Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Do we have the 1880 address of the Cheethams? Although Tom Bowles was not boarding at Addie's on 90 Second, if he had made a home with the Cheethams, naturally Addie would have known the man who if the same man, would have then been 33 on the day of the murders.

One more thing about the City Directories. They do not list children nor wives if they don't have employment. For instance the 1892 Directory lists only Andrew at 92 Second St.

I don't quite understand the rules of who gets listed and who does not. It seems to have something to do with whether they were employed or not. They are useful for the information they DO contain but are by no means complete for everyone in Fall River.

Addie Cheetham could have very well been boarding at 90 Second and just not listed.

Addie, whose name I mistook for Annie, as I had read somewhere (and now I will have to bug Len )to recall just where-
was staying with, or visiting Mrs. Churchill that morning. Wow- what a hot little beehive that Churchill house was with that mob living there- and how lucky the murderer was to sneak in that side door without at least one pair of eyes next door seeing it!

Yes I was wondering about the context of this Addie Chetham?
There is reference post to a book:
One Fine Day in Old Fall River-- isn't that the beginning line in the "You Can't Chop Your Poppa Up In Massachusetts?"

What is this book, please?

PS: Missy, thank you so much for the census info.
Harry, thanks again for your expertise!

Yes, it is the first line of You Can't Chop Your Poppa Up- sorry, my mistake- I meant Yesterday in Old Fall River -A Lizzie Borden Companion by Paul Hoffman.

Oh good! You must have that dratted song playing over and over in your head!

Here is the Paul Dennis Hoffman citation:
Cheetham, Annie
Annie Cheetham was most likely the niece of Adelaide Churchill. Cheetham, who was unmarried, lived with Churchill in the Buffinton House next door to the Bordens at 90 Second Street. She claimed that at the time of the murder of Andrew Borden, she was seated in her kitchen window writing a letter. The window looked south, directly at the Borden house. Cheetham said she saw no one on the Borden property. She was never called upon to testify and probably made those statements while being interviewed by City Marshal Rufus B. Hilliard on the day the murders occured.

--He gives no source.

Every time I read that name Cheetham it makes me think of that old joke about the law firm with the name of Dewey, Cheetham and Howe (Do he cheat him and how).

I'm curious about Mrs. Churchill's rooming house, I think she said something about making up the beds for the tenants? But, did she cook for everyone that was living there or were they all responsible for getting their own meals?

[quote="Susan @ Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:29 am"]Every time I read that name Cheetham it makes me think of that old joke about the law firm with the name of Dewey, Cheetham and Howe (Do he cheat him and how)./quote]

It reminds me of something from my childhood. The small town I came from actually had a law firm with the names Low and Crooks. My cousin used to work for them and said they used to joke that they were looking for a third partner by the name of Down so they would be known as Low, Down and Crooks.

Here's a good idea of what happens at the house- from an article done back in 2002 when Martha McGinn was still owner. The reporter was a lovely man named Mike, with his girl Camille. Things have not changed much- there is such a sampling of society in who comes and why. I am amazed it is still on the web.
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/new ... 379838.htm

Susan @ Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:29 am wrote:Every time I read that name Cheetham it makes me think of that old joke about the law firm with the name of Dewey, Cheetham and Howe (Do We cheat 'em and how).

I'm curious about Mrs. Churchill's rooming house, I think she said something about making up the beds for the tenants? But, did she cook for everyone that was living there or were they all responsible for getting their own meals?

I understand that law firm name comes from a 3 Stooges comedy film.
Are they still being shown on TV? The last time I was on jury duty the waiting room had "Disorder in the Court". Don't remember much.

Shelley @ Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:30 pm wrote:Here's a good idea of what happens at the house- from an article done back in 2002 when Martha McGinn was still owner. The reporter was a lovely man named Mike, with his girl Camille. Things have not changed much- there is such a sampling of society in who comes and why. I am amazed it is still on the web.
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/new ... 379838.htm

EEEK! That's Shelley's body lying there!
Yikes!

Susan you read my mind! Ever since I saw that name I have been remembering that joke!
We used to play a board game about railroads and for some reason I equated it with one of those RR names in the game.

I had no Internet tonight late and so I primed the walls in my laundry room- and just finished. I was thinking of that *Do We Cheat "Em and How* joke then!

I forget whicfh thread it was on but, yes, someone standing in the fruit cellar has a great view of the front of the barn and upper window-but not in the laundry washroom. The backyard door enclosure blocks the view- I just took a photo to post later.

Thank You!

Mrs. Thomas Cheetam's view while writing her letter.

Shelley @ Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:56 am wrote:I forget whicfh thread it was on but, yes, someone standing in the fruit cellar has a great view of the front of the barn and upper window-but not in the laundry washroom. The backyard door enclosure blocks the view- I just took a photo to post later.

From my own and a co-worker's experience I know that a basement window offers an easy entry for a burglar. Surreptitious entry?

The house has a beautiful new web design if you have not seen it, have a look.

http://www.lizzie-borden.com/

RayS @ Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:08 am wrote:

Susan @ Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:29 am wrote:Every time I read that name Cheetham it makes me think of that old joke about the law firm with the name of Dewey, Cheetham and Howe (Do We cheat 'em and how).

I'm curious about Mrs. Churchill's rooming house, I think she said something about making up the beds for the tenants? But, did she cook for everyone that was living there or were they all responsible for getting their own meals?

I understand that law firm name comes from a 3 Stooges comedy film.
Are they still being shown on TV? The last time I was on jury duty the waiting room had "Disorder in the Court". Don't remember much.

It did. I don't remember which episode though.

-1bigsteve (o:

Nahhh it was a different one. Disorder In the Court was the one where the stooges were witnesses at a murder trial. Regard es` -

Judge: Take the stand.
Curly: [picks the chair up] Where'll I put it?
Judge: No, no, take the stand!
Curly: I got it! Now what'll I do with it?
Court clerk: [angrily sets it back down] SIDDOWN!
--------

Shelley @ Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:21 pm wrote:The house has a beautiful new web design if you have not seen it, have a look.

http://www.lizzie-borden.com/

Checked it out. Well done. Lizzie's eyes are scary!

Thanks Shelley.

Shelley @ Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:21 pm wrote:The house has a beautiful new web design if you have not seen it, have a look.

http://www.lizzie-borden.com/

I'm sorry, but the manipulated photo of Lizzie's eyes is a gross turn-off.

Ah well, one can please most of the people, most of the time.....

I have noticed in the police report her eyes are described as gray- they are the feature nearly all guests remark upon- and are truly mezmerizing- with or without the coloring added.

What a chilly day in Fall River, highs of 48 and windy! There is a bus tour in the house at the moment of 40 people, some from the Morse Society (maybe a few Uncle John relatives). After a monsoon went through last night, we had a deluge and wild winds. I confess to being a little nervous all alone in the house last night waiting for late check-ins, and after hearing a loud rapping from Lizzie's room, then the front door, I was afraid to go down the cellar! Then I realized the shutters were not locked down and felt like a ninny. Autumn is surely here, the maroon mums on Lizzie and Emma's grave are in full bloom and the other graves are fading . A large patch of grass in front of Lizzie's headstone is now packed down and nearly bare from all the feet which have stood at her grave lately.

This is the peak foliage week, but the wind has blown many leaves from the trees. We are having hot cider up in the loft as I am sewing some curtains for the kitchen. I have some photos to post later.

#1 in series 6 p.m. Friday evening with storm clouds rolling and the wind whipping in 45mph gusts and golden leaves flying through the air-

The gaslight by the front door lends a welcome warmth through the gloom-

For those who are into orbs- this one's for you!
#3 in series of storm photos

#4
The vintage parlor lamps pierce the murky darkness with reassuring light.

#5
The Kelly house even takes on a sinister air- and orbs.

#6 in series

Time to come in!

#7

Hot tea to ward off the chill- in the Cook Borden tea service.

#8
Soft glow from the parlor lamp , a vintage "piano lamp" once an oil lamp, with Gone With the Wind hand-painted globe shade. This one came from Richmond, Rhode Island.

#9
A slightly taller version, same vintage, with glorious hand-painted rose globe- The House almost did not get this one!

#10

Is it any wonder ladies looked better by oil lamp? The parlor without the overhead lights- a light level the Bordens would have lived with.

#11
A touch of autumnal display on the old sitting room mantel.

#12
The missing note has turned up on the mantel 114 years later.

#13

Parlor piano which is actually a little pump organ.

#14
Looks like the flats are still cold.

I have not been able to visit here for a while- but I plan to be back to the Forum soon!

These photos are utterly delightful and are the first things I've seen or read on here in days! It's like I'm starving for my Forum Friends- although I have very much enjoyed the work I've been doing on submissions to The Hatchet!

Thank You Very Much, Shelley, For Taking The Time And Effort To Show Us These Views!

Terrific lamps. They will add a great deal to the atmosphere.

Thanks again, Shelley, for sharing!

Hope Lizzie finishes those hankies soon. I know you do things slowly Lizzie, but jeesh, its been 114 years!

thanks Shelley!! I love the pictures you take!!! The only thing better would be being there myself taking them!

I hope you do get here in person- soon! And it is a real pleasure to be able to share photos and thoughts about the house and the case. For 5 years , before the house was open to the public, some of us used to stand across the street at the bus station, like kids with noses pressed to the window of a candy store, looking in- gazing at the house and trying to imagine August 4, 1892 and all that might have happened within the walls. I would never have believed all the events which would transpire in the future- all chance and luck, which would bring me to work here every week.

Saturday night four teens, maybe 17 or so, knocked at the door at 11 p.m.- they could see the lights on still. They had just come from the Asylum of Terror down the street and were knocking to ask about tours, shyly- afraid they were being a nuisance. I asked them in, they sat on the black sofa in wonderment that they were actually inside , at the scene of the crime. Without all the "ghosts", orbs, or paranormal stuff - just being inside this house, at the scene of such an infamous crime, a part of history, is story enough in itself. I have seen this reaction on countless faces over the years- young and old ones, and I am always grateful beyond measure to be a "gatekeeper" to open the door for so many to the study of this endlessly fascinating saga. Every weekend at 8 p.m., we sit anew in the parlor by the soft glow of the lamp, and travel back to the events leading up to that fateful day- and it never gets old for me, because there is always a fresh, eager face full of questions and ideas. And I expect there always will be.

Shelley, I really need to plan to spend a night on some weekend there when you are working. It sounds like it would be so much fun to sit and talk about the house and the case with you. I really love your photos of the house. It's great to see someone else's perspective and view of things. I was wondering whether the house is decorated for Christmas?

And what guest do when they spend more than one night at the house, what do they do with their things during the day while tours are going on? Are they supposed to pack it all up and put it in the closets or the car or what?

I would love to meet you! Just let me know when you are coming- even if it is during the week. For the hardcore Bordenites, I have a few special side trips. Yes, there are decorations for Christmas. One December 7th I got snowed in with 8 guests and had the Christmas of my life. As the snow piled higher and higher, we raided the cellar and attic for every bit of greenery, ribbon, and trim and decked the house out right down to velvet bows on the chandeliers. We baked gingerbread and cookies in the old stove, dressed up in 1892 clothing, had a snowball fight and built a "Lizzie Snowlady" -er.. yes, with hatchet and muffler. Somewhere I believe I have the photos. We sang carols, wore our jammies and popped corn and pressed out noses against the parlor windows- no cars in sight-just the gaslight streetlamp glowing through the falling flakes.

The next morning the guests let me sleep in- and when I raced downstairs they had made the jonnycakes, sausages, bacon and homefries, cocoa and scrambled eggs and hatchet cookies for ME. We sat talking for hours, took photos of ourselves in the snow, and nearly wept when the roads were passable again. I will never forget- we were all Borden family for 24 hours.

Guests usually pack up their luggage and we store it in the old dress closet (now a bathroom) or the gift shop. You MUST come for more than one night- and late fall and winter is a GREAT time to come to really experience the house.

I think Lizzie would have liked the lamps. She seems to enjoy this one in this fake photo I created several years ago. The globe looks similar.

Oooh- I love it- it does look like the parlor lamp. Must have been channeling Lizzie at the antique store!

No trip to the house would be complete without meeting 10 year jonnycake veteran Dave Quigley who has been aboard since day 1, and Ed Thibault whose steady girl has been Lizzie B for 4 decades. Ed does large bus tours and special events such as the many Red Hat Teas (the ladies just love Eddie)- and swings a mean second spatula with Dave on busy mornings. Ed's young grandaughter has just come aboard in housekeeping, so it is a family affair with wife Eleanor doing second shift during the week. On August 4th Ed can be found on the black sofa as Mr. Borden. We have convinced him to keep the beard year round.

Sign coming down the treacherous front stairs

The Witching Hour

Midnight from the barnloft

Was there a small sofa in Abby's dressing room?

Trial testimony of Dennis Desmond Jr. page 732:

Q. Very well. Now how thorough was your search in Mr. and Mrs. Borden's room?
A. I consider we gave it a thorough search.

Q. Pulled the beds to pieces?
A. Not exactly pulled them apart, but we gave them a thorough looking over.

Q. Well, you looked on top of the bed and underneath?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is that what you mean?
A. Turned up the matresses, &c.

Q. Well, you found there wasn't anything in between?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And the room where the sofa was ---Did you look in that?
A. Yes, sir.

page 734

Q. Were there any dresses in that room?
A. It seems to me there was, both ladies and gents clothes hanging up in that room covered with a sheet.

I had seen in testimony given by other witnesses that there was clothing covered with sheets in Abby's dressing room but this is the first reference I've seen to a sofa. Of course I'm not done rereading the trial either. But does anyone know of anymore information on this?