Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Good question , Missy. I would assume he would have one. Do we know how loose fitting a woman's gossamer would be?

There is some indication that Officer Doherty may have been color blind.

The trial transcripts at times do not always give the flavor of the atmosphere inside the court room. The newspapers come in handy when they report that flavor.

Doherty at the Preliminary hearing is questioned quite extensively about what he thought the color of Lizzie's dress was on the morning of the 4th. He was asked to see if he could find a similar color in the courtroom and he thought the nearest thing to what he saw was the color of a man's tie who was seated nearby.

That scene was reported in the Evening Standard (August 30th) as follows:

"When I [Doherty] saw Lizzie at the house when I was there on the day of the tragedy I have a faint recollection that the color of her dress was light blue. The bosom was starched. The dress I think was what might be called figured challie. At this point the laugh went round the court room as witness had previously said the dress was print. He was asked to look around the room and see if he could tell any color looking like the dress. He took an observation, and then lighted on Mr. Spear's (of the New York Sun) necktie, and said it was like it. Mr. Spear said he had on a white tie, and then it was more apparent that the witness was color blind."

It raises the question in my mind as to whether there are any common mixups in colors that a color blind person sees or does it vary from person to person.

Here is the description of Lizzie's dress by the dressmaker who made it.

Trial testimony of Mary A. Raymond page 1578:

Q.Can you describe the dress?
A. It was a light blue with a dark figure.

Q. How light a blue?
A. Well, quite a light blue. I don't know that I can tell you exactly.

Q. What they call baby blue?
A. No, I think not, not as light as baby blue.

Q. Do you remember what the figure was upon it?
A. I can't remember the shape of the figure. It was a dark figure and I think--

Q. Can you say about how large?
A. No, I don't think I can?

Q. In what manner was it made?
A. It was made a blouse waist, and a full skirt, straight widths.

Q. How as it as to the sleeves?
A.The sleeves were full sleeves, large sleeves.

Q. How was it as to the length?
A. Longer than she usually had them.

Q. How did the length compare with those of the other dresses made for her at that time?
A. Well, I should certainly say it was a half a finger longer, two inches longer.

Q. Did you make a pink wrapper for her at this time?
A. I made a pink striped wrapper.

Q. Was this dress longer or shorter than that?
A. I should think longer.

Q. Now what was the material of which this Bedford cord was made?
A. Why it was a Bedford cord. That was the name of the material.

Q. Well, I meant as to whether it was cotton or woolen or cheap goods?
A. It was cotton, a cheap cotton dress.

Q. Was it trimmed at all?
A. Trimmed with a ruffle around the bottom.

Q. A ruffle of what?
A. Of the same.-------------------------------

page 1581:

Q. ( By Mr. Knowlton) What sort of waist was it?
A. Blouse waist.

Q. That means a loose--
A.That means a loose front.

edit -Sorry Harry I was typing and didn't see your post until after I had already submitted mine. I am not sure how loose fitting the gossamer's were at that time. I think it would be worth a little research.

From what Missy posted, Emma testified that she thought Abby's gossamer was kept in the front hall closet.

Thomas Keiran testified at the trial (p106) that he conducted an experiment with that closet:

"Q. Will you describe the experiment?
A. A man went into the closet and I shut the door on him in there.
Q. The closet in the front hall?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At the foot of the stairs?
A. Yes, sir."

Then on page 108:

"Q. Did you notice whether there was anything in the closet at the time?
A. There were some things in it, yes, sir, that I noticed.
Q. Whether or not you knew what they were ?
A. I think there were some leaves from a dining table in a box which stood up on end, and I think a carpet sweeper."

I am not quite sure of the date of this experiment but there is no mention of Abby's gossamer being in the closet. I know Kieran took some measurements at Dr. Dolan's request in the guest room on the 16th but I will need to research further the dates he was there.

Shelley @ Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:58 pm wrote:I found it also worthy of note that Lizzie went to put on that pink and white striped wrapper with great alacrity, lay down on her bed and effectively kept the police from searching the room or her person. I believe they asked her was that HER idea or someone else's.

The presence of the male authority figures of Bowen and Jubb in the room also deterred the aggressive search of police of Lizzie's person and room. Smart move.

Lizzie also had to produce the key to the dress closet- which means she had control over entry into that area.

It was the Reverend Buck who was with Lizzie at the scene in her room.

The Witness Statements page 2 from the notes of John Fleet:

Saw Lizzie A. Borden in bedroom on same floor, was sitting with Minister Buck on lounge. Asked her what she knew of these murders.

Trial testimony of John Fleet page 461:

Q. Thence where did you go?
A. I came out the head of the stairs, turned to the right to open the door, but found it was locked. I asked if there was anybody in the house that knew anything about it. Dr. Bowen--

Q. What door was this that you came out of the guest chamber and turned --
A. To the right.

Q. Where does that door lead to?
A. To a closet over the stairs.

page 462

Q. Finding it locked, then, you had some talk with some one, and where did you go: what did you do?
A. I went into the room where Miss Lizzie was, sitting down on a lounge or sofa with Rev Mr. Buck, Miss Russell being in the room.

Q. Was that a bedroom, or down stairs?
A. That was in Lizzie's bedroom, up stairs, at the head of the stairs.

Q. Did you have any talk with her at that time?
A. I did.

---------------------

page 469:

Q. Will you describe all that you did and said after you got up into the hallway up stairs-- the front hallway up stairs?
A. I went to Lizzie's door, rapped on the door. Dr. Bowen came to it, holding the door-- opening the door, I should say, about 6 or 8 inches, and asked what was wanted. I told him that we had come there as officers to search this room and search the building. He then turned around to Miss Borden and told me to wait a moment. He then opened the door again and said---

Q. He had shut it in the meantime?
A. He had;he closed the door. He then opened the door again and said that Lizzie wanted to know if it was absolutely necessary for us to search that room. I told him as officers, murders having been committed, it was our duty so to do, and we wanted to get in there. He closed the door again and said something to Miss Borden, and finally opened the door and admitted us.

-----------------------------------

page 490:

Q. At that time what searches of the house did you make-- that day?
A. That day?

Q. Yes, sir.
A. I searched the room of Lizzie and Emma Borden.

Q. I would like to have you begin in the order in which you made them?
A. Well, we will commence with Lizzie's room then. I searched Lizzie's room and Emma's room.

Q. Who were there?
A. Officers Wilson and Minnehan.

Q. And yourself?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who else were in the room?
A. At that time?

Q. Yes, sir.
A. Dr. Bowen, Mrs. Holmes, and Lizzie Borden.

Q. Was Mr. Buck there then?
A. No, sir.

he does admit in testimony they had not searched the room as well as they might have. They didn't move anything off the bed.

Harry @ Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:42 pm wrote:From what Missy posted, Emma testified that she thought Abby's gossamer was kept in the front hall closet.

Thomas Keiran testified at the trial (p106) that he conducted an experiment with that closet:

"Q. Will you describe the experiment?
A. A man went into the closet and I shut the door on him in there.
Q. The closet in the front hall?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At the foot of the stairs?
A. Yes, sir."

Then on page 108:

"Q. Did you notice whether there was anything in the closet at the time?
A. There were some things in it, yes, sir, that I noticed.
Q. Whether or not you knew what they were ?
A. I think there were some leaves from a dining table in a box which stood up on end, and I think a carpet sweeper."

I am not quite sure of the date of this experiment but there is no mention of Abby's gossamer being in the closet. I know Kieran took some measurements at Dr. Dolan's request in the guest room on the 16th but I will need to research further the dates he was there.

Thanks for the information Harry. Kieran seems like a pretty observant fellow. I think if it were hanging in the closet during that time it would have been noticed. Someone trying to stand in such a confined space is bound to take note of their surroundings, especially if it may possibly have been hanging in their way and had to be moved.

I couldn't find any other date that Kieran was there other than the 16th. By that time they had plenty of time to innocently remove Abby's gossamer.

Didn't Jennings also make a similar experiment? If so, when?

This is getting confusing. In radin's book it says the man-in-the closet experiment was conducted by Jennings in Kieran's presence.

Kieran testified he conducted the experiment. HELP!

EDIT here: Okay, now I get it. Apparently it was the same experiment. I should have dropped back one more page in the trial to page 105:

"Q. Did you [Kieran] see at that time any experiment performed as to whether a person could or could not go in there and have the door completely shut?
MR. MOODY. Well, I pray your Honors judgment as to that.
MASON, C. J. He may answer.
A. I did."

Then he goes on to describe the experiment. I at first took it that he was conducting the experiment.

Following your post I went back to reread Kieran's testimony to see if there were any other clues I might find. I found this.

Trial testimony of Thomas Keiran page 116:

Q. I will not ask you to do that. By the way, who was it, or with whom was it that you made these experiments with reference to the closet in the front entry.
A. With Mr. Jennings.

Q. I did not understand you.
A. With Mr. Jennings.

Q. Is there any ventilation whatever to that closet except by keeping the door open or partially open?
A. I did not see any.

Q.How long did Mr. Jennings stay in there with the door shut?
A. Mr. Jennings did not go in the closet.

Q. Then you misunderstood my question.
A. I mean that he did not go in the closet at the time to which I refer. He called my attention to the experiment. Mr. Phillips went in the closet.

Q. Mr. Phillips, associate of Mr. Jennings?
A. Yes, sir. Mr. Jennings went in the closet but not at the time I made my experiment.

edit- I passed you in posting Harry. I was reading over testimony and typing again.

Yes, that was my fault for not dropping back far enough. You'll get old too.

The Knowlton Papers contain quite a few letters suggesting he check the gossamers. There is even one where Knowlton himself writes (page 74):

"HK067 - Letter, typewritten, with enclosure handwritten in ink.

COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS,
OFFICE OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY
FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT.

New Bedford, Mass., Sept. 9, 1892.

Hon. A. E. Pillsbury,
Dear Sir,
The enclosed reports gives all the facts the police had in regard
to the burglary. It certainly lends some additional mystery to the case.
Please keep it among the papers.
If you see Wood ask him if he thinks there would be any use in
now examining a gossamer which was found in the closet with no apparent stains upon it, whether it could be easily cleaned so that blood could not be found anywhere upon it.
What has become of the fifth hatchet?

Yours truly, H. M. Knowlton ..."

So apparently the police recovered a gossamer but unfortunately Knowlton's letter doesn't say whose it was - Lizzie's or Abby's. Drat!

It seems more logical to me that a gossamer would be a better choice than Andrew's Prince Albert coat.

Gossamners are designed to be worn over clothes and therefore would have to provide for some flexibility in arm movement.

Does anyone have a photo or drawing of a 1892 gossamer? Think I read somewhere they extended down to the floor.

The best I could come up with was an ad from 1872 for Goodyear rubber coats, looks like it covered everything on the women.

Excellent- we are getting somewhere. But when was that search done so thoroughly of Lizzie's room- I thought it was Saturday- the day of the funeral. Thursday I thought she firmly installed herself in that room, made 2 trips down the cellar around 8:45, once with Alice. Even when the cop saw something poking out from Emma's door, he did not investigate immediately- Lizzie pretty much told him to bug off, and Bowen seconded that. I have noted the correction of Buck for Jubb- it never does to rely on memory after age 50.

The testimony I posted was for the search of Lizzie's room that took place on Thursday, the day of the murders. I forgot to specify that in my post so as not to confuse anyone. The question, Thence where did you go? was in response to Fleet saying he had been in the guest room to see Abby's body and was coming out of that room. There are references to them doing a casual search of the dress closet that day also. But it does not seem they are doing an in depth search of either the dress closet, or Lizzie and Emma's room.

Yes, her drawers were not searched as going through her personal things with her still around hovering would not have been the thing. I always thought she had something between her mattress and took that something downstairs that night later. I want to know how the police missed seeing the bedford cord on Saturday , then how and when did it finally find its way to the kitchen cupboard Sunday morning? Something was shifted around, maybe more than once during those 2 days.

Actually according to the testimony her drawers were searched that day, and under the bed, they felt around the head of the bed, and the drawers in Emma's desk were searched. Fleet also mentions searching a closet in Lizzie's room?

I would LOVE to think that Lizzie had found a way to wear that bloody skirt under that black lace dress she wore to the cemetery Saturday morning. The police would be madly searching the house while she was sitting right in it under their noses! Then burn it up first thing Sunday.

I think Lizzie was so familiar with that house she probably knew a million and one hiding places for that dress the police would never think to look in. Same goes for a gossamer. She could've hidden it anywhere. We may never know where she hid it.

That must have been Lizzie's "toilet room" a sort of closet with a curtain across it. There is no other.
I thought they only half-heartedly pulled out one or two top drawers in her room Thursday?

Lizzie was on the lounge in her room all the day not on her bed. She could have been hiding anything under her. It was the search Saturday where they looked all over her bed and lounge.
I always thought they had gained a suspicion of that lounge, after Thursday, the way Lizzie would not get up. They made a point to search it- too late!

I happen to think that Bridget would know what Lizzie was not wearing Thursday, rather than what she was wearing.

Here is a Fake Photo of the girls I made for The Hatchet, June/July 2004. Emma is wearing the raingear.
Thank you Susan for your picture, too!

"I think Lizzie was so familiar with that house she probably knew a million and one hiding places "

I agree! And if the cellar walls could talk we'd know plenty. There was a secret drawer in the bottom of the guestroom dresser- common knowledge - they were built in for slippers I think. The current dresser has one.

Great photo Kat. I think Lizzie may have been hiding something in that dress closet in the beginning. Miss Russell makes mention of Lizzie taking the key and going to look in that closet at least twice if I remember correctly. Emma testified Lizzie's was kept there. Where was Abby's at the time? Abby's would probably have been more easily wiped down, since the rubber was on the outside. It has always seemed to me that there was something in there Lizzie wanted to keep her eyes on. Maybe she kept checking in there to see if the police had discovered it? From the photo Susan posted it does seem that the gossamer would pretty much cover all of Lizzie if she had worn one and kept her protected from any spatter. But from there she could have moved it anywhere.

Ebay has a 1890's women's raincoat to check out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/VICTORIAN-C-1890-WO ... dZViewItem

Abby's may have been under the stairs in that deep sitting room closet with many hooks. Her shawl and bonnet and old coats were in there.

Harry, my uncle was color blind. He could not distingush green from red.
Of both colors he said they apeared to be a shade of gray...I' don't know if there is a deviation from that, or not...

Thank you, Ms. Jo, that's the kind of thing I meant. It's interesting that he would see both as shades of grey. That would indicate he was seeing more of an absence of color.

I have heard of the red/green combination before and if I remember correctly, many years ago when applying for my driver's license, color blindness was one of the questions asked. Don't know if it still is.

Thank you ladies for the images of the rainwear. They certainly would cover an attacker from shoulders to foot. They appear loose enough to provide for arm movement.

The ones shown in the photo Susan posted show the men's coats similar to the women's. Neither show any hood or covering for the head. Nor does the 1890 one on eBay. Of course everyone in that era wore a hat. It is very hard to find a photo of a person outside without a hat.

Some interesting data from the encyclopedia in view of the color BLUE

"More than 95 percent of all variations in human color vision involve the red and green receptors in men's eyes. It is very rare for anyone—male or female—to be "blind" to the blue end of the spectrum. Some 10 million American men—fully 7 percent of the male population—either cannot distinguish red from green, or see red and green differently from most people. This is the commonest form of color blindness, but it affects only .4 percent of women. The fact that color blindness is so much more prevalent among men implies that, like hemophilia, it is carried on the X chromosome, of which men have only one copy. (As in hemophilia, women are protected because they have two X chromosomes; a normal gene on one chromosome can often make up for a defective gene on the other.)"

Every year when I teach the genetics unit...I talk about colorblindness. Invariably, there is at least 1 or 2 boys who are at least somewhat
red-green colorblind. If they are willing, I let them take the "Ishihara" test. They really have fun with it. All the other kids think they are cool !

http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html





Tracy...

Shelley @ Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:09 am wrote:Abby's may have been under the stairs in that deep sitting room closet with many hooks. Her shawl and bonnet and old coats were in there.

Here is the testimony by Bridget at the Preliminary Hearing about a closet in the sitting room.
She does not specify to which closet she refers and we really don't know, because it is very possible the closet by the mantle was a real closet back then- at least a bit shallow tho.

It's likely Bridget does mean the closet under the stairs, because of the quantity of clothing she relates:

Q. Did you have a clothes closet in the kitchen?
A. No Sir.

Q. Were there not closets connected with any of the rooms down stairs?
A. There was one in the sitting room, I think.

Q. What was kept there?
A. I do not know what they kept; a basket with clothes in it.

Q. Mrs. Borden had her bonnet and shawl down stairs?
A. Yes Sir, she kept them in the closet in the sitting room; sometimes her common shawl was there.

Q. If she wanted to go out, she could go to the closet in the sitting room and get her bonnet and shawl, and go out without going up stairs?
A. Yes Sir.

Q. What else was kept there?
A. Some clothes belonging to Mr. Borden, I guess.

Q. This jacket he put on in the morning, was not a dressing gown, but a common cardigan jacket?
A. Yes Sir.

Page 62

Q. Where was that kept?
A. In the sitting room, as you go into the sitting room from the kitchen; there was a nail there.

Q. By the stove?
A. Yes Sir.

Q. In the sitting room closet, beside the bonnet and shawl, and the outside gear Mrs. Borden kept there, what clothing did Mr. Borden have there?
A. I used to see coats there sometimes, old coats.

I had looked for hoods and found these "garden hoods." A letter in the Knowlton Papers advised authorities that Lizzie wore a "hood." I couldn't imagine what they meant!

"A waterproof with its hood would have protected her dress fr. harm, but
one blot of blood was found on her 'the damning spot would not out'
one blot - how came it there..." etc.--HK232

Also, a "rubber cap or hood" was mentioned as being worn by the killer in the Trickey-McHenry story of Oct 10 in the paper.

I don't think tho, that this is what they meant?

If they wore tight-fitting dresses, it would not be possible to wear one dress over another. Changing dresses also took time, somebody said here. But a "wrapper" or robe could be quickly donned or discarded.

Nobody will ever know.

I have been rereading over the trial transcript in it's entirety because I believe one of the witnesses testified to something that I would like to post in answer to a question on one of the threads, I just don't know which witness. Frustrating. So I've been posting a lot of testimony lately because when as I reread over things different ideas occur to me.

I really didn't know where to post this, but thought this the most likely place. When Dr. Bowen testified that Lizzie's dress was a 'drab' color maybe he actually wasn't referring literally to the color drab. Maybe there was a bit of a misunderstanding about what he truly meant. Maybe he was referring to how dull and plain the dress was. Drab also means, dull, plain, not holding much color, uninteresting, etc. These are all definitions I have found for the word 'drab'. I know there are a few who take this testimony to believe he was saying Lizzie was literally wearing a dress that was the color in the shade of drab. I don't know if this has been discussed before, I apologize if it has been.


Trial testimony of Dr. Seabury Bowen page 310-311:

Q. Do you recall making this reply to the question I am about to read?

"Q. Do you recall how Lizzie was dressed that morning? A. It is pretty hard work for me. Probably if I could see a dress something like it I could I guess; it was a sort of drab, not much color to attract my attention,---a sort of morning calico dress, I should judge."

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What do you say as to the color?
A. That is very indefinite there.

Q. What do you say as to the drab?
A. I should say the color is very indefinite.

Q. I did not ask you to criticize your answer, sir?
A. I made the best answer at the time I could.

Q. Do you assent at the present time to the statement of the color of the dress?
A. With the modification I make now.

Q. What modification do you desire to make?
A. I don't remember distinctly anything about the color.

Q. Do you desire to say that the dress appeared to you to be a drab dress or not?
A. I merely mean to say that the dress is a common---

Q. Answer my question.
A. Wait ---

Q. No, answer my question and this is the question: Did it appear to you to be a drab colored dress?
A. It was an ordinary, unattractive, common dress that I did not notice specially.

Q. Will you answer my question?

MASON, C. J. Answer the question if you can; if you cannot, say so.

A. I don't think I can answer it better than I did. I don't know.

Q. I would like to try it once more, doctor. Did it appear to you to be a drab dress?
A. I did not pretend to describe a woman's dress and I do not intend to now.

Q. Did you intend to describe a woman's dress when you testified a few days after this at the inquest?
A. No, sir, I did not. I told my impression of the dress.

Q. Did you in point of fact say it was sort of drab, or "not much color to it to attract my attention,--- sort of a morning calico dress, I should judge." Did you say that?
A. I should judge I did.

Q. Do you desire to modify that at all?
A. Merely by saying that the drab, ---there being very many shades of drab to a woman's dress, I should judge.

Q. Would a faded light blue dress appear to be drab to you?

page 313

Q. (Exhibiting blue dress) Does this appear to you, doctor, to be a sort of drab, or not much color to it, sort of morning calico dress?


MR. ADAMS. Wait a minute, doctor, we object.

MASON, C. J. Excluded.

Q. Is that the dress she had on that morning?
A. I don't know, sir.

Main Entry: 4drab
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): drab·ber; drab·best
1 a : of the dull brown color of drab b : of the color drab
2 : characterized by dullness and monotony : CHEERLESS <a drab life>
- drab·ly adverb
- drab·ness noun

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
--------------------------------------------

drab 1 (drb) KEY

ADJECTIVE:
drab·ber , drab·best

Of a dull grayish to yellowish brown.
Of a light olive brown or khaki color.
Faded and dull in appearance.
Dull or commonplace in character; dreary: a drab personality. See Synonyms at dull.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... entry/drab
--------------------------------------------

drab

Pronunciation: (drab), [key]
—adj., drab•ber, drab•best,
—n.

—adj.
1. dull; cheerless; lacking in spirit, brightness, etc.
2. having the color drab.


http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/drab
----------------------------------------------

drab [ drab ]


adjective (comparative drab·ber, superlative drab·best)

Definition:

1. lacking color or brightness: uninteresting to look at because of a lack of color or brightness


2. boring: lacking interest, enthusiasm, or excitement


3. of pale grayish brown color: of a dull pale grayish brown color

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861606357/drab.html

This is an enlightening bit of work above- and yes, I believe you may be on to something. I always thought maybe Dr. Bowen might be colorblind or he meant the color drab which was actually a color said to be that of the Borden house- a sort of olive gray-brown shade which surprising there seemed to be a lot of in Victorian times. But I now too think he meant nondescript, unremarkable. Wow- good stuff!

Wasn't there another meaning for "drab" in Shakespeare's day?

Going by what testimony was posted I notice Dr. Bowen finally says:

"A. Merely by saying that the drab, ---there being very many shades of drab to a woman's dress, I should judge."-- seems like it answers the question?

Yes, I'm sure there are many shades to a woman's dress that could appear drab, common, or uninteresting.

It sounds to me like he does not want to be pinned down at all. Maybe he had a talk with his wife and they decided to remove or distance themselves as much as possible from the crimes - maybe he is being dense- maybe stubborn- maybe he just is not cooperating. These were somewhat his friends.

"...many shades of drab..." can be that "drab" is a color, of which he is aware, but won't designate which color of drab.
That's what it sounds like to me. If there is more testimony to support otherwise, we can look at that. I did preface my opinion as based on what was posted. Maybe there is more.

One thing I do not get: These people all live in a city famed all over the world for its' textiles. It has always seemed so odd to me that even most of the women seemed ignorant or not interested in the clothing or fabrics or dress goods of their neighbors.

Kat @ Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:44 am wrote:
"...many shades of drab..." can be that "drab" is a color, of which he is aware, but won't designate which color of drab.

I guess this is one example of how two people can read the same material and arrive at completely different conclusions. I still rather believe he had no idea what color the dress was because it really didn't stand out in any way, so that he did not remember it.

I live in a town which was very well known for it's production of steel for many years, up until recently when the company went down the toilet due to steel imports, but I couldn't tell you a thing about steel. I don't know many people here who could actually.

I read that not too long ago, and it almost sounded like Dr. Bowen was being badgered, I believe it was Knowlton doing the questioning, and he just wouldn't take the Doctors answer, so I think Dr. Bowen was getting a little perturbed, and basically refused to give an answer, that he didn't believe to be correct. I don't think most men are that observant of what women are wearing on a normal day, let alone on THAT day. Dr. Bowen was pretty upset, and shocked.

They used to talk about the color "olive drab". That sounds like it was not shiny or bright, dull appearing.
What does that old dictionary say?

shakiboo @ Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:53 pm wrote:I read that not too long ago, and it almost sounded like Dr. Bowen was being badgered, I believe it was Knowlton doing the questioning, and he just wouldn't take the Doctors answer, so I think Dr. Bowen was getting a little perturbed, and basically refused to give an answer, that he didn't believe to be correct. I don't think most men are that observant of what women are wearing on a normal day, let alone on THAT day. Dr. Bowen was pretty upset, and shocked.

Would that 'badgering' get sympathy from the jury?
Dr. Joseph Bell may have been the inspiration for Sherlock Holmes, and may still be true today, but who can tell what is uppermost on Dr Bowen's mind then?

Are you calling me an "old dictionary?"

Please be advised that I will not be looking up random words for you- sorry...