Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Here's another minor reference to dear Lizzie. People apparently send in stills from the SciFi TV channel's shows and advertisements and add (hopefully) amusing captions. For the bored only. The Lizzie reference is in the 4th row down.

NOTE: Some of the captions are on the raunchy side so if you are offended by things of that type go no further.

http://www.captiongallery.com/best01_9.html

Universal has announced that they'll release the first season of "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" on DVD for the holidays. Presumably, "The Older Sister" will be part of that collection - and, presumably, it'll be uncut, with the original ending.

Heh! Heh! Heh!

You must really trek far afield to unearth these rare gems for our viewing pleasure!

Thank you, Harry.

Thanks for the laugh, Harry, that was cute.

Thank you too, Bob, I've never seen that episode, now it looks like I'll finally get my chance!

Last week brought us a long-awaited DVD of the legendary cult-indie horror film LEMORA - A CHILD'S TALE OF THE SUPERNATURAL, lensed in 1973. Nothwithstanding the film is set in the late '20's, early '30's, the forest lair of the title character boasts a lot of lovely old furniture, including a bureau quite like that in the Borden guest room. There are also a few old sofas one could easily see Andrew relaxing upon.

Additionally, the mysterious Lemora herslf wears black Victorian finery, and on the commentary track, after the actress Lesley Gilb spoke about how hot that outfit was to wear during an August shoot in California, the writer/director Richard Blackthorn jumped in with "We should've shot the Lizzie Borden story back-to-back!" He recalled that August was the month of the murders, and that anyone wearing that much clothing in that kind of stifling weather would be in a murderous mood anyway!

Had to share that with you!

It sounds like one of those interesting, obscure movies I would enjoy. Thanks for sharing, Bob, I never would have known this one was out there.

Thank YOU, Susan, for posting that cap. Actually, do you see the picture frame to the left of the actress, like some that were in the Borden house at the time of the murders, and of the type Len found for his restorations?

Kewl!

You're welcome, Bob! I like the dark, ominous look of the screen shots I saw, including the Victorian decor, like those picture frames. The actress in that shot reminds of Bridget for some reason, I can almost hear her Brogue.

Yes! Thanks for the cool picture!
(As Nic would say "Coolbeans!")

Here's one of those frames:

THE SENTINEL is a schlocky but scary horror flick from the late seventies dealing with the portal to Hell, which is located in a fabulous Brooklyn Heights brownstone.

SPOILER ALERT!
In one scene, the neurotic model who lives in said building discovers the animated corpse of her father roaming about upstairs in the middle of the night. She arms herself with a butcher knife and, when suddenly confronted by the zombie, she slices through one of his eyes, and then severs the tip of his nose.

Sound familiar, in a grisly kind of way?

I remember that movie! It has some pretty well known actors and actresses in it despite the shlockiness. Yes, that scene with the girl and her father is reminicent of Lizzie and Andrew, I wonder if Lizzie was as freaked out while whacking dear ol' dad?

Thanks for the Lemora info, Bob and for the pics, Susan and Kat. Looks very fun.

Here's a true crime film recommendation: Heavenly Creatures, directed by Peter Jackson. A gorgeous and disturbing story of matricide by teenage girls in New Zealand. There is a terrific website for film and case. The film is on DVD and has been shown on IFC and True. This is an absolute must see!

--Lyddie

Thanks for the tip, Lyddie.

Susan All I see is an empty square box...

Lyddie, I saw that movie, it was disturbing, but good! Kate Winslet plays one of the teenage girls in it. I always thought if they did another movie about Lizzie, she'd be perfect to play the part.


Hmmm, Kat, let me see if I can post the pic again, don't know why it didn't show up, looks like Andrew on the sofa.

EEEK!

That could be Andrew by the 11th when they took his head!

I have found some mentions of Lizzie in what I guess could be termed pop culture. The sources will not be named to protect the ignorent.

-It was already over 100 degrees when the Borden family sat down to breakfast.

-After Lizzie was acquited she remained in the (2nd Street) house until her death. At this time the house was converted to a bed and breakfast.

-Lizzie was such a well known kleptomaniac that storeowners ignored her thefts and sent large bills to Andrew, who paid them on a regular basis so that Lizzie would not get into trouble.

-Lizzie admitted in writing to being a murderer to avoid being prosecuted (for petty theft).

-Emma died in 1827.

-Lizzie lived in Maplecroft until her death in 1937.

-Lizzie had bars placed on every window of Maplecroft and they can be seen in photographs taken of the house after lizzie moved in.

-The maid was named Lizzie Corrigan.

-Bridget moved to Montana where she called for a close friend when she was on her deathbed in order to clear her conscience. When the friend arrived she told this person that she had always liked lizzie.

-Lizzie murdered her parents because she was a lesbian.

Gary

EEEK!

I know, gruesome, isn't it? I almost want to watch the Sentinel again just to see that scene and imagine that its a hatchet doing the cutting instead of a butcher's knife. The cuts are pretty similar.

One of those girls, after serving a term in prison for the murder, now goes by the name of Anne Perry and writes Victorian murder mysteries.

Here's another reference to Lizzie. One of the co-owners (now deceased) was born in Fall River and named his sailboat after our Lizzie.

http://home.earthlink.net/~arthurengel/lb/

I popped THE SENTINEL into the DVD player last night to watch the "murder" scene I wrote about above, and damn if the furniture in both the heroine's apartment, and the deserted place upstairs in which she meets her father's corpse didn't include big-ass old wooden beds just like the one in the Borden guest room.

There was even an an old sofa with a print hung directly over it in the empty apartment - ok, that's not so odd. But in the context, it was kind of creepy and neat!

I'm going to try to contact the make-up man, Dick Smith. I met him some years ago at a horror convention, and if he didn't knowingly base the father's wounds on the Andrew Borden murder, I'm sure he'd get a kick out of knowing how close it was in execution (ha!).

ADDENDUM: I've written to him - we'll see....

Thanks, Bob, wow, Dick Smith, how cool! Wouldn't that be something if he had based the wounds on Andrew? Please, keep us posted!


I just found this comic book drawing of the Borden case that someone had sent to me, I don't know where they got it, just that its in Italian and its too fuzzy to make out the words. Anyhoo, here it is:

...on my office message system this morning was a call for me from DICK SMITH. Here is what he said, concerning that murder in THE SENTINEL:

"This is Dick Smith, calling Bob Gutowski regarding his inquiry about THE SENTINEL, and just, uh, Bob, interesting thought, but, no, I had no idea about the likeness to the, uh, Lizzie Borden situation. Uh, that was all done, more or less, in keeping with what the scriptwriter wrote. Maybe he had some knowledge of that. Uhh, but it was, I think, basically the director simply said "Well, let's do this; you know, gouge out the eye and then cut off the nose," and so forth, and so forth - and, of course, do the stabbing of the chest. And that gory stuff was his idea. So, I hope that is enough information for you, if not, if at (phone number). 'Bye!"

Wasn't that nice? Kind of like getting a phone call from God...well, to me, anyway.

Cool, thanks for sharing that, Bob. Interesting if the director had no knowledge of the Borden case and had the father's corpse hacked up like that. Maybe he was subconciously motivated?

Thanks Bob!
That is cool!

Susan, the Italian cartoon I had seen on a Google search a while ago.
Notice Abby's body is backward? Her head is sticking out at the foot of the bed.
I wonder what the captions say? Can you imagine? !
Hey, wait! You recently had a crash course in Italian didn't you?

Kat, do you remember what site it was from? The pic might be clearer on the site itself and then we could at least see all of the words. I picked up some Italian, but, not enough to figure all that out. If I could write it all down, I might be able to get my sweetie's friend to translate the whole thing for us.

Oh yea. Here's the recipe for finding that illustrated booklet:

Take off about 4 hours from work.
Google "Lizzie Borden."
Work thru the list one by one up to 11,000 items.
(Well, it may be more by now...)

Actually, I did used to keep track of the page number on Google where things were that interested me but that order changes every day now I guess...


Sorry.
Thanks for offering!

Ah, I found it doing a Google image search, took a few minutes. Alas, the pic is small on the page and I still can't see the wording. Heres the link if anyone's interested.

http://www.zaffoni.it/Pag/f5.html

Can you translate the lead-in?
"Lizzie Borden,
un intrigante giallo (vero) ottocentesco.
Dieci tavole. Nove finite.
La decima mi sono stufato."


Thanks for finding that.

Well, for what its worth, heres what it says in English:

Lizzie Borden,
A yellow intriguer (true) nineteenth-century.
Ten tables. Nine ended.
The tenth one they are stew.

I'll have to ask Roberto what a yellow intriguer is, there must be an English word that approximates what it means. I'm thinking with the yellow that its like yellow journalism, so maybe its like a bad fascination from the nineteenth-century?

"Giallo" is yellow, of course, but in Italy it does refer to a whole genre of grisly, gory thrillers, like the motion pictures of Dario Argento (whom I met at the Waldorf years ago) and Mario Bava.

I spoke in depth to Dick Smith later that day, as I went home early with a bad stomach. I called him, and we chatted for about 15 minutes and, let me tell you, he is a peach!

Ah! Thank you, Bob! It makes even more sense with your defintion, it probably would have been abit before I could get it translated firsthand by a friend of ours from Italy.

So, did you talk shop with Dick Smith? Go over Lizzie at all?

...we did talk shop, and he marvelled that I recalled meeting him - he's so modest, it's almost as though he wouldn't think that had been a big day for me!

He really couldn't vouch for the writer or the director being steeped in the Borden case; the name never came up when they were shooting, anyway.

We spoke about an effects shot he cobbled together for GHOST STORY, and how he feels that the movie of THE HUNGER goes to hell in the last act. He also remarked on how the business has changed, with the various make-up artists having to zealously guard their secrets, since make-up has become a multi-million dollar industry, unlike the old days.

I thanked him for his (famous) accessibility, and I told him how I'd worn out my first copy of the FAMOUS MONSTERS OF FILMLAND MAKE-UP GUIDE he'd written in the late '60's. I told him I had done one of the make-ups from that guide, the skull, using cut-out styrofoam instead of wax for the teeth.

I got the same kind of high I felt when I got to go through the Borden house with Len a few years ago.

Oooo, sounds like you had a great chat with Mr. Smith! Which was the cobbled together effects shot in Ghost Story? Which part in The Hunger was it that he particularly felt made it go to hell?

first of all, i want to thank dick smith for his beginnings at dark shadows. never met him. met barnabas once, though, here at atlanta, during his show where he did readings - -that would be jonathan frid.

dario argento -- i'm a fan. what is he up to now? last film i saw was sleepless. (his work needs music) i know his daughter is one of the most beautiful women God ever put breath in! Asa is the name? i'm thinking mostly about his version of phantom of the opera in regard to her.

i finally saw "beautiful creatures" -- i liked it. now i remember another i want to see again called "swoon" -- anyway, based on leopold and loeb. i'll have to order it, i will. i saw a part of it in early 90s. in a way very similar in theme to "beautiful creatures."

anyway, fun topic here.............after finally putting V lincoln to bed after wrestling with her. i finally got done with the old girl. but hard to get info on her on internet. i did more or less find out that she has some of her papers at johns hopkins, but i can't access them. then i remember that old fashioned thing called a library, which i'm going to call. it would be nice to have some simple bio of lincoln, wouldn't it?

have a good night, all!
Eugene

I Loved The Hunger
I Loved The Hunger
I LOved The Hunger
I Loved The Hunger
I Loved The Hunger
I Loved The Hunger
I Loved The Hunger
I Loved The Hunger

THE HUNGER comes out on DVD on 10/5, my dears! Dick Smith likes it up until the (SPOILER) attic full o' undead lovers and pigeons. It's where he feels the director's roots in shooting very arty commercials overtake the film.

The spectre of Eva Galli (SPOILER) which frightens Melvyn Douglas to death in GHOST STORY was originally a horrifying creature which, when she threw her hair back, had a face that was ALL mouth. In previews, though, they realized that the monster had no relationship with any of the other corpse-like apparitions. The director told Smith he'd cover it with something he'd put together - and then turned around and asked Dick just what he was supposed to use there. Dick played around with one of the other figures he'd built, and they shot Eva (Alice Krige) pulling back her shawl and then the dead thing, adding the background (Dr. Jaffrey's waiting room) as a visual effect.

"Ghost Story" one of my all-time favs. Loved the concept of the story, showing "ghosts" in both literal & symbolic sense. Movie was much better than the book (which was too long & over-written IMO).

GHOST STORY just came out on an improved, anamorphic DVD, but it was one messy production, as the director John Irvin resisted the fact that he was making a horror film. I saw it in the theater a few times when it opened. Peter Straub has admitted that he used Stephen King's 'SALEM'S LOT as a blueprint for how to write a long novel about evil in a small town.

I thought the film was a big disappointment, though I perversely also enjoy its oddness. The conceit of the book, that Eva/Alma/Anna was NEVER human to begin with, and that the events of the novel touch on famous literary ghost stories, didn't survive in a two-hour film. As has been suggested on other sites, it might be the right time for a mini-series remake!

Thanks, Bob. I own both movies on video and wanted to know so I could watch both scenes! That scene in the attic in The Hunger is, for me, one of the most horrific, watching as Miriam's (Catherine Deneuve) world literally crumbles around her.

I don't recall that scene in Ghost Story very well, will have to watch it to refresh my memory. Alice Krige was lovely in the period dress parts of the movie, she just looked the part of a woman from another era, some actress' can't pull it off, they just look too modern.

I love THE HUNGER from beginning to end, including blowing draperies and pigeons, and I LOVE Alice Krige all through GHOST STORY.

ADDENDUM: Not only does THE HUNGER look great on DVD, I wanted to mention an article I just read in todays' (10/7) NY TIMES. It's about a woman named Frances Glessner Lee who built 19 dollhouse crime-scene rooms. I haven't yet checked to see if there's anything about her floating around in the ether of the Net, but I longed to see her Borden rooms; alas, she didn't do any, it seems - and she renamed the players in her little tableaus, anyway.

In the new WEIRD U.S. (by the people that bring you WEIRD N.J.), various writers were sent all over the counrty. One of them ended up at Second Street, alas. You'll first notice that the shot of the guest room and bureau has been flipped, so the bureau's on the wrong side. Then you'll read that the writer learned on the tour that Dr. Bowen visited the family the very morning of the murders, and may have been the last to see them alive!

Need I go on?

And, btw, I'm attending the CHILLER Horror/Sci fi convention in New Jersey on Sunday and, as black is de rigeur, I can't decide whether to wear my black and red "Free Lizzie!" t-shirt, or my natty black "Lizzie Borden Bed & Breakfast/Museum" polo shirt!

Bob Gutowski @ Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:13 pm wrote:GHOST STORY just came out on an improved, anamorphic DVD <snip>

I thought the film was a big disappointment, though I perversely also enjoy its oddness. The conceit of the book, that Eva/Alma/Anna was NEVER human to begin with, and that the events of the novel touch on famous literary ghost stories, didn't survive in a two-hour film.

The film is a disappointment, though there are one or two beautiful images -- particularly the one in which the car is sinking into the lake, and her hand comes up against the rear window. Gorgeous. (And James Cameron, or his cameraman, has a hell of a sense of humor -- the defloration scene in Titanic alludes to that shot.)

I love the book, which is set in an area right up the road from where I grew up. But The Throat is my favorite Peter Straub.

Lynn

I hadn't thought of the shot in TITANIC. How about that bloody, misshapen hand of the inside-out baboon striking the window of the telepod in the remake of THE FLY?

I enjoyed your post!

ADDENDUM: I may get to meet Peter Straub at the CHILLER convention I'm attending Sunday! I was just looking over the guest list and he's on it.

I just found a Lizzie mention in a book I'm reading; WORMWOOD by Poppy Z. Brite. Its in the introduction of all places:

"Shades of the good-old Jack London days when writers had lived before they sat down to write. Now the obligatory author's bio usually reads "Ms. Termugglie is a recipient of a Guggenheim fellowship, two Nea Foundation grants, the Lizzie Borden NOW Award for Politically Correct Fiction Involving Activist Women, and the Breadloaf Ms. Congeniality Runners-up Trophy....."

Did anyone see the Lizzie stuff that was available for Halloween?

I saw these two items:





From this site:

http://www.exmortis.com/decor.html

There was even a costume based on the outfit that the Living Dead Lizzie doll wore!



Living Dead Dolls Halloween Costume - Lizzie Borden Adult Costume
Adult Size: Fits Up to Size 12
Costume includes: Dramatic Velvet Jacket and Matching Vest, Coordinating Full-Length Black Velvet Skirt

But, it didn't include the hatchet and it showed the model on the cover weilding a meat cleaver.

I might have to have the Halloween costume.

I can get a hatchet.....

I saw that costume in a Halloween store here in town. It cost $40


TRacy...

...if I ever do drag, I know who I'm dressing as!

I got to chat with Peter Straub at the CHILLER convention Sunday - just a quickie. What a nice, jovial guy! We talked about the pity that was the film of GHOST STORY.

I am SO having that costume... $40 is peanuts for such a thing.... I may even make my own costume. I can sew in my sleep....

Audrey if I were you, I would sew it myself. The "velvet" of the dress was very thin and whatever it was made from looked like it would be really hot to wear, like it didn't breath at all.

I did Lizzie one year for Halloween and stitched up an outfit for myself, I used a black sateen type of material that I was able to buy what was left on the roll for quite cheap. I had Lizzie's black Trial dress in mind, it had enormous leg-o-mutton sleeves and black lace trim and mantelet. I covered it all with a white bib apron that I also stitched up and covered that with fake blood spatters and handprints and I had made a petticoat out of the white material. I wore granny booties and a cheap, curly red wig and carried around a "hatchet" that I had made out of a papertowel cardboard roll, plain cardboard and lots of masking tape and paint. I think the only thing I was missing was a chic little chapeau to go with the ensemble.