Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Partial quote:

Shelley @ Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:22 am wrote:I am also not positive if the parlor was locked or not that day. Does anyone know for sure?

I don't know if the doors to the parlor were locked or not but they were closed. At least according to Bridget's trial testimony (p281). She being questioned about her opening the door for Mr. Borden:

"Q. Now, you say that you unlocked the bolts?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You didn't open the parlor door, did you?
A. The parlor door?
Q. Yes.
A. No, sir. I didn't have nothing to do with it.
Q. You don't know anything about it?
A. No, sir, I don't...
Q. Whether there was anybody in there or not?
A. No, sir, I didn't.
Q. The door from the sitting-room into the parlor was closed, wasn't it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. All the time the door from the hall into the parlor was closed?
A. Yes, sir."

The door from the sitting room was also blood spattered so it must have been closed, or mostly closed, at the time of Andrew's killing.

So, if Bridget knew nothing of the condition of the parlor door locks, there was no reason to not try the parlor doors. Mrs. Churchill would certainly be unaware of whether or not they were locked.

I've always been curious as to why Bridget didn't bother to wash the insides of the parlour windows.

Me too- they were right on the street and all could see them. She did not wash the kitchen windows since they were in back and nobody could see- but one would really think she might have made an effort in the best room the family possessed and the "company room". All very strange. Odd to wash them outside but not inside- this is the only room where that applied. Curious. How I wish I knew if the police had a good look at ALL those windows. I have never been satisfied where Lizzie addressed those wrappers for Abby. I believe there was a desk in the parlor. Surely Andrew needed a desk downstairs as he did business in that room. It is not like nowadays where you just whip out a ballpoint pen to sign something and I cannot feature Lizzie addressing wrappers in front of the stove. Maybe she was in the parlor that morning - but since the parlor was under the guestroom she preferred not to let that be known. The parlor was also a direct shot into the sitting room- another reason for not being in it!

I had thought that maybe Bridget planned to wash the parlor windows after lunch, but didn't she put her cleaning things away? The only other possibility, though not very likely, is that the windows did not need washing if the room wasn't used since the last washing. Maybe she was distracted from her window washing by a curious chopping sound from the sitting room and her window washing implements found another use!

I get the impression that Bridget was supposed to steer clear of the parlor, much like all the bedrooms of the Borden house. From the trial volume 1, Bridget on the stand, page 197:

Q. Can you tell who took charge of the parlor sweeping, dusting and cleaning of it?
A. Miss Lizzie in the summer.

Q. Did you have anything to do with it?
A. No, sir.

Page 233

Q. I may ask you if you washed the inside of the parlor windows?
A. No, sir.

Q. You did not go into the parlor, as I understand it?
A. No, sir, I did not.

Page 265

Q. You didn't have anything to do with the parlor at all?
A. No, sir.

Page 266

Q. And nothing to do with the spare room above stairs?
A. No, sir.

Q. Or the rooms of Miss Lizzie or Miss Emma>
A. No, sir.

Q. And you didn't take care of Mr. and Mrs. Borden's room?
A. No, sir.

Q. And you had no charge at all, no care of the front part of the house?
A. No, sir.

Q. And seldom went in there?
A. No, sir; I had no business there.

Q. And had no work to do there. If Mr. and Mrs. Borden were in the house, and the door bell rang, they attended, one of them, to the door, you did not go?
A. Yes, sir.


I recall reading an article that at the time of the Borden murders Irish servant girls were seen as clumsy, horsey girls with no finesse. They couldn't be trusted to do dainty work only the heavy, labor intensive jobs. I don't know if the Bordens viewed Bridget in this light or not, but, her duties seem very specific as to what she was to do and not to do in the house.

Yes I agree with you on all the points above. There were parlor maids and maids of all work. Parlor maids were usually dainty, neat and pretty, more intelligent and had a more refined accent as they would often be the one to show in distinguished guests and give a good impression for the family and house. Poor old Bridget falls into the "grunt work" catagory. Her apron would not have been lace-edged cambric but probably unbleached muslin! The entryway, front hall and all its protocol is admirably described in a fabulous book by Ken Ames called Death in the Diningroom which explains all about Victorian house structure, its function and symbolism.

Since Lizzie tells us all the rooms she did go into that morning and the parlour is not one of them, why did she ask Bridget to shut the blinds?
And if she did ask Bridget that, did Bridget do it?
And did Lizzie mean outside or inside?

59(16) Inquest

Q. Did you say anything to Maggie?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you say anything about washing the windows?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you speak to her?
A. I think I told her I did not want any breakfast.
Q. You do not remember of talking about washing the windows?
A. I don't remember whether I did or not; I don't remember it. Yes, I remember; yes, I asked her to shut the parlor blinds when she got through, because the sun was so hot.

Hi Kat! I think that Lizzie meant for Bridget to shut the outside shutters (blinds). According to Bridget there are curtains in the parlor windows, no blinds (shutters), so, Lizzie must be speaking about the outdoor window blinds. Bridget's testimony, trial volume 1, page 230:

Q. Had you been into the parlor to do anything that morning?
A. No, sir.

Q. Were the blinds of the parlor open or closed?
A. Closed.

Q. To wash them of course you had to open the blinds?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were the shutters in the parlor open or closed?
A. There was curtains for the inside of the parlor.

Q. And these curtains, were how?
A. I don't remember how they were.

Q. You don't remember whether the curtains were up or down?
A. No, sir, I do not.

Harry @ Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:12 am wrote:Partial quote:

Shelley @ Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:22 am wrote:I am also not positive if the parlor was locked or not that day. Does anyone know for sure?

I don't know if the doors to the parlor were locked or not but they were closed. At least according to Bridget's trial testimony (p281). She being questioned about her opening the door for Mr. Borden:

"Q. Now, you say that you unlocked the bolts?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You didn't open the parlor door, did you?
A. The parlor door?
Q. Yes.
A. No, sir. I didn't have nothing to do with it.
Q. You don't know anything about it?
A. No, sir, I don't...
Q. Whether there was anybody in there or not?
A. No, sir, I didn't.
Q. The door from the sitting-room into the parlor was closed, wasn't it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. All the time the door from the hall into the parlor was closed?
A. Yes, sir."

The door from the sitting room was also blood spattered so it must have been closed, or mostly closed, at the time of Andrew's killing.

I'm a little confused. In the house. the room that Andrew was killed is refered to as the parlor? The room on the left as you enter the house that is the one referred to as the sitting room? It says the door from the sitting room into the parlor. But I thought the only way into the parlor (if I'm thinking correctly) was the hallway; through the dinning room or through the kitchen. So which door was spattered with blood?

Here is a plan of the first floor:



The room to the left when you first enter from the front door in the parlor.

#1 is the door from the sitting room (where Andrew was killed) to the parlor. It was this door that Emma removed the blood spatter.

#2 is the door from the dining room to the sitting room. Some believe the killer struck from behind this door.

#3 is the door from the front hall to the parlor. Bridget testified that doors #1 and #3 were closed that morning.

#4 is the door from the front hall to the sitting room.

#5 is the door to a closet (closet not shown) that runs underneath the front stairs.

#6 is the door to the small closet at the foot of the stairs.

Some believe the killer may have hidden between murders in #5 or #6

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Harry. This helps, alot. I always thought it was door #2 that had the blood on it.

Hiding in #5 is a piece of cake, even full of coats and hats- but hiding in #6 would be a neat trick. With a carpet sweeper and 2 table leaves, I lasted just about 45 seconds in that shallow closet at the front entrance.

Susan @ Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:03 pm wrote:I get the impression that Bridget was supposed to steer clear of the parlor, much like all the bedrooms of the Borden house. From the trial volume 1, Bridget on the stand, page 197:

Q. Can you tell who took charge of the parlor sweeping, dusting and cleaning of it?
A. Miss Lizzie in the summer.

Q. Did you have anything to do with it?
A. No, sir.

Page 233

Q. I may ask you if you washed the inside of the parlor windows?
A. No, sir.

Q. You did not go into the parlor, as I understand it?
A. No, sir, I did not.

Page 265

Q. You didn't have anything to do with the parlor at all?
A. No, sir.

Thanks, Susan!

You know, the other thing that I was thinking about was why Bridget didn't scream too when she saw the body of Mr. Borden,

I think the first opportunity for Bridget to have seen Andrew was on her way up to or down from finding Abby. Lizzie prevented her from going in the sitting room before sending her for Dr. Bowen and Alice Russell. By then, she had been forewarned.

By that time Andrew was under the sheet. Still- a grisly sight.

Thank you so much Harry for that outline. I printed it out & I'm looking at it, and I got mixed up on the doors. I was just there and I could have sworn that there was a door between the dining room & parlor. Of course I had my names backwards, I guess you would say that was a formal "front" parlor. If the killer stood & killed Andrew near door #2, how did he get there? The only way they would have been able to get there & not be seen would be from the back door, to kitchen then through the dining room. The person had to come through the back door, or hid out earlier. Or slipped in by the outside cellar door then upstairs to the kitchen & so on.... So it was door #1 that was cleaned from blood spatter. It is just so different to see all the rooms connected the way they are without even a small hallway. Thank again for your help

Assuming Bridget's window washing chore did not ordinarily include the parlor windows, it must have fallen to someone else to wash them. If Bridget put her window washing implements away when she was done, does it imply her knowledge that the parlor windows would not be washed anytime soon? It would certainly imply that the chore did not fall to Lizzie, she would have left them out for her, Lizzie was clearly home at the time. Why would she not leave them out for Abby?