Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Did the Bordens speak with the quintessential New England accent?

Do Fall River natives, born & bred, still speak with the local dialect of their forefathers or is it slowly disappearing?

I would love to hear a recording of Lizzie's voice. Her tone...her accent...her pronounciation of words. It would make the whole experience of being a "Bordenite" more personal. Whenever I read through the trial transcripts I try to imagine Lizzie speaking, but it's difficult for me when I don't know exactly how she spoke in real life.

Whenever I read the trial transcripts of Bridget, I can hear that lovely Irish accent answering all those questions.

You come up with all kinds of neat ideas, Diane.

I would love to hear Lizzie's voice, more out of curiosity than anything else. Was she an alto? (please say she was an alto) Soprano? I can see her voice becoming "vedy vedy up posh" upon arriving at Maplecroft. A pocket full of cash and a nice home will do that to you. No doubt she spoke the native accent for Fall River.

It's too bad someone didn't think to capture her and her voice on camera and a recorder. Now days they sure would. Maybe she sounded like Elizabeth Montgomery.

-1bigsteve (o:

I would love to think she had that accent. The natives of Fall River do indeed still talk this way. I love the accent! Dave (who cooks all that wonderful food in the mornings) and I were talking about it on the front steps of the B&B on the evening of my last visit. I said something about the loving the accent, and he said "We pahk the cah in the Hahvahd yahd here". I heard many other natives of Mass. use this same quote to demonstrate the dialect. I guess maybe it's a standard? " Park the car in the Harvard Yard." My spelling is atrocious but I hope you all still get my meaning.

We had a few discussions of New England accents in the archives. Found this one, beginning around thread #23:

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archi ... sworld.htm

Type accent in the search field and there are quite a few more.

I think she probably had a very "victorian" New England accent. Probably a nice one.

If you live in New Bedford, you think a Fall River accent sounds more like Providence than Boston.
They say Baab for Bob.

nb is right. The Westport/Fall River line is about where the accent changes to what I call the Rhode Island accent, which becomes more pronounced when you reach Swansea.

I personally don't think New Bedford/Fairhaven has a really strong Boston accent either, but whatever you'd call our accent it's not the same as Fall River.

By the way, for those of you not familiar with the layout of our towns, here, it goes like this from East to West traveling along Route 195.

CAPE COD
Buzzards Bay
Wareham
Marion
Mattapoisett
Fairhaven
New Bedford
Dartmouth
Westport
(The accent shifts here)
Fall River
Somerset
Swansea
Seekonk
RHODE ISLAND

Thanks you guys!
That's probably why the court steno in New Bedford got some witness names wrong.
The witness is asked state your name, and you get printed Winwood when it's Winward.

I'm with Fairhaven Guy. I don't think New Bedford/Fairhaven has a Boston accent either.

It's only when I go someplace else, they think I'm from Boston. In Boston, they tell me I sound like a New Yorker. We get very picky about these local accents.

My own personal hang-up is the word, scallop. That's scall-up (like CALL me UP), not scal (rhymes with Al)-up. I even have a dictionary from the thirties which spells the word, scollup.

Since the Greater New Bedford area was the Scallop Capital of the U.S., I feel it is my duty to teach the world how to say the word.

My second peeve is quahaug. That's co-hog to the rest of the world.

I lived in Boston. I know Quahaug!
(I doubt I could spell it without your help, tho)

I didn't know that just up the road, in New Bedford, the court stenos would get the accent wrong and actually pass the misspronounciation of surnames of witnesses down thru the ages to us even now!
Of course, I'm not sure of the citizenship of the stenos.

Kat, it doesn't matter the nationality or even the accent spoken by the stenographers. They're simply recording what they hear.

In Fairhaven we have several Haywards, including a father and son who both serve on the town's Planning Board. Many folks, including Haywards themselves, tend to pronounce it more like Haywood. Years ago, when I first had to put their names into writing, I had to check the street directory to see how the name was spelled.

This brings me to a different point, though. Why didn't the court stenographers check the names against other court documents before typing the final transcripts? One would think they'd like it to be legally correct.

That's a good point, Fairhaven Guy. They really should have checked for name spellings. The only one I caught was Winward's name, which was in the transcript as Winwood. Is there another?

Annie White was the court recorder, but several people typed the transcript up. I think there were three men. Their names are in Hoffman's "Yesterday in Old Fall River". They wanted the transcript done so fast, someone would run Annie White's notes over to the typists right away. I believe someone read the notes to the typists as they typed.

Quite a few times I'll read in a transcript of a witness or one of the attorneys speaking what seems to be incorrect English, and I thought, "Wow! You'd think Knowlton would be more educated than that." Since then I've learned that when you come across a sentence that you wouldn't say like that, it is how they commonly spoke in that area in 1892.

I think the "Cape Cod" accent is different from the Fall River accent. (The "Cape Cod accent" I think is like JFK talked: Cuber, yay-es for 'yes' ...)

Michael Martins has a beautiful accent - he'll change an "r" to an "ah". Is his the 'typical' Fall River accent? I've heard it from others there. Then again, I've heard very heavy accents that I actually could not make out some of the words.

Then there is a "Boston accent" - different from Cape Cod. Is that a blend of Cape Cod and like Fall River?

I've heard a gorgeous accent in part of Fairhaven that was very near a brogue, then someone in Marion with hardly an accent at all. I love all the accents.

Of course, I have no accent coming from Michigan. But when I've talked to people from other parts of the country - Georgia, Massachusetts, etc., - I'll ask them if they think I have an accent. And they all say yes (in their accent).

That sentence about pahking a cah in Havahd yahd is a standard one used to illustrate the New England or Boston accent.

When they made Gone with the Wind, the actors had a speech coach because they all had to talk Southern. (Leslie Howard must have not attended those ...) Their tutor had them use: "Ah can't affohd a foh doh Fohd" (I can't afford a four-door Ford).

I think it was Burt's trial, wasn't it? New Bedford.
I agree it's what they hear and it's typed that way. But I think it involves their guessing at what they hear and writing it as it sounded because they weren't familiar with the accent obvioulsy, nor familiar with the name. If it was a local name heard lots in New Bedford, then they'd know how to spell it probably. That's what I meant.
I think there are questioned spellings of Thomas Bowles, Bolles/Boulds etc. and Petty/ Pettey among others..how about de Rosia/Derossier?

I don't know if these were mispelled due to accents, however. The Winward/Windwood seems like a typically good example!

Kat @ Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:31 am wrote:how about de Rosia/Derossier?

Kat, the current New Bedford area phone book lists the following names:

Darocha
Da Rosa
Darosa
Daroza

Derocha
Deroches
Derosa
De Rose
Derosier
Derosiers

Desrochers
Desroches
Des Roches
Desrosiers
Des Rosiers

but neither of the two spellings you posted!

Here's something to make you think:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/shorthand.htm

I hadn't even stopped to think that they were not transcribing from a machine, they were probably transcribing hand-written chicken scratches.

I learned Gregg back in 1969-70 and couldn't even read my own notes, much less someone else's.

It may be a good thing not to hear Lizzie speak,
may change everything. I have been a big fan of
Dorothy Parker, even go on the walking tours in NYC and other events, but when I heard her speaking on a tape someone had, it shocked me.
I was expecting a melodious thoughtful voice that
reflected her writings. Instead it was a gravely deep and heavily inflected NY accent and very harsh sounding. I would be crushed if I heard Lizze had a horrible voice too.

If you think her voice sounds bad you ought to hear mine. My customers say I sound like a cold blooded killer on the phone. I have to have my sister record messages on my answering machine so I don't scare people off. Bummer.

-1bigsteve (o:

I hadn't thought of that but you're absolutely right about Dorothy Parker, Nancie. An ill and bitter wind, that voice - most definitely! But yaknow...if you think about it, that does sound a bit like the "Constant Reader" who once reviewed a book by A. A. Milne (think Winnie the Pooh here) as follows:

"Tonstant Weader fwowed up!"

(I suspect Ed Radin caught her on a good day!)

For those who've not heard Mrs. Parker as yet, visit http://www.dorothyparkernyc.com/dotaudio.htm