Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Lizzie asked Bridget to go upstairs after the sheets thing, saying "Maggie, I am almost positive I heard her coming in. Won't you go upstairs and see? " (The inference here is that Lizzie apparently heard Abby come in through the (locked) front door and up the front stairs, what for, heaven knows!) I believe, of course, Lizzie knew exactly where Abby was and wanted somebody else to find her.
Bridget's reply was "I am not going upstairs alone".

"Bridget's testimony (at the trial) was 'I had been upstairs already after sheets for Dr Bowen. He wanted A sheet and I asked him to get the keys in the sitting room and Mrs Churchill and I went up to Mrs Borden's room and she' (Mrs Churchill) 'got two sheets, I guess'.

So it appears that Mrs Churchill was the one who grabbed two sheets, probably scarcely knowing what she was doing. The back of the house had, as you say, been already visited by the two women, but it wasn't the back of the house Lizzie wanted people to venture up to.

Curryong wrote:...
The back of the house had, as you say, been already visited by the two women, but it wasn't the back of the house Lizzie wanted people to venture up to.

Debbiediablo, Irina and Curryong, today I decided to have a look in the forum and have read under this thread your posts concerning the sheet story and Lizzie's "biggest lie" - as I said in my thread "Lizzie's biggest lie - part I".

As you all three observed correctly: "The back of the house had, as you say, been already visited by the two women (Bridget and Mrs. Churchill)." They returned from the back upstairs only with the two sheets, without having found anyone (alive or dead) there. So Lizzie, IF innocent, might have known from that moment, together and at the same time with all other persons present in the house, that Abby (alive or dead) was not in the back upstairs. But being anxious about the safety of Abby and wishing others to look for her, Lizzie --- who even didn't know if Abby had gone out, if yes, if she had returned while she was in the barn, or if Abby never left the house, --- lied, I am almost positive, etc. etc...

Lizzie, certainly, could have been guilty. But Curryong, I don't understand why, according to the evidence under discussion here, you said that you "believe, of course, Lizzie knew exactly where Abby was and wanted somebody else to find her". In my modest opinion, it could be possible that Lizzie, being innocent, only knew where Abby wasn't (she wasn't on the ground floor and she wasn't on the back upstairs), as all others knew such a thing after the two women's return from the back upstairs only with the two sheets in hands.

What I am saying here is the essential of what I wished to say in the thread "Lizzie's biggest lie - part II" (not written yet).

Ah, Franz, Lizzie knew exactly where Abby was. She was lying on the guest room carpet between the bed and the dressing table, where Lizzie had left her when she killed her!

Curryong wrote:Ah, Franz, Lizzie knew exactly where Abby was. She was lying on the guest room carpet between the bed and the dressing table, where Lizzie had left her when she killed her!

Curryong, in my opinion, from the evidence we couldn't conclude as a fact that Lizzie knew exactly where Abby was. You believe that it was what happened because you believe --- with your reasons --- that Lizzie was guilty. Could I say so?

Of course you can, Franz, but I'm afraid we are as much fixed in our differing opinions of Lizzie as we were when I first joined this Forum at the beginning of this year!

I agree with Curryong; Lizzie knew exactly where Abby was.

Franz, when did Lizzie hear Abby come in? Before Andrew came home? If so, then why didn't she call out to Abby instead of Bridget upon 'finding' her father dead? Or call out to both Abby and Bridget? How did she know Bridget was still alive? How did she know Bridget wasn't the killer? Or did she hear Abby come in during the time there were several other people present in the house? If so, then why didn’t anyone else hear Abby come in? Or did she hear Abby come in while she was in the barn? If so, then why didn’t she hear her father being hacked to death? Furthermore, if Lizzie didn't know if Abby had gone out, then how could she have heard her come in? Obviously, Lizzie did NOT hear Abby come in, because Abby was dead!

Lizzie was not as ‘innocent’ as you believe her to be. She was guilty of giving false and misleading information, which is an obstruction of justice. According to the Webster’s New World Law Dictionary, the legal definition for obstruction of justice is: Delaying or impeding the timely and orderly administration of the legal system in some way, such as by giving false or misleading information, withholding information from legal authorities, or attempting to influence a witness or a juror. A criminal act in most jurisdictions. (underlining is mine.)

http://www.yourdictionary.com/obstruction-of-justice

twinsrwe wrote:... Franz, when did Lizzie hear Abby come in? Before Andrew came home? ...Obviously, Lizzie did NOT hear Abby come in, because Abby was dead! ...

Yes, twinsrwe, we don't need to discuss when Lizzie heard Abby come in, because it was not possibile: Abby was dead. Innocent or guilty, Lizzie obviously lied.

I agree, there is no need to discuss when Lizzie supposedly heard Abby come in. However, I was hoping you would comment on my statement regarding Lizzie's guilt of obstructing justice. What are your thoughts?

twinsrwe wrote:I agree, there is no need to discuss when Lizzie supposedly heard Abby come in. However, I was hoping you would comment on my statement regarding Lizzie's guilt of obstructing justice. What are your thoughts?

obstructing justice...eh.... let me see...