Lizzie Borden Society Forum

It looks as if Mr. Robert Dube, the current owner of Maplecroft, is up to his tricks again. While eating my bowl of Spaghettio's (wife has hair appt., i'm in charge of supper) & reading today's Fall River Herald News, I noticed the attached legal announcment. it looks as if Mr. dube is requesting a varience to divide his proprerty into 2 lots. One leaving the existing Maplecroft on it & the other lot to convert the existing "carriage house" into a single family residence. most likely a raised ranch. Like Fall River needs another raised ranch. Especially on the French st. lot. This Zoning Board meeting should be a lively event. I'm going to try to attend to get the scuttlebut if I'm not busy that day. i'll keep you all informed. Mark

Oh no, not again! I wish he'd have offered the property for a more reasonable selling price & sold to someone who wants to maintain the historical integrity.

Thanks for keeping us posted tho, Mark.

I *heard* a rumor that he had quietly withdrawn the first time and that he might quietly make the same proposal again...

Yes, thanks Mark.

Oh no, say it isn't so. I hope the neighbors turn out in force.

June 17th is only 2 weeks away!

Thanks Mark for keeping us up-dated. We all appreciate your local knowledge and reports.

Well I scooped the Herald News by a day. Heres the link to their story: http://www.heraldnews.com/site/news.cfm ... 9784&rfi=6

Yes you did!

I got that same link in my google news alerts!

I snickered when I thought of knowing it sooner!

Thank You!

Trying an experiment here...

OT, but in the same ballpark.

These sentences were contained in a September 1893 article in the NY Times. The article covered the Borden "girls" move from 92 Second Street to Maplecroft. Here they are talking about 92 Second:

"Yesterday afternoon the house was locked. A rumor prevails here that, rather than let it continue as an object of curiosity to the idle and the morbid, the Borden girls will have it destroyed and erect on its site an office building. "

Here we are 111 years later still wondering if the B&B is going to make it. And now we got Maplecroft to sweat out again.

Hey, wait a minute, are we all idle and morbid?

UPDATE!
The varience that Mr. Dube requested was quickly REJECTED. i tried to post a link to the story in the Fall River Herald but I couldn't find one listed.

Thanks for the good news Mark !

Tracy...

Excellent! Of course, I do feel sorry for him (in a way) that he needs a smaller place, STILL, why not be practical & lower the selling price a tad? Surely even if he sells on par to the going cost for similar homes in the area he'll be making a ton of profit on his initial investment. More than enough for a nice condo or something with cash to spare...

I think one of the lawyers for an abbutter put it best when he said if the varience were granted, you would see 2 For Sale signs posted!
Believe it or not, he only paid $60,000 for that house. I guess that you can't blame him for asking over $700,000 for it. The real estate market around here is outrageous! The realators go in & price everything 3 times more then what its worth then that drives the whole market up! Condo's going for $180,000. CONDOS!! not full size houses. Condos. For the condition that Maplecroft is in & the location, it isn't worth more then $400,000 tops!

Ah, but it's Maplecroft. . . and that allows a realtor to tack another $300,000 on.

That's gotta be a royale pain in the _ss to have people drive by your house at all hours & sit on your front porch & take pictures and the like. The house is zoned as a Bed & Breakfast but I guess that it would take a ton of clams to convert it over. I think the city of Fall River would make a wise investment in the city's tourism revenue if they would offer Mr. D $550,000 for it & use it as just that, a B&B. Stop hiding from the fact that someone was brutally hacked to death in our quaint little town. Exploit the hell out of it. Theres money to be made! look at salem ,Massachusetts. They finally embraced the fact that many "witches" were wrongfully hung in their quaint little town, now they make a ton of cash every year from it. It's only wrong if it's not tastefully done. Thans my opinion. What's yours?

I think Fall River has been promoting Lizzie, based on the Fall River literature I have here at the Fairhaven Visitors Center. The only thing they haven't tied her in with is Battleship Cove. My visit to 92 Second Street a few years ago was with then Fall River Tourism Director John Gibbons and then New Bedford Tourism Director Ed Camara. (Gosh, I've outlasted the two of them. . .)

You can't compare Salem, though. The witches had a two-hundred year head start on Lizzie and they're much more a part of popular culture.

Although there are gawkers, sure, the Lizzie Borden connection does increase Maplecroft's value. It could be a B&B, a museum, a commercial "haunted house" type attraction. Or it could be the private home of somebody who likes the idea of living in the home once owned by Lizzie.

If I can't go inside, I'd sure like to see floorplans.
Hint Hint

I am afraid that floorplans would only be a tease for me. I WANNA GO INSIDE !

Tracy...

i was in maplecroft during the '92 conference. the owner opened it up and charged $10 to tour the house. little did he know there are those who would have paid much more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it is quite a beautiful home but the thing that struck me most about it was this: upstairs, lizzie had winter and summer bedrooms with a library in between. on the other side was a very small bedroom that was emma's. even in the new house and grand space, emma planted herself smack dap in the middle of lizzie.
we met a very nice local couple who owned and had restored a victorian house a few blocks away. they had come on the tour to see another example of house. they had no interest in lizzie borden. they very kindly took us over to their house and showed it to us and gave us a lovely tour of the neighborhood.
did any one else get to go to maplecroft then???

Wow!
Did you see all the floors?
How did the French Street property compare to the other? That'sneat!

dear kat,
if you mean how did it compare to the other "hill" property....its difficult to say. this couple was doing a very careful restoration of a victorian house and it was quite beautiful but comparable in size to maplecroft. if you mean how did it compare to 2nd street, well, of course it was grander but mostly i was struck with how comfortable it seemed. most of the rooms were light and airy and high ceilinged. the owner (i can't remember now if it was dube or silva...though i think it was silva) was renovating so it was very messy and there was at least one teenager in the family. i really liked the large kitchen and the porch off it.
i visited the 2nd street house in 2002 and was astonished at how comfortable it was. and sturdy! not the tiny claustrophobic place that it is always represented to be...certainly not luxurious but solid.

Yes, I meant the difference to another house on The Hill. Thanks!
That's cool you could compare, even if there was renovation.

You know, those two houses, Second Street and French Street were similar in price?
I think Lizzie got pretty much the same house, worth-wise.

Tina-Kate @ Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:13 pm wrote:Oh no, not again! I wish he'd have offered the property for a more reasonable selling price & sold to someone who wants to maintain the historical integrity.

Thanks for keeping us posted tho, Mark.

Yes, thank you for keeping us up to date on this. I agree with you, Tina-Kate... It is so unfortunate that he keeps doing this to all those who are interested in the Lizzie Borden story. I know that it is his property, but I wish that he would sell at a lower price to someone that would preserve the history of the house.

I know this must have been asked and answered many times, so please forgive me, but did this gentleman know that it was part of history/the Lizzie Borden story? Thank you!


Sue

One can know about a house's history and yet not understand what it's like to actually own or live in a place like that.

Here in Fairhaven we have one homeowner who lives is a house that's important in Japanese/American history. The first Japanese person to live in America lived there. Over the years, she's had so many Japanese tourists crossing her yard and even peeking into her windows that she put up a big fence and asked the Office of Tourism to remove the home's address from its materials. (On Saturday I had to tell a Japanese film producer that he'd have to sneak around that neighborhood and peek at the house from afar.)

On the other hand, the "Delano Homestead," built by FDR's great-grandfather, is now a B&B with the owner cashing in on the fact that a U.S. President was a frequent visitor.

In neither case is living in an especially historic house "normal." Some people can deal with it. Others can't.

HI Sue!

Southcoast Today, 9-3-98, excerpt:

"'Lizbeth,' as she re-christened herself, resided there for about three decades. 'I think she lived a very peaceful life. She was happy,' said Mr. Dube.

This dark-haired, fiftyish-looking gentleman, formerly of Dartmouth, told me he purchased Lizzie's post-acquittal abode, which she dubbed Maplecroft, in 1980 because he wanted to own a historic property. He's apparently the third master of the house, located at 306 French St. in Fall River, since Lizzie died in one of its second-floor bedrooms on June 2, 1927.

For 18 years, it's been a private dwelling for him and his family; in early August, though, he threw open its doors to a curious world as Maplecroft Bed & Breakfast and Museum. For $200 a night, you can dream where Lizzie dreamed, putter around where Lizzie puttered around and even take a bubble bath in what was apparently Lizzie's tub.

Or you can take a guided tour, which will cost you just a couple of bucks. (Or you can be like me -- write for a newspaper and weasel a tour for free.)

Most likely, as an added bonus, you'll get the chance to meet the warm, yet somewhat enigmatic Mr. Dube, who defends Lizzie as though she were a member of his family.
'She was innocent,' he said firmly. 'She was a victim of poor police work and an overzealous prosecution effort.'"

--Since this time Mr. Dube has had his health issues and some frustrations with his proposed changes being blocked.

Actually, Lizzie and Emma bought the house and then Lizzie began buying adjacent property, moving a house and putting up a garage and building fences and hedges. I think she created some ill-will amongst her near neighbors but she didn't care. Maybe it's a Fall River thing?

I've got to say the same thing I posted on the other maplecroft thread. I feel so much of the frustration that it seems so many of you feel. I pray that whoever comes to own this home, restores it to it's grandeur and allows it to be available to the public in some small way. Hey, If I win the lottery, it will be me.