Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Is it true that Lizzie and Emma used the guest room as their sitting room? It seems I recall someone saying that they did indeed bring up their guests to the guest room and entertain them there. That just strikes me as rather odd. I've been up in that guest room and it's not that big and there doesn't seem to be much to sit on other than the bed. I do think at one time there may have been a chair up there. Why did they use that room? Did they want to be that far away from Andrew and Abby? It's like Lizzie and Emma wanted to create their own separate world on their side of the house. More signs this was a deeply troubled home.

I have never heard they used the guest room for their visitors, but it would make sense. If they wanted to keep away from abby and andrew, they would want to find somewhere in the house to have privacy,after all, they did use the back stairs, and took thier meals sepearte from them.

I know I read the same thing...I believe in "A Private Disgrace..." Now, I'm not sure where she got that information, but I did indeed see it too.

Ther source of that is probably Alice Russell. From her inquest testimony (page 146) she being questioned on her visits to the house:

"Q. Where did you usually see them?
A. Up stairs, what they used for a sitting room usually.
Q. Which room was that?
A. What they call the guest chamber.
Q. It was used as a sitting room?
A. Generally, for them.
Q. Who used that as a sitting room?
A. The two girls.
Q. Was that where they usually sat when they were at home?
A. I think so.
Q. That is, so far as you know?
A. So far as I know."

She repeats the same at the Preliminary hearing (p292+):

"Q. Where did you usually see the girls?
A. Up stairs.
Q. Where up stairs?
A. In what we call the guest chamber.
Q. There was a bed in it?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. When you made calls, you called on them there in the guest room?
A. Yes Sir; that was their sitting room.
Q. The sitting room used by Lizzie and Emma?
A. I think so.
Q. So far as you had the opportunity of seeing?
A. Yes Sir."

She repeats a smaller version at the trial.

There were at least 2 chairs in the guest room at the time of Abby's murder.

There was what is described as a camp chair at the head of the bed and, I believe, a rocking chair beside the bureau. They do not appear in any of the photographs.

Since the room also contained the sewing machine there may have been a separate chair for that.

I think that there were three chairs in the guest room if I recall correctly; the camp chair, a rocking chair and a cane seated chair by the rocker.

Yes, found this in the Preliminary, Volume 2, Dr. Dolan on the stand, pg. 198:

Q. Whether there was a chair at the end of the bureau between the bureau and the window, when you saw that room the first time?
A. I think there was a cane seated chair.
Q. Was there any chair near it?
A. I could not tell you.
Q. Was this a chair with ordinary legs, or legs with a rocker?
A. That I would not say.
Q. You do not recollect whether it was a sewing chair, or not?
A. No Sir.
Q. Do you remember any work basket being there?
A. Yes Sir, immediately in front of this chair.
Q. What was this work basket resting on?
A. On the floor---- no, I think it was a rocking chair up against the bureau, and then the basket was sitting on the other ordinary cane seated chair, opposite.
Q. You mean the rocking chair was up against the bureau at the end of it, between that and the window, in that space?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. The other chair was on the other side of the window in front of it, having the work basket on it?
A. Yes Sir, and the sewing machine behind it.

So, besides using the bed as a form of sofa, there was a collection of chairs to choose from.

I have always thought it was an odd place to receive guests.... Did they take refreshments up there and serve tea? One has to imagine they did.

I can count on both hands the times people (other than the kids having friends over for the night) have been to the second or third floor of my home.

Of course I like to show my guests into the salon, it is closer to the front door....

Snokkums, the girls used the front stairs.
There's some question as to whether they ever used the back stairs.
Bridget says maybe a couple of times she saw one or other of the girls coming down the back stairs and it was implied thru questioning that they could therefore pass thru Andrew's bedroom.
But she probably saw them coming down from the attic where things were stored.
The door between the bedroom of Andrew and Lizzie was locked and hooked.

The more I think about it the more I realize that that house was always segregated. Since it was built. Until it became a B&B.
Of course, we're not sure when the Bordens began locking their rooms against each other.

That's where they had their dresses fitted too, wasn't it?

I thought I read somewhere where they always used the back stairs as to avoid abby and andrew.I guess I read it wrong I know they took meals separate from them.

But I wonder if they did take tea upstairs too. Interesting thought.

Yes it was a sewing room I think.

It was said that when they were working on a sewing project, if Uncle John came he then stayed in the attic.
I always figured they might hear him come and say Quick- throw some sewing stuff around the room and he won't stay in the guest room!

Looks like the sitting room was sort of a "Ladies only club." I say that because last night I started to read on-line some of Edmund Pearson's book. He mentioned on pg 9 that as far as guests went Lizzie and Emma were entertaining "exclusively ladies." Now, I don't know what his source is for that comment but it does look like by at least around 1890-1892, Lizzie and Emma were only letting in only women to go upstairs. Which seems about right. I can't imagine them bringing up a guy to the sitting room. They may have given up on male callers by this time.

I've always thought they used the room for their "girl friends." A place where they could chat and gossip about more frivolous things. Who's wearing what? Who's dating whom? If only those walls could talk.

In some book, it makes mention of Lizzie taking care of the front parlour as well. This would be the place where formal or co-ed entertaining would take place.

It's like the ol' Cindy Lauper song--The girls just want to have fun!

Meeting with suitors should have taken place in the parlour, but did it?
It was Emma's testimony that said she took care of the parlour- er- she AND her sister, sometimes.

Emma
inquest
108, 109
Q. Did you have, yourself, any particular duty in connection with the house?
A. Some things I always did.
Q. What were they?
A. I always took charge of the parlor, my sister and I, we always took charge of the guest chamber and our own rooms.
Q. That is, you and your sister did that?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Not your separate duty, but yours and hers?
A. I did most of it, sometimes she assisted.
Q. Did your mother never have charge of the guest chamber?
A. I did not know that she ever did. When I was home I dont think she ever did.

nbcatlover @ Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:33 pm wrote:I've always thought they used the room for their "girl friends." A place where they could chat and gossip about more frivolous things. Who's wearing what? Who's dating whom? If only those walls could talk.

In some book, it makes mention of Lizzie taking care of the front parlour as well. This would be the place where formal or co-ed entertaining would take place.

It's like the ol' Cindy Lauper song--The girls just want to have fun!

If Lizzie was doing any co-ed entertaining. We don't know for sure what Lizzie was doing with the parlour if anything