Lizzie Borden Society Forum

The Fall River Globe had this to say on Aug. 9, 1892:

"Digging Up The Clothing.

The clothes which were worn by the victims and which were buried back of the barn were dug up yesterday afternoon by order of Medical Examiner Dolan. They were spread out on the lawn and he made a careful examination of the blood stains. He selected two lots of hair found clinging to Mrs. Borden's clothes and took them into his possession. When questioned as to the cause for taking up the garments and selecting the hair he refused to answer. He ordered the clothing placed in a shoe box and buried four feet below the surface of the ground."

These were dug up again later.
But imagine!
Lee-ann is digging near this area- pieces of Abby Borden's skull bones might be there!

I wonder if the area is higher (built up over time) or eroded, meaning things might come to light at a lesser depth?

Comparing the 1892 pictures of the yard to today, just visually, it looks higher now. However, it seems to have taken a surprisingly short time for Lee-Ann to get to those items in the privy dig. Some areas could be higher & others lower.

My nice Florida lot is pretty much eroding. I still have a sort of rise out front, but in the rear I am losing dirt and sod.

I hope they are digging a bit back from the barn as well, besides the old privy area.
Imagine if they find pieces of Andrew's Prince Albert Coat!

When someone died back then, well-to-do in the community, does anyone know what was done with their clothing and personal clothing?

Emma burned them in the stove. Just kidding(?) Probably much as today, some might give to charity or people they knew who could use them, others throw them out, & some people hold on to the dead person's clothes. Soil erosion is probably the most common if you live on higher ground. There's a contraversy going on in my little city right now over the original graveyard (about a block from where I live). It's been a park for about 80 years, but they left most of the bodies in there. It currently holds a war memorial & the city wants to put in yet another one. However, the cost will be enormous, as each time they dig even a few feet below the surface, they encounter a body. (I should imagine these were originally buried much deeper & the ground has eroded over the past 100+ yrs). So, to do proper archeological digs where they want to locate the new memorial will cost an arm & a leg (no pun intended). BTW -- I have discovered yet another tombstone outside my back door. I have yet to turn it over (I've been sick going on a week) but will do so soon. The other one is in my living room. I'm quite sure these came from the original cemetary, as the one I have is dated 1867.

Kat @ Mon May 23, 2005 1:20 pm wrote:I hope they are digging a bit back from the barn as well, besides the old privy area.
Imagine if they find pieces of Andrew's Prince Albert Coat!

When someone died back then, well-to-do in the community, does anyone know what was done with their clothing and personal clothing?

Oooo, I got a cold chill when I read that, like a goose walked over my grave! That would be something if anything was found of the buried clothing! I notice that no shoes were mentioned in the things that were buried in the yard, were Andrew and Abby buried in the shoes that they died in? Or, were they perhaps donated to charity or given to someone the Borden girls knew who might use them?

Ooooo I hope too

There is a private cemetery on our property. It holds the remains of 2 generations of the family who originally built the house.

When we moved in the house had been empty for some time. The cemetery was in dreadful condition. By state law we are required to not only not disturb the graves but to maintain them as well. We did have the stones professionally cleaned and Thayne and the boys made it a summer project to erect a split rail fence there. It is about 1/8 of a mile from the house in a peaceful grove of trees.

I like tending the area and making sure the graves have flowers on Memorial Day and other important times.

As per another state law the owners (us) of the property can bury their dead in the cemetery until it is full-- But can no longer designate additional acres or space for plots and each grave must be marked with a permanent marker.

It is full of friendly energy.....

Aw cool Any ghosts

That must be very interesting, Audrey, knowing the names & whatever info is on the stones -- knowing who lived there before you. & their memory is still there on the property! I think the situation in our city over this original graveyard is terrible. Unfortunately, the land is right in the middle of downtown, forming a part of the civic square across from City Hall. The lack of respect shown when the park was put in is horrible, IMO. The cemetery was in what was considered an "inconvenient" place as the city grew & it was basically covered over. Part of it is beneath the parking lot of my old high school (built in 1898). Weird, as these would have been the ancestors (just one or two generations away) of those who decided to get rid of the cemetery! The stones I found in my yard are not unique -- they were used for yard masonry throughout the city. I'm not sure if there was ever an option for people to claim their familial remains & monuments or exactly what happened. Just a lot of the bodies were left behind & the monuments ended up face down, forming walkways, etc in people's gardens. Now they're getting ready to unearth more of these people to honor war dead -- which to me is showing disrespect to an older generation to pay respects to a younger generation. Progress?

Audrey, that is so sweet of you to leave flowers on important dates, very thoughtful. It doesn't make sense that you have to "maintain"yet not "disturb" it. Wierd.


As for the buring of the clothes....this whole scenerio I have found very fishy! Especially after reading what Rebello had to say.....THE VICTIMS CLOTHING----page 110 and 111

Snippets I found intresting.

"John V. Morse took charge of disposing of the clothes"

(why did Morse take charge instead of an officer or medical person?)

"The clothes worn by the deaseased person's were buried near the house under the direction of Officer {Albert E.} Chace, , the bloodstained clothes, which the family were anxious to dispose of, together with portions of the skull which had been cut from the head of Mrs. Borden Were buried near the house.

(Now WHY was the family anxious to bury the clothes? And why didn't Officer Chace bury them himself and more.....why bury them? Why wouldn't they be transported with the bodies? This to me spells messy6 police work here)


"Just what the medical Examiner Dolan will say when he hears of this is not known. Earlier in the day he had forbidden any such interment"

(Why would they go against his wishes? Did they not respect his proffesion? They blotched it! I would have fired someone!!)

"John V. wanted the bloody clothing buried."

(maybe he thought it was his chance to tamper with evidence?)

what to think?

Yes the burying, the digging up, the re-buryng and the digging up again of the artifacts in the case is very odd behaviour!

A first burial might make some sense if it was a *custom* of the day- I mean that bloody stuff would be smelling by Thursday night. But once it was dug up the first time at least, why didn't the authorities take it away then? Morse didn't have a say in that operation.

very strange indeed.....and along with that note when they re-upolstered.the couch...who paid for that? and where did the blood soaked part go? Why not buried with the clothes also?

sooo many questions!

Thank you for the transcriptions from Rebello.

well now that I have it.....I feel I can contribute more...instead of everyone filling in the blanks for me:) This book is really amazing!!!

I feel like Im really "getting it" now to:)

Nona @ Wed May 25, 2005 1:07 pm wrote:Audrey, that is so sweet of you to leave flowers on important dates, very thoughtful. It doesn't make sense that you have to "maintain"yet not "disturb" it. Wierd.

As far as maintaining... It simply means we have to keep the grass mowed to a "reasonable length" and remove any tree branches, etc which might blow down. Not disturbing the graves means not digging them up or defacing the stones.