Lizzie Borden Society Forum

There were "red hat" ladies going in the front door.

For a minute, I thought I saw Lizzie.

The sidewalk is new....

Here are more taken today. My photos load too large to submit them all as attachments.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a343/ ... 0_0333.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a343/ ... 0_0341.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a343/ ... 0_0342.jpg

The house is set at the slight bend in the street which makes it visible from a large area:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a343/ ... 0_0352.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a343/ ... 0_0347.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a343/ ... 0_0348.jpg

This was taken from Spring St. near St. Mary's Church:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a343/ ... 0_0361.jpg

Lovely pictures Cynthia. Thanks for sharing.

Some of you may already know this...by using the 'paint' program in Windows, you can easily reduce the size of your pictures. Then when you upload them to photobucket not only do they upload faster, but you can click on the IMG link, click copy, then paste it into your 'reply' message. Doing this will post the actual pictures in the forum verses posting a link.


Tracy...

Thank you for sharing the pictures. I am glad to see the barn is almost completed. The house is looking good! I wonder what Lizzie would think if she saw it today?

Wow, thanks, theebmonique! Now I can be a picture demon!!!

This is really exciting, Tracy!

nbcatlover @ Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:25 pm wrote:The sidewalk is new....

The cobblestones are gone!

The barn looks great!

Thanks for the pics Cynthia!

I had mixed feelings about the removal of the cobblestones, because they gave it an authentic period feel.

However, I talked to some of the "neighbors" from the apartment complex next door while I was taking photos. They are thrilled that they have been removed! Most of them are elderly, and several of them had fallen or had near falls on the cobblestones.

They seem to feel they can walk more safely in the neighborhood now that they are gone. It just makes the point that the Borden house today, like in 1892, is part of a real neighborhood and not a spot developed just for tourist.

I stumbled there myself before.
I think they saved them out from what I hear.

Great pictures, thanks!

What kind of shop is in the old Kelly house next door?

Thanks Cynthia,
These are great photos!! I love photo # 100_0346
This would have been the view that Mrs. Chuchill would have seen (or close to it)
Very interesting

stuartwsa--it seems to be a beauty salon and the next door is a paint& decorating business.

Nice photos Cynthia, it looks like you picked a nice day to take them. I'm starting to like the barn . I wasn't sure at first but now it seems as if it belongs there.

I liked the cobblestones too but they can get slippery when wet.

In an Herald News article dated 6-29-2003 this paragraph mentions cobblestones:

"With an interest in protecting the city’s history, [Mayor] Lambert said the creation of a Victorian district that would encompass a several-block area of Rock Street has been on the drawing board for some time. Working with the Historical Society to collect pieces of the past, Lambert said he pictures cobblestone sidewalks underfoot and gas lamps lining the street of historically appropriate homes and businesses."

Save those cobblestones Lee-ann!

http://www.heraldnews.com/site/news.cfm ... 9784&rfi=6

Was the sidewalk cobblestone in 1892? From the few photos we have it's hard to tell but it doesn't look like cobblestone to me.

We have cobblestone streets in part of New Bedford's downtown. I can't tell you the number of pairs of shoe (heels) I've wrecked on them over the years. But they do create "atmosphere" when it is in a non-residential area.

If, like the Borden house, you are bordering senior housing, maybe it's not so great.

Great pics, Cynthia, thank you for sharing them with us! It would be too much to ask for, but, wouldn't it be cool if they brought the Kelly house back to what it looked like in Lizzie's day?

Ad--when I was taking these pictures, I really did wonder what the Churchills could see that day, and what they could observe and hear from the different floors of their home on a daily basis. With windows open in the summertime, I would think they might know an awful lot about the Bordens.

I don't think their house was this far away:


From a second floor level, they could probably see into Emma's room and the guest room with the shutters open. This is especially true of the guest room if the front window was also unshuttered and letting in more light:

Cynthia,
Was that tree there or is it younger? Was there a tree there at the time? If there was it would have been in full leaf and blocking a considerable amount of view.

Gramma

Just for the record, the rectangular stone pavers like the ones used in the streets of downtown New Bedford are "Belgian blocks" or paving blocks, not cobblestones. Cobblestones are naturally shaped rounded stones of varying sizes. Real cobblestone streets have a much more irregular surface and are horribly bumpy to ride on. But they were better than mud, I guess.

Oh, and I doubt pavers or cobbles were used regularly on sidewalks. Sidewalks were slates, flagstone or brick if they were paved. (New Bedford has this right.)

Thanks, Cynthia, for the info on the Kelly house. Keep up the great work with the wonderful photos. You are the Fall River 'eyes and ears', and we at the forum live vicariously through you!
Stuart.

Didn't they also use the ballast's from ships to pave the streets in New England at one time?

You are right, Allen, they did!
Boston and Salem were a couple of the places that took place. I would imagine most seaports had that advantage.

Gramma

FairhavenGuy @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:36 pm wrote:Just for the record, the rectangular stone pavers like the ones used in the streets of downtown New Bedford are "Belgian blocks" or paving blocks, not cobblestones. Cobblestones are naturally shaped rounded stones of varying sizes. Real cobblestone streets have a much more irregular surface and are horribly bumpy to ride on. But they were better than mud, I guess.

Oh, and I doubt pavers or cobbles were used regularly on sidewalks. Sidewalks were slates, flagstone or brick if they were paved. (New Bedford has this right.)

These are what I call Cobblestones which were at the bottom of the driveway and part of the sidewalk area by #92 Second Street, Fall River, as late as August 3rd, 2005.
They were definitely rounded- maybe from wear.
Stef took this picture.

I can't really tell from the angle of the photo, Kat, but here's an illustration of what I mean.

Didn't get this one, Kat. But I got yours and Cynthia's.

Are the "stones" in the B&B Cobblestones photo the
original stone walk of Lizzie's day?

It looks in old pictures like there was a sidewalk and a dirt road with a tree growing in it.
Morse says he thinks it was macadan, but the pictures of the day don't quite look like it.
I think the cobblestones predated the pictures, so that maybe as the sidewalks wore away the cobblestones were exposed as we moved into more modern times.
Therefore, a flat sidewalk might be more original-looking to Lizzie's day.
It's just my opinion from looking at the old pictures of 1892/1893.
~~~~~~

Go to the Privy and I will hopefully show you all how to attach and upload pictures on this site without going outside the address here.

Thanks, Kat.

It only took eleven edits to finally get it right. I was copying the file incorrectly.





And this only only took one edit. . .

Chris,
Thank you for all your valient efforts! I got the pic now and can see what you were trying to say.

Gramma

You now officially hold the record for edits, Christopher!
I love it- it's not me!

Here's the tree-in-the-road picture. Seems like sidewalk and dirt road?

Now I am glad that I postponed my vacation. I was hoping that by when I go there again that the barn would be rebuilt and that the trees, plants and the rest of the yard would be redone to be as they as they were in 1892. What I kind of expected when I visited there in 2004, was for the street to be much as it was in 1892. I knew that the Churchill and Bowen houses were gone but other than that I expected the street to look quite the same. I didn't know that the street had changed so much in 100 years. I especially had'nt expected that the downtown would have expanded into the area where the Lizzie house is.

I don't know when Pear season is, except that they are ready in August. I would like to eat pears in the barn. It should take me about five to twenty minutes.

From the looks of the pictures, the rear entrance to the cellar has been rebuilt as well.

In that latest broadcast of the Haunted New England they showed those paver stones- a really good view of them. Still am not sure what they are called.