Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Kat, I found it. Trial volume 1, page 276:

Q. What part of the dining room did you sit?
A. I sat at the table.

Q. Which side?
A. The south side, towards Dr. Kelley's.

Q. You sat on the south side of the dining room?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And your back was towards the sitting room?
A. My back was towards the sitting room.

Page 277

Q. You sat on the side of the table?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Whose place was that, ordinarily?
A. Mr. Borden's.

Q. That is where Mr. Borden ordinarily sat, with his back to the sitting room wall?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And his face would be looking over towards Mrs. Churchill's?
A. Yes, sir.

If the table was kept set as a matter of decoration, it might make sense that all chairs had a place setting. Less than that might have seemed awkward. If the idea was more utilitarian in nature, then perhaps four places would be set and others added as needed. I doubt that Bridget would set herself a place at the table, the presence of an unused place setting would send an "I'm WAITING" message to the family as they ate their meal. If Bridget sat in Andrew's chair when she ate, she had to remove his dishes first, so she could bring her dishes in after doing that.

I have always wondered if Bridget took her plate into the empty diningroom and sat because Lizzie was sitting at the kitchen table drinking coffe and eating a cookie and a servant could hardly sit casually with the employers. And while we are at it- did you ever wonder just where it was that Lizzie forwarded those paper wrappers for Abby?
Lizzie and Emma both had little desks in their rooms- Lizzie's had a tall bookcase on top of hers which blocked the door into the guestroom. There was no desk in the sitting room or diningroom and we do not know if there was one in the parlor. Abby had a desk in her dressing room.

If Lizzie used her desk, then she would have had to have been upstairs longer that morning -not good for her story. I would bet she did it on the kitchen table. The diningroom table was set for lunch and her ironing board and flats and handkies were on the diningroom table. Pre-setting a table for lunch is an old-fashioned sort of Victorian thing. Both my great aunts and granny did that, turned down the cups and glasses so flies would not get in. I always thought it was silly but these old gals were homemakers- housekeeping was their big thing and they were pros at it and loved it. Wish I had the time- nobody does nowadays.

Our table was always pre-set for the number of people generally at lunch or dinner or breakfast, not the number of chairs and places. I can still hear Granddaddy call out "Fetch another place Della- Mr. Shockley is staying to dinner!"- which was actually what we call lunch now. He would sit in splendor while my Granny laid out heaping dishes of homemade jams and relishes, Maryland biscuits and platters of fried chicken (which she killed and plucked herself) corn on the cob, fried green tomatoes, mountains of whipped potatoes oozing a volcano of sweet butter, pickled beets, collard greens and an array of sweet potato, lemon meringue, chocolate cream, and sour cherry pies. Her cocoanut cake was one of the Seven Deadly Sins. All of this was washed down with glass pitchers of sweet tea- and yes- the womenfolk always cleared the table and did the dishes while the men sat and scratched on the porch and talked about Whitey Ford and Mickey Mantle.

I think Lizzie spent more time upstairs than she was willing to admit. I'm sure she was there when Bridget let Andrew in, if she had been in the kitchen she would have let Andrew in the side door and Bridget would have seen her when she came in from window washing. Lizzie might have been at her desk when Abby went in the guest bedroom.

Shelley, the meal you describe sounds wonderful! Lunch or dinner, the noonday meal, was the main meal on farms at one time, supper was lighter. Back when I was farming, I could get away with eating a lunch of that size. I remember the winter of '93-'94, severe cold and not much snow. I don't think the thermometer rose above zero in January that winter, and the ground was frozen to a depth of eight to ten feet in some locations. I couldn't stop losing weight that winter, no matter how much I ate!

Well, I lived with my grandparents in a big old Victorian house and Grandaddy had a chicken and egg farm on the Eastern Shore of Maryland near Salisbury (1950's) Granny also ran a little candy store where she sold her baked goods and jams and relishes when she was not helping Grandaddy sort eggs, kill chickens, pick in the fields, whatever was needed. She did her washing in rainwater in a galvanized tub with a washboard and mangle. hung clothes on a clothesline, made all her bread daily from scratch, took care of me, cooked three magnificent meals a day and made all of our clothes out of calico grain sacks on an old Singer treadle machine. Eventually we got a shower installed but I loved the tin bath in front of the old black woodstove in the kitchen. Granny, "Miz Della" could hitch up a horse and carriage and drive it, plow with any man and knew exactly what to give an invalid for any ache or pain. She and my Granddaddy (Capt.n' Harry) were a team and both pulled in the same direction. Yes, we ate a huge breakfast of scrapple, fresh eggs, bacon, biscuits and fried apples, red eye gravy and homefries, dined at dinner at noon like kings, and had a light supper and early bed.- Granddaddy would touch nothing "mixed up" like a casserole or spaghetti, but liked his meat, veg, and starch nicely separated- and plenty of it. I used to follow him and the mule plowing the fields - and he never stopped singing. Somewhere I think I may have a photo done with an old Brownie camera. Granny taught me to cook and sew by age 8- and I am glad she did- my mother can do neither.

Granddaddy was born in 1892, Granny in 1897- old folks were a team and stayed together thick and thin. I see Abby and Andrew that way.

Lots of fond memories, and you'll always have them! I remember Thanksgiving dinner cooked on a wood stove, nothing quite like it. Two of my fondest memories of farming were opening alfalfa bales in the barn and smelling June in January, and homemade bread baking in the kitchen.

Nothing like a woodstove. I cook on the one in the Borden House whenever I can, although it is now fitted out for gas. Granny used to make sweet potato cakes and drop them on the top of the woodstove to cook in various sizes like coins. A stack of those with butter and molasses was a real treat and we would pretend they were fifty cent pieces and silver dollars. Up until a few years ago, I had horses and goats in my barn-and I do miss that smell of alfalfa and sweet oat mix in the barrel. Well, shoot, Yooper! You have to 'come East, Honey and I will whomp you up some vittles in Old Fall River. Of course these Yankees cook a little differently but how about some fried codcakes, homemade baked beans , cranberry relish and a "lobsta" bisque and blueberry pie? Jonnycakes are an acquired taste. Rhode Island clear broth clam chowdah hits the spot too.

You talked me into it, Shelley! That invitation makes a visit to the Borden house an absolute must!

I remember silver dollar sized pancakes cooked on the wood stove as a kid. Some friends had a four square Victorian house on the shore of Lake Superior which was used for vacations. It had a wood stove in the kitchen and a foot-pump organ in the living room. They made those pancakes for my brother and I whenever we stayed with them!

Shelley @ Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:05 pm wrote:Well, I lived with my grandparents in a big old Victorian house and Grandaddy had a chicken and egg farm on the Eastern Shore of Maryland near Salisbury (1950's) Granny also ran a little candy store where she sold her baked goods and jams and relishes when she was not helping Grandaddy sort eggs, kill chickens, pick in the fields, whatever was needed. She did her washing in rainwater in a galvanized tub with a washboard and mangle. hung clothes on a clothesline, made all her bread daily from scratch, took care of me, cooked three magnificent meals a day and made all of our clothes out of calico grain sacks on an old Singer treadle machine. Eventually we got a shower installed but I loved the tin bath in front of the old black woodstove in the kitchen. Granny, "Miz Della" could hitch up a horse and carriage and drive it, plow with any man and knew exactly what to give an invalid for any ache or pain. She and my Granddaddy (Capt.n' Harry) were a team and both pulled in the same direction. Yes, we ate a huge breakfast of scrapple, fresh eggs, bacon, biscuits and fried apples, red eye gravy and homefries, dined at dinner at noon like kings, and had a light supper and early bed.- Granddaddy would touch nothing "mixed up" like a casserole or spaghetti, but liked his meat, veg, and starch nicely separated- and plenty of it. I used to follow him and the mule plowing the fields - and he never stopped singing. Somewhere I think I may have a photo done with an old Brownie camera. Granny taught me to cook and sew by age 8- and I am glad she did- my mother can do neither.

Granddaddy was born in 1892, Granny in 1897- old folks were a team and stayed together thick and thin. I see Abby and Andrew that way.

I still live about an hour from Salisbury, MD on the Eastern Shore, and I still eat the fresh scrapple and Maryland biscuits. Nothing like it.

Hey! We probably are kin Miss Sally. My parents now live in Vienna, just between Salisbury and Cambridge. Our farm was in Mardela Springs right on old Route 50 on the way to Ocean City. Don't forget those crabcakes and oyster fritters from the Sharptown carnival! And there is nothing like a Maryland tomato warm from the field -and I could write an Ode to the Canteloupes from the Shore.Yum- I think I need to write a cookbook.

Shelley @ Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:17 pm wrote:Hey! We probably are kin Miss Sally. My parents now live in Vienna, just between Salisbury and Cambridge. Our farm was in Mardela Springs. Don't forget those crabcakes and oyster fritters from the Sharptown carnival! Yum- I think I need to write a cookbook.

I used to go the Sharptown Carnival all the time. Don't forget the Hebron carnival, too. The used to have great Funnel Cakes. Probably still do. I always make up crabcakes in the summer from the meat left over from picking out a bushel of crabs. Plus make up a gallon of vegetable crab soup.

I know Vienna well, and grew up in Cambridge.

Shelley @ Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:17 pm wrote:Hey! We probably are kin Miss Sally. My parents now live in Vienna, just between Salisbury and Cambridge. Our farm was in Mardela Springs right on old Route 50 on the way to Ocean City. Don't forget those crabcakes and oyster fritters from the Sharptown carnival! And there is nothing like a Maryland tomato warm from the field -and I could write an Ode to the Canteloupes from the Shore.Yum- I think I need to write a cookbook.

I probably passed your family farm a lot...we used to take old Route 50 to Ocean City. I vividly remember someone had a mailbox done up like a striped cat, with a tail.

Thank you Susan for the testimony about where Bridget would sit! I liked that she sat in Andrew's place. I wonder why? Maybe she just liked the view out the window?

I'm not too worried about how Bridget set her place- no big deal- just a curiosity.

When Bridget ate breakfast at the table tho, Lizzie was not downstairs yet so there would not be a conflict of them both eating in the kitchen.

Do we know when Bridget ate her breakfast? I was looking for some testimony as to the time. It was surely after she cleared off all the dishes, and probably washed them up. If John got up and left to go out around 8:45- was that from the diningroom table or the sitting room? If it were from the diningroom table, Bridget would not have had much time to clear up and eat. I imagine whatever she ate was what she threw up a little after nine in the back yard. The period from 8:45 until 9:15 is the period of time I would really like to see a thorough walk through in real time in that house. Everyone was coming and going up and down and in and out!

When you find the timing in testimony please let us know- thanks!
Excuse me- I have to go make pancakes! Really!

It occured to me suddenly that maybe Bridget sat down in the diningroom to eat because the fire in the stove was still pretty hot and it may have been very warm in the kitchen. To heat mutton broth and fry up jonnycakes the fire would have had to have been crackling. As the table was in front of the stove. I always thought it odd that Lizzie said she camped out in front of that stove that morning reading a magazine. If it was warm enough to keep the sitting room door closed to keep out the heat- who in their right mind would want to pull up a chair and read a magazine in front of the stove on August 4th? But then a lot of things Lizzie said she did don't make much sense. I would probably have sat in the sitting room to read- or better yet, under that great arbor out in the back yard.

I would think, per timing involved, that Bridget ate in the dining room, somewhere between 7:20 AM and 8:45 AM when Unlce John left. Lizzie was not down until he left- say 8:55 AM. That's plenty of time for Bridget to eat before Lizzie ate in the kitchen. Recall she supposedly went to the cellar first too?
By that time, c. 9 AM, Bridget was outside throwing up.