gatherings called "THE LIZZIE BORDEN MEMORIAL LECTURES."
I am sure it was "real" at the time, but may now be extinct. Searching through NY state incorporation records could provide more details, but who cares?Kat @ Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:18 pm wrote:That sounds like maybe this *Organization* is fictional?
I've never heard of it. There might have been something equivalant at the time, tho:
--mbhentyTHE INCORPORATED SOCIETY OF AMERICAN MURDER-TASTERS." where he claimed to give a speech at one of their gatherings called "THE LIZZIE BORDEN MEMORIAL LECTURES."
