Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Hi all, my name is Richard and I live in Central New Jersey.

I am tossing a suggestion out here as a preliminary testing of the waters to see if people response positively. Having recently come into posession of a digital camera and a tripod, I am ready to embark on some indy filmmaking ventures and was looking for interesting topics. Of course Lizzie Borden was the first topic that sprang into my mind. It occured to me that there has been a relatively sparsness of Lizzie documentaries (unlike topics like Jack the Ripper and the Titanic for example) and all the television stuff I've seen emphasizes the sensationalism of the murder, etc. There has been no "Ken Burns-like" documentary that does Lizzie dignity and historical accuracy. The Elizabeth Montgomery movie is about 20% inaccurate and unavailable, and all the shows like Histories Mysteries and similar commecial shows always focus on the horror of the murder and the possible haunting of the house.

My goal is to make a film that has historical accuracy and respectful attention to detail. This has been brewing in my head for several years now ever since I stayed in the B&B in 2002.

I just finished a short documentary film about the ruins of the Bethlehem Steels works which is being received well and will be shown at a regional film festival next month. So I am on a documentary roll, so to speak. And Lizzie Borden, the Beth Steels works, and the other topics I've been tossing around (the history of the American Freak Show, H.P. Lovecraft and Providence) fits in well with the aura of Lizzie's story.

I've been talking to some potential backers who are interested, and who may be able to get some money across to make the film, but they want to see some preliminary work. To that end, I was thinking of doing a shorter film, much smaller in scope, that wold focus on the community of people who are fascinated by the Borden Murders and who would be willing to go on camera and discuss their fascination. This would be a film more about the "fan community" than the murders themselves, but I find the fact that so many dedicated and responsible people are keeping the torch of investigation alive with such passion is a story in itself.

I was wondering if anyone on this web site would be interested in helping out with such a film. I know there are some passionate Lizzie folks out there reading this and I extend the invitation to have them collaborate on this short film.

I can see some potential in this project. Perhaps a few of us can meet in Fall River, take the Lizzie tour together, and video tape some interviews where we discuss our fascination and passion about Lizzie. We can go to the grave site, pose in front of the house, and do our interviews right in the streets.

A few things I want to mention: This is NOT a commercial advertisment in anyway. I am just a Lizzie fan with a camera who is trying to put together some video material that does our community justice. I'm not sure if this web site has any policy that would be counter to what I am proposing, if so...please someone inform me what the protocols are.

I am not making any money off of this. but while this is not for profit, I do intend to use a small film project to interest financial backers for a much larger and more historical Lizzie Borden documentary.

Is anyone interested in discussing this? And someone please tell me if I am out of line here. I want to respect the integrity of this discussion board.

Welcome Richard!

Your idea is something that I have been kicking around as well. There is an interview film out there--Hash and Rehash--and it is pretty good. It is better the second time you see it, actually. Have your surveyed the films that exist? There are a lot of case-related documentaries in the can already, mostly sponsored by A&E, History Channel, and Discovery. They mostly follow the same format: case info with visuals, voice overs, talking heads, case info with visuals, talking heads, etc. etc. etc.

I think any filmmaker would have to be careful in making a community film so that the people interviewed do not come off as obsessive or nuts. In addition, the point of view of the documentary shouldn't mock the people in it. Hash and Rehash does that a lot. There are moments in that film that make me cringe---especially when I know that a lot of those people are experts and important to the study of the case.

You might contact Lee-ann at the Lizzie Borden B&B. She is most gracious and probably would make a great contact. Her story of buying the house and restoring it is a film in and of itself. She is a member here and might add her two cents to your discussion if you ask.

As far as being interested in historical accuracy---well, you have come to the right place for that!

Thanks for the supportive words, Stefani. I assure you that I would NOT want to make anyone in the community look like an oddball. My intention in making the film would be to do just the opposite, to show people who are passionate about American history, not just an unsolved mystery. There is a lot of haunting beauty in studying Lizzie's life and times. I feel compelled to somehow capture that in a film.

Of course I toyed with the idea of filming the house, but I suspect that would involve some formal financial settlement with the current owners. That's something I'd like to build up to, if this initial smaller project works out well. I've hesitated to contact them until I have some official proposals drawn up.

I didn't know about Hash and Rehash. I'll have to get a copy of it.

I haven't seen it yet, but I would like to make a film that presents the Lizzie community with a good deal of dignity. Everything I've read on this forum over the last two years suggests a high level of dedication and passion from the contributing members. I also think a "fan film" would be a fun group project.

I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole. It seems like asking for money for someone's vanity publication. It is not commercially salable.
I wonder how many of the Lizzie books were commercially salable? Certainly a famous author like Pearson, Lincoln, etc would be bankable.

The main reason why I posted here was to just find out if anyone was interested in being interviewed for a small indy project, a non for profit film that would be an experiment just to see how it would turn out.

But I do think a much larger, more formal documentary about Lizzie Borden could be sellable. However, that's way down the road.

Richard @ Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:05 pm wrote:The main reason why I posted here was to just find out if anyone was interested in being interviewed for a small indy project, a non for profit film that would be an experiment just to see how it would turn out.

But I do think a much larger, more formal documentary about Lizzie Borden could be sellable. However, that's way down the road.

Of course it could be. Recent specials have aired on various cable networks.

I have always wanted to see one of those 'we present the fact' and the audience votes by telephone things about Lizzie.....

It would be interesting to see what conclusions people with little or no experience in the case would draw.

I'm interested in the Bethlehem Steel documentary!

Any chance you'll do something with coal mining?


Lynn

Wordweaver @ Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:40 pm wrote:I'm interested in the Bethlehem Steel documentary!

Any chance you'll do something with coal mining?

Lynn

I read a magazine last week; it said the high price of oil is making coal competitive again. You may get your wish on Broadcast TV.

Richard, I just saw your documentary on Bethlehem Steel, Almost Gone. I didn't know what to expect, and thought it was going to be a regular narrated history of the mills. Instead, I was treated to a visual and aural experience that was stunning. Without words, you told the story of this once important industry, and made me feel both awe at the grandeur that once was, and a sadness at what is now no more.

The photography was amazing!

One question: what is a welfare room? I couldn't figure out what those hainging things were.

Kudos to you! I hope you win awards and recognition with this work of art.

Dr. Ravi Batra, the Econmics Professor as SMU, wrote a book in 1993 called "The Myth of Free Trade". It analyzes the decay of the country and suggests remedies to cure these evils.
This 1993 book explains why global warming is caused by global trade.

Thanks for the book title, Ray. I would like to read that very much.

And Stefani, thanks for the overwhelming compliment! The photography in the film was the work of my co-director Marc Reed.

I've been doing a lot of reading about the textile industry in Fall River and was just starting to get curious about what remains of those structures. Of course, if I do make my Lizzie documentary, I want to include something about the industrial history of the town.

An excellent book to get hold of (maybe thru the library?) is "Fall River - a Pictorial History" by Judith A. Boss - c. 1982. I think they only did 3,000 copies. It's out of print but not impossible to find. I got mine on eBay for $55.

It takes Fall River one chunk of time per chapter, telling its story with short but rich text, and plenty of photos. It may be one of the most concise and easily learned histories of FR.

Arthur Phillips' history of Fall River, published post-humously in 1944, can be found on the web at no cost. It's longer, and it's thought that someone else finished the book after Phillips died. (Phillips was working for Andrew Jennings at the time of Lizzie's trial.)

"Victorian Vistas" comes in 3 volumes, which are out of print and a few years ago were selling for about $150 a set. Big, fat thick books, tho, that would take a while to read, if you found them. They are comprised of some newspaper articles and full of photos.

The FRHS may have some books on FR history for sale. They had a small, softcover book(let) all on the Granite Block fire (of 1928?). They had one on King Phillips' War (real early FR history). They may have others. I would ask.

The Library of Congress website has a lot of photos of Fall River.

The Keeley Library has some good stuff on their site.

I can't find the file I want right now, but there's a site about historical buildings in the U.S. that has quite a few of Fall River and Bristol County (the county Fall River is in).

Last summer, for the first time I went to the courthouse where Lizzie was tried. It is still all original. The courtroom she was tried in is still used today. I don't know if anyone has filmed the inside of that for a documentary before. That'd be new.

The churches in Fall River often have a historical book or booklet.

The library in Fall River is gorgeous inside, and the staff is very helpful.

I think it takes spending some real time in Fall River to get a feel of any sorts of it. At least, that's been my experience. Like, I really could not imagine the inside of the Borden house until I toured it. To see the mills that are still standing - and the downtown business district, with the Andrew J. Borden building on the corner of S. Main & Anawan (it's now called something else) - to cross the Taunton River - visit the town of Marion (you can see the site of Dr. Handy's cottage; a new house is on it now)- Fairhaven (the house Emma stayed at during the murders is still there)- New Bedford ...

The two houses owned by Wm. King Covell in Newport are still very much standing. (There's an article in one of the Hatchets I did called "Lizzie in Newport" that has photos of them.) Today they are both B & B's; one still owned by a descendant of the Covell family. Lizzie stayed at both. That's not been on a documentary before. The house owned by Charles J. Holmes, where a party was thrown for Lizzie the night of the acquittal, is still there on Pine Street. All these Lizzie sites have not been shown on a documentary before. Rebello's book is an excellent source for those.

There is so much that has been previously unexplored, that would be of tremendous interest. Best of luck - and have FUN!

Thanks Augusta! I knew if I asked around in this Forum, I would get enormous amounts of helpful info.

You're correct to point out that many aspects of Lizzie's life and Fall River history have eluded documentary filmmakers. My goal was to track down many locations, not just 92 Second St. And to put Lizzie in a strong cultural and historical context.