Lizzie Borden Society Forum

This is a portion of Alice Russell's trial testimony, p376, where she is relating Lizzie and her conversation the night of the 3rd:

"... And she [Lizzie] says, "Sometimes I think our milk might be poisoned." And I said, "Well, how do you get your milk; how could it be poisoned?" And she said, "We have the milk come in a can and set on the step, and we have an empty can. They put out the empty can overnight, and the next morning when they bring the milk they take the empty can." And I said, "Well, if they put anything in the can the farmer would see it." And then I said - I asked her what time the milk came, if she knew. She said, "I think about four o'clock." And I said, "Well, it is light at four. I shouldn't think anybody would dare to come then and tamper with the cans for fear somebody would see them."... "

When we were in Fall River during the first week in August, Kat brought up the subject that Daylight Savings time did not exist in 1892 so we were all off by one hour in trying to recreate anything that happened then.

I usually rise about 6 and it is still fairly dark out and it is still Daylight Savings time. Correct me if I am wrong. Would it not be quite dark at 4 a.m. in August 1892?

Not that I believe the milk was poisoned by anyone outside but just curious about how dark it would be. I was not going to get up at 4 while in Fall River to test it.

I can't imagine it really being light at 4 a.m. either. I have seen daylight at 4 a.m., but that was when I was in Alaska. The sun went down at midnight and came up between 3:30 and 4 a.m. I wonder what made Alice say it was light at that time of day ? Were the time zones different back then ?


Tracy...

A little past halfway down the page here:

http://www.yankeeclassic.com/ycp/other/massclim.htm

Shows the average sunrise/sunset times of different dates throughout the year for both daylight and regular times.

I cannot imagine it was ever light at 4am... Or that Alice was up to witness it for that matter!

I have never heard of it getting light at 4:00AM anywhere in the lower 48 states regardless of the time zone. Northern Canada possibly. I think 5:00AM is about the earliest I can remember seeing daylight rays in California.

-1bigsteve (o:

According to that chart sunrise on August 1st is at 5:36 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time.

But if they did not have Daylight savings time would not the equivalent be 4:36 a.m. Eastern Standard Time? ie: sunrise would be 4:36?

Here's some info on DST.
http://www.timeanddate.com/time/aboutdst.html


Tracy...

According to the Old Farmer's Almanac and the Navy, SUNRISE for Fall River on August 4 is about 5:42 Daylight Savings Time or 4:42 Standard Time. This varies a bit from year to year, but it's close enough for our purpose.

Sunrise is when the top of the sun's circle peeks over the horizon.

The Navy site goes on to list the time for CIVIL TWILIGHT, which is the time when objects outdoors can be clearly identified without the use of artificial light. That time for Fall River on August 4 is 4:11 A.M. Standard Time. It goes on to say that total darkness ends some time before Civil Twilight.

Alice seems to be correct.

Thanks for the info, Chris. Hmmm, I guess Alice must have meant that it was light enough at that point that a potential posioner might be noticed by the tradespeople that were out and about at that hour. I remember east coast sunrises in New Jersey, before the sun would come over the horizon how the sky would begin to lighten though you could still see stars in the sky. I'm wondering how early Alice would be up in the morning, did she see many a sunrise? Or was her knowledge of the light quality at 4:00 in the morning from hearsay?

I would imagine quite a number of people might be up at 4:00 a.m. back then. Although life was adjusted to the clock more in cities than in the country, the early to bed, early to rise mentality was quite normal back when there was still relatively poor artificial lighting in homes at night. Lot's of people probably retired not too long after dark. Think about the fact that even Lizzie, a woman in her thirties visiting a friend very close to home, was back to her own home by around 9:00 p.m.

And some folks seem to need less sleep as they age. I have three friends in their 70s, all in different households, who generally eat breakfast by about 5:30 a.m. And one of 'em is out eating breakfast at a restaurant every morning at that time. She often helps the waitresses set the place up in the morning before the regulars arrive. . . Even at 47, I can't go to bed much before 11:00 or 11:30 now or else I'll be wide awake by 5:00 a.m.

As we age our body produces less melatonin, the natural chemical that causes us to sleep..

I am near to forty (Mon Dieu) and I can still sleep 7-8 hours per night with no trouble!

But once she got the can of milk in the house, wouldn't she have seen the can had been tampered with? Or is one of the things the can had a screw on lid? I am curious about this too.

I was just reading about what time Emma brought the milk in after Bridget had left the Borden employ and it wasn't until 8 o'clock!
(Newspaper item).
They didn't know how good they had it until the maid left.