Lizzie Borden Society Forum

This was posted January by me:

This is kind of strange. I just noticed these pictures I had collected from the web last April to repeat on my desktop as background color. For some reason, I had collected Asian or Japanese art and I realized I had 2 views of a Tsunami and one view of a person up a tree, looking like they are above a flood rushing by.
I don't know if this was my own form of presentiment- I have seen major events in the future before, but in different venues, like dreams.

(The wave picture is a duplicate, with differnt borders and color accents, but I did pick the same picture twice!)

...........
A Lot of little things have happened, of course, like reading a word on the computer just as it's spoken on TV. Some odd word rarely used.
Something big too, but I don't recall right now.

Then recently I completed a telephone opinion survey which at the end I was asked which 2 places do I shop at the most- shopping plazas. I named my local mall, and I named the plaza where my Publix Supermarket is located because there are lots of stores up there which I patronize. As I named it, I told the lady that the name had changed from what it was for 20 years and it was hard for me to remember the new name. I told her it used to be called Butler Plaza but in the past 3 years it's now called Casselton Corners. I even spelled it for her. Then I did leave to go get groceries and noticed the name was not Casselton Corners it was something else. "__ Commons." I thought Oh shoot I misled the survey people.
That night I was searching books on-line from the 1800's. In about 10 minutes of just getting there to look around I found a book on New York City in the late 1800's with illustrations. I checked the index and there was a chapter on Casselton Corners!

I bring this up because something just happened again.

Last night while asleep I dreamed I heard my brother speak into my ear by telephone. He said "Hi Kat, It's __" Now that was odd because he tends to call me about every other Sunday. I thought today maybe I should call him but I thought he was out of the country. A bit ago he phoned me! He said "Hi Kat! It's __" He was in Cancoun and was calling about the *hurricane.* All I could say to him was that I had heard him say that to me last night in my ear! He said his phone card gave out as he was calling me last night and he had to wait until today to get another. He said "Well, I was saying hello to you last night, just not over the phone!"

Don't you just love this stuff! I'm so blessed!

Very cool. I sometimes hear voices like that when I'm going into/coming out of sleep. (Kind of weird to admit one "hears voices"!) Most often with me, however, they are voices of people who have passed. Re. "...reading a word on the computer just as it's spoken on TV." I don't think I've had this while on the computer (tho I don't use computer & TV at the same time), but I've had it happen with TV & a magazine or book, and crossword puzzles! Unfortunately, the word never seems to have any "significance" & so one wonders *why* this stuff happens.

I've had a quite a few things like this happen to me. Mine are mostly feelings. I can usually tell what someone I know is going to have if they are pregnant. I even told my sister Amber that she was going to have a boy, and have it on my birthday. My birthday is November 16th. She wasn't due until the first week in December. She said no way. She went into labor the afternoon of my birthday, but the little booger wasn't born until after 12am so that makes his birthday November 17th. My sister came to my house that day when she went into labor, walked in and said "I Hope you're happy!" . I was at the hospital when he was born. I told my other sister Jessica she was going to have a girl, and she did. My cousin Stacy is pregnant, and I told her she is going to have a boy. I will have to let you all know whether I am right or not in a few months . The one premonition I got which is the most noted for me was one time we were on our way back to Fall River. We had already paid the deposit to hold our room. We were just about ready to turn and get on the Pennsylvania Turnpike when I told my husband NOT to do it. I said for some reason I just get this strong feeling we should NOT get on the turnpike. He thought I was utterly nuts because we had already sent the money for the room, which we would lose for just not showing up. But he turned away from the turnpike and we ended up heading towards Morgantown, West Virginia instead. We pulled into a West Virginia Welcome center near there, and wouldn't you know it, as soon as we pulled in there the car broke down. We spent three days of utter hell using the money we would've used for our stay in Fall River on getting the car towed to a local garage, spending three nights in a local motel, and eating and all the other expenses that go with being stuck in Morgantown West Virginia for three days with a busted car. We were basically confined to the area around our motel because we of course had no car, and found it cheaper to walk than to call a taxi. It turns out it was the transmission that needed fixed. I cannot understand how the transmission could go out of the car with no forewarning, but it did. We finally had to call a friend to come and get us and come back for the car when it was finished. I refused to stay another day. This was definitely not the vacation I had planned for, or wanted. The phone bill for our motel room was outrageous on top of that. I swear sometimes I think Lizzie has cursed us from beyond, and doesn't want us to come back to Fall River.

Well, being stuck in Morgantown WV with a sick car is probably better than being stuck in South Hill VA. That happened to me years ago, when I was driving a brand new car and had two little boys with me. Since the car quit late in the afternoon, we had to spend the night, and I cheerily told the boys we'd have dinner at the nicest restaurant in town. More like the ONLY restaurant in town. One of the boys ordered a steak, rare. Figuring that particular place probably didn't have very good steaks, I ordered a grilled pork chop. The waitress asked me, "Would you like that rare?" Right! On top of being stuck in Podunk, I'm gonna risk getting trichinosis. In fairness to South Hill, though, it had the nicest people in the world. The guy at the gas station actually lent me his own car so I could visit my aunt, who lived nearby. Too bad I don't have second sight. I would never have set out on that trip!

Kat...when we get together to dicuss our Rappaport books...we can talk about this stuff too. I want training from you !


Tracy...

Edisto @ Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:35 pm wrote:Well, being stuck in Morgantown WV with a sick car is probably better than being stuck in South Hill VA. That happened to me years ago, when I was driving a brand new car and had two little boys with me. Since the car quit late in the afternoon, we had to spend the night, and I cheerily told the boys we'd have dinner at the nicest restaurant in town. More like the ONLY restaurant in town. One of the boys ordered a steak, rare. Figuring that particular place probably didn't have very good steaks, I ordered a grilled pork chop. The waitress asked me, "Would you like that rare?" Right! On top of being stuck in Podunk, I'm gonna risk getting trichinosis. In fairness to South Hill, though, it had the nicest people in the world. The guy at the gas station actually lent me his own car so I could visit my aunt, who lived nearby. Too bad I don't have second sight. I would never have set out on that trip!

It sounds like your trip rated about the same as mine did on the " fun meter" edisto. My husband and I laugh about it now, but I don't think I'd ever want to relive the experience. Not in a million years .

Great stories you guys!

I want training, Tracy- I don't give it!

I know that Noreen Renier used to live in my area, maybe she could give me some tips.
If it's not useful, I'd really prefer not to have it. I wonder how she lives with it?

But Kat...you would be a great teacher just by sharing your experiences. Just listening to some of your stories would be very enlightening.


Tracy...

I want to learn how to turn it on and off.
This psychic works with detectives. She's often featured on The Psychic Detectives on Court TV.

I couldn't do that kind of work.

Was it John Douglas who quoted *Whoever fights mobsters looks into the abyss, but remember the abyss also looks into you.*
(Or something along those lines). Some people can literally make me sick.

The only advice I would give is to be aware.
(Those who responded here already know this- but the being *Aware* part is the best part).

Allen @ Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:31 am wrote:My cousin Stacy is pregnant, and I told her she is going to have a boy. I will have to let you all know whether I am right or not in a few months

The new baby, which my cousin named Alexander Scott, was born on January 15th at 2:16 a.m. He weighed 7lbs and 11 ounces and was 21 inches long.

A VERY interesting book which can be easily (and cheaply) purchased on ebay...

Allen @ Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:15 pm wrote:

Allen @ Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:31 am wrote:My cousin Stacy is pregnant, and I told her she is going to have a boy. I will have to let you all know whether I am right or not in a few months

The new baby, which my cousin named Alexander Scott, was born on January 15th at 2:16 a.m. He weighed 7lbs and 11 ounces and was 21 inches long.

CONGRATULATIONS! That's a Lovely Baby BOY! YAY!

Audrey @ Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:17 pm wrote:A VERY interesting book which can be easily (and cheaply) purchased on ebay...

I purchased this book from Ebay and can recommend it. I don't know if I am more/less psychic-- But it did help me learn to think better and respect my instinct more.

I'll have to look around for it. There is a bookstore in my area which usually carries a wide and diverse collection of books, even books on wicca and witchcraft, I'll see if I can find a copy there and look it over.

Walmart.com usually has a decent selection. Prices (including shipping) tend to be cheapest on that website as well. I just checked it out, and it appears that it is out of stock at this time, but I am sure they will get more.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product. ... _id=539268


Tracy...

He who fights monsters should look into it that he himself does not become a monster. When you gaze long into the Abyss, the Abyss also gazes into you.

- Friedrich Nietzsche, In Horror

theebmonique @ Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:34 am wrote:Walmart.com usually has a decent selection. Prices (including shipping) tend to be cheapest on that website as well. I just checked it out, and it appears that it is out of stock at this time, but I am sure they will get more.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product. ... _id=539268


Tracy...

One of the nice things about buying things from Walmart.com is that if you are leery of using a CC over the Internet you can buy their gift cards at the store with cash and shop with them both at walmart.com and samsclub.com. Of course Sam's club requires a membership to shop even on-line.

Audrey @ Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:55 pm wrote:
One of the nice things about buying things from Walmart.com is that if you are leery of using a CC over the Internet you can buy their gift cards at the store with cash and shop with them both at walmart.com and samsclub.com. Of course Sam's club requires a membership to shop even on-line.

Thanks for the tip Audrey. I'm always appreciative of helpful shopping tips.

nbcatlover @ Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:05 pm wrote:He who fights monsters should look into it that he himself does not become a monster. When you gaze long into the Abyss, the Abyss also gazes into you.

- Friedrich Nietzsche, In Horror

Thank you Cynthia- I love that quote.
In the recent show on TV interviewing Robert Ressler I believe, they used that quote again.
It's what kept me away from the Orlando Bundy trial.

Was that the Bundy trial in Orlando? Or did Ted have a brother? Orlando is a popular Portuguese name, even before Orlando Bloom.

Allen--I've just been zipping through this site lately. I had not noticed the baby picture.

He's just beautiful!

Yes it was Ted Bundy's trial for Miss Kimberly Leach and he got the death sentence here and he baked.

Kat @ Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:17 pm wrote:Yes it was Ted Bundy's trial for Miss Kimberly Leach and he got the death sentence here and he baked.

I hate to sound crass but I almost wish I had been the one to throw the switch on Bundy. The local burger shop was selling "Bundy Fries" with the burgers.

-1bigsteve (o:

3 more *coincidences* in the past week:

The other night I was a bit frustrated and was standing near my dining room table. For some reason, I reached out and knocked on the table 3 times, and immediately heard 2 knocks come from the darkened bedroom 10 feet behind me, which had been my parents'.

I was watching Derek Accora (sp?) on Most Haunted and he was trying to get the name of a spirit visitor to the property he was investigating. He was looking up reaching for the name and I popped out with Margaret. Within a second he said "Margaret!"

On the new John Edward show, he was talking about something or someone who *passed* with initials for a name. As he was about to say them, I said "C.J." I was right. It was their dog, known as "C.J." I am beginning to think I can read psychics minds, especially when they are really concentrating!

Two nights ago I dreamed about 2 snails.
Yesterday I went over to Stefani's and she pointed out a snail on her widow. That reminded me!
We went outside and there was another snail on the windowsill. 2 snails.

I went to a doctor's office and was waiting in the waiting room on Monday. I started talking to the lady across from me about how we all are connected and once we chat to people we find something in common. Then I said "like my pharmasist, who I call Don Don The Pharmacy Mon." I was about to tell her that I found out Don and I had gone to 2nd grade together. But as soon as I said that she exclaimed, "Is that Don Monroe? He was a friend of my husband, who also was a pharmacist!"

I do not know why the 3rd sentence out of my mouth to this lady was about my pharmacist. Her husband had died. She asked me to say hello to Don next time I saw him, from her and her husband.

Kat,

Do you keep a dream journal? Those are quite fascinating. I have kept one for years and when I go back to read them they are amazingly accurate. I used to set alarms to go off at different times in the middle of the night hopefully during REM and I always kept a recorder or book there to write or record the dreams.
Are you familiar with Reiki?

I think I know of some earlier versions or alternatives to what you call Reiki (after I looked it up).

I do believe in some cases the mind can heal the body. I also think we can affect others with our minds. It takes so much concentration- I don't seem to have it anymore. When I was young I did, to a point. I have helped a few people (and myself) short-term with my concentration.

I kept a dream journal in college because I was doing independent study, and submitted my dream journal as poetry after re-working it. I also illustrated it. It was a fun project.

As for lucid dreaming- I do have one rule in my dreaming that I have been able to impose on myself so I do have that one *control* in place. Otherwise, no, not now do I lucid dream or keep a journal.

Yes there are many althernate versions of Reiki, just saw your post on not being able to turn it off and thought maybe that could help you. It is rather annoying when you cant get it to shut off.

I would have so many dreams that would come true that it started freaking me out and I quit tracking them. Very fascinating stuff!!!!

How long have you had this ability?
And do people believe you?
I find that some do- and some don't- and some are so used to my *ways* that they are not even impressed anymore.
Luckily I am still impressed when it happens!
It's not very useful tho.

Last year I had a series of recurring dreams that were so real I was sure I was awake and would awaken in my dream to show myself it was really happening. But then after a bit I would really wake up and boy that is confusing!

Well the first time I actually was aware of it was around Christmas when I was in grade school. I knew what was in the packages and told them what was in there. I got in a lot of trouble because naturally they assumed I had opened the gifts or something of the sort. I learned to keep it to myself then and you know they still keep my presents in the safe to this day. So no people have a hard time believing. Have had a few friends and roommates who have seen it and they are firm believers, but for the most part, no one believes it.
In my twenties I was buying a lot of esoteric books, H.P. Blavatsky, Jung etc and the bookseller took me aside and gave me classes in self actualization (Not Maslows Hierarchy). But something very similar to Reiki he had learned when he lived in New York. Has always seemed to me that when I was ready to learn a teacher always appeared. It is fascinating to me, used to scare me at times and mostly I try to keep it turned off and to myself.

I personally am still impressed by people with these sorts of gifts, it really is amazing when people are spot on with what they get. So, Bobbie, do you get any sort of presentiment at all with the Borden case? Anything that particularly jumps out at you that you get a "flash" on? I've heard or read three different psychics takes on the Borden case, two say Lizzie did it and the last seems to think that it was John Morse.

That's a good question, actually!
I hadn't thought to ask that of myself, tho TinaKate used to ask me that.
I don't even think to ask myself lottery numbers tho I have had good luck with Jai Lai and the dog track- which I am too politically aware of animals now to ever go there again.

You sound very gifted, bobarth. I hope it can bring you happiness.

Susan @ Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:53 pm wrote:I personally am still impressed by people with these sorts of gifts, it really is amazing when people are spot on with what they get. So, Bobbie, do you get any sort of presentiment at all with the Borden case? Anything that particularly jumps out at you that you get a "flash" on? I've heard or read three different psychics takes on the Borden case, two say Lizzie did it and the last seems to think that it was John Morse.

Beware of self-appointed experts who can only know what they've read in books. We all know who really did it, based on the known facts.
You might just as well use an Ouija board to discover the truth.

Well the first time I actually was aware of it was around Christmas when I was in grade school. I knew what was in the packages and told them what was in there. I got in a lot of trouble because naturally they assumed I had opened the gifts or something of the sort. I learned to keep it to myself then and you know they still keep my presents in the safe to this day. So no people have a hard time believing. Have had a few friends and roommates who have seen it and they are firm believers, but for the most part, no one believes it.

I saw a book on withcraft. Knowing the future was considered to be in league with the devil. A person can surmise from known facts.
If you live near Salem be sure to buy asbestos underwear and dresses!

RayS @ Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:26 pm wrote:

Susan @ Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:53 pm wrote:I personally am still impressed by people with these sorts of gifts, it really is amazing when people are spot on with what they get. So, Bobbie, do you get any sort of presentiment at all with the Borden case? Anything that particularly jumps out at you that you get a "flash" on? I've heard or read three different psychics takes on the Borden case, two say Lizzie did it and the last seems to think that it was John Morse.

Beware of self-appointed experts who can only know what they've read in books. We all know who really did it, based on the known facts.
You might just as well use an Ouija board to discover the truth.

"We all know who really did it, based on the known facts."
Don't assume "we" all agree on anything. "We" are all aware of your opinion Rays, it is listed on every single thread, over and over, and over, and over, and......well you get the point. Geesh.

I have no "sense" of who did it, the only thing I feel is great sadness for Lizzie. I feel empathy and that is about all. I have always defended the "underdog" and people who were picked on, so that is just in my nature.

I really cant believe I have shared this as normally I dont. I just saw where Kat said that she could not turn it off and I can relate to that and had to share. It is quite annoying at times, and I would never dream of using it for profit.

Yes Ray several 100 years ago you could have burnt me at the stake or maybe a good drowning as I mix herbs to cure the sniffles too. I am very well aware of what the bible says on witchcraft, however if the Zorastorians (The 3 wise men) would not have been using astrology then how would they have found the new baby in the manger?

Smudgeman @ Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:21 pm wrote:...
"We all know who really did it, based on the known facts."
Don't assume "we" all agree on anything. "We" are all aware of your opinion Rays, it is listed on every single thread, over and over, and over, and over, and......well you get the point. Geesh.

Perhaps my irony doesn't come across in the text?
But surely we know people who will become totally convince by what they read or hear on broadcast media? Until they hear something else?

bobarth @ Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:01 am wrote:...
It is quite annoying at times, and I would never dream of using it for profit.
Yes Ray several 100 years ago you could have burnt me at the stake or maybe a good drowning as I mix herbs to cure the sniffles too. I am very well aware of what the bible says on witchcraft, however if the Zorastorians (The 3 wise men) would not have been using astrology then how would they have found the new baby in the manger?

I can assure you that I would never have burnt you at the stake 100 years ago. Or even earlier. They hanged witches in Mass in the 17th cent.
Being "sensitive" or "lucky" doesn not mean trafficking with Satan, IMO. But I could be wrong again.
IF you can use your skills to profit, please do so. Its to your advantage. If you don't believe me, ask Andy Borden.

Oh so glad to hear you would not burn me at the stake. The thought of picking lottery numbers never crossed my mind and I seriously doubt if I could even do that. It usually pops up when it is not needed and never when it is needed. I am not so sure all that money made Andrew happy. I would much rather be happy than rich. Besides I would just give it to charities or buy a Rebello book.

Thanks, Bobbie. I'm with you, I feel a sadness for Lizzie and about Lizzie; whether she is innocent or guilty, I feel she was one unhappy lady. I'm always interested in reading about possible "flashes" or insights in the Borden case, might give us a new avenue to check into that could possible lead to a bit more information. While I don't subscribe to the psychic's takes I've encountered so far, they are still interesting to hear. It would be incredible to get someone who can do psychometry (sp?) and do a reading on the handless hatchet to see if it was indeed the murder weapon. I had a high school Spanish teacher who could do that, it was really something, he was 98% correct with his information!

bobarth @ Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:14 pm wrote:Oh so glad to hear you would not burn me at the stake. The thought of picking lottery numbers never crossed my mind and I seriously doubt if I could even do that. It usually pops up when it is not needed and never when it is needed. I am not so sure all that money made Andrew happy. I would much rather be happy than rich. Besides I would just give it to charities or buy a Rebello book.

Fergie (?) the former Dutchess of Wales said if you believe that money can't buy happiness you don't know where to shop. Andy was happy, that's why he was in his business. It is much better to be rich and happy/unhappy than to be poor and happy/unhappy. Happiness is a state of mind, one that you can pretty much determine for yourself. IMO

I once read a paper by a PhD who told about picking lottery numbers. Certain numbers tend to reappear, a trend. Others, not being picked, are likely to turn up. He told of a scheme where you keep track of all winning number for at least a month (3 better?) and count the occurrences of each number. From that you chart what numbers are likely to be picked next. But you will get dozens of combinations, not just one or two tickets.
Hint: stop playing and save to get the money to buy the combinations.

Does it work? Years ago I worked this out for my Mother and picked out 32 sets of numbers. She didn't want to spend that much, so she picked out just 16. One ticket hit on 3 numbers; not enough to win, but more than the zero or one she got by playing the same numbers all the time.

One tip was not to pick numbers that are consecutive or near the top or bottom range. Don't remember much else.

Have also heard that playing the lottery is for people who dont know statistics, I think the odds are greater that you will be hit by lightening than win at lottery. We all pool our money at work and buy several tickets, so guess that does not stop me from playing though.
I tend to agree that happiness is a state of mind.

They used to sell software programs that could run on a personal computer. You would have to enter the statistics. But this is too much like work for people who just want to throw their money away.
One book on gambling suggested that gamblers have some problem with money and want to get rid of it that way. We do know that many robbers or burglars will gamble their money. The James and Younger brothers would head for the casinos of Dallas whenver they scored a bank job.

Susan I feel so bad for Ms. Lizzie but am wondering if I thought she did it would I still feel bad for her?
But it does break my heart to think if she was innocent and had to endure jail and false rumors all her life.
I think it would be awesome to get someone to do the psychometry on items related to the case. I have read about the accuracy of some people, amazes me still that they can do that and be so right on with it. I would love to read anything on
psychic's opinion too, dont put much stock in it myself but would enjoy reading what they had to say. Is your Spanish teacher still around?

bobarth @ Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:51 pm wrote:Susan I feel so bad for Ms. Lizzie but am wondering if I thought she did it would I still feel bad for her?
But it does break my heart to think if she was innocent and had to endure jail and false rumors all her life.
I think it would be awesome to get someone to do the psychometry on items related to the case. I have read about the accuracy of some people, amazes me still that they can do that and be so right on with it. I would love to read anything on
psychic's opinion too, dont put much stock in it myself but would enjoy reading what they had to say. Is your Spanish teacher still around?

I don't really feel sorry for Lizzie if she was guilty, but I can somewhat understand what may have made her snap, if what I suspect was going on in her life was true. At the least, she felt unloved and unlovable; at the most, she may have been victim to some pretty awful family dysfunction.

No, Bobbie, unfortunately not, my old Spanish teacher is no longer teaching at my old high school and I haven't been able to get an answer on where he may currently be working. He read an old family photograph of my one greatgrandmother and grandmother that was sealed in an envelope. I wrote down everything he came up with as I didn't have any idea with some of the info and he was right on! One thing that I recall he said that was quite interesting though, he didn't want anyone to bring in anything for him to read that belonged to someone who was murdered or died a violent death as he felt it. Yikes!

I've always have felt that even if Lizzie didn't do it, she knew who did, so in my mind she at least has that guilt on her head. And, I do still feel sad for her, she may have been misguided in her way of thinking in so many ways; things didn't quite turn out how she thought they would.

Susan,
What a shame that your teacher could not be reached to try and shed any light on what may have happened. Of course if he can "feel" what happened it would be cruel to do to him. Fascinating stuff and love hearing stories on metaphysically gifted individuals.

I agree that Lizzie knew who the murderer was and IMO protected them for some reason. I have a lot more reading and researching to do so my opinion could change. I feel very strongly though that she was falsely accused and suffered terribly for it.

I have a really nice fabric store nearby, called Hancock Fabrics. They have neat home accessories that are always 40% off so I take a look in there before I do my grocery shopping.

Finally I decided I would like some fabric to cover my wall because I am allergic to paint.
I went in and spent 2 whole hours one rainy day about 7 weeks ago looking at over 1,000 fabrics. I had a color photo of my new rug and was trying to get at least one color match.

I finally found something I liked that was suitable. The lady cut a small piece for me to take home to throw on my rug and chairs to check the color shades.

I decided not to spend the money as I had picked a rather expensixe fabric for a wall covering. I carried that swatch around in my purse to match other items whenever I found myself in a decorating store.

I just went into Hancock Fabrics again for the first time since I got my swatch almost 2 months ago. They are having a going out of business sale.
They had 3 parsons chairs displayed, that the home office had sent them to sell. 2 were solid color- putty and butter- the 3rd was upholstered in my swatch!

Out of thousands of fabrics to choose from I chose that one! And they received a chair covered in that fabric! Unbelievable!

This was 2 days ago.

I told them I was meant to have that chair, but even on sale it was too expensive! They told me to keep checking back for further discounts before they finally move the store out.

I think they should sell me the chair!

Smudgeman @ Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:21 pm wrote:...
"We all know who really did it, based on the known facts."
Don't assume "we" all agree on anything. "We" are all aware of your opinion Rays, it is listed on every single thread, over and over, and over, and over, and......well you get the point. Geesh.

Yes, but if you separated people according to their beliefs you will arrive at a "we" grouping. IMO
I didn't say that they would all agree, now did I?