Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Last night on the seaon finale of Ghost Hunters, you know that show that did such a poor job on investigating 92 Second Street, they showed some pretty amazing evidence of paranormal activity.

They were at the Stanley Hotel, made famous by The Shining. They were there for two days, but most of the activity they caught on tape happened that first night while Jason was sleeping. They set the cameras up and around 5:30AM, the door to the closet in a room where there has been claims of this closet activity opened (we heard it but didn't see it) and a thick water tumbler on the bedside table next to the sleeping Jason broke. We heard that too, but while the table is in view on the camera you can't see the breaking.

All this noise woke up Jason and he went to the closet noting it was now open. He picked up the camera and went to the bedside table and showed the shattered glass. Then he set the camera on the very same bedside table and aimed it at the closet door and went back to sleep. Some time later the door to the closet is seen closing, apparently by itself, although the bottom of the door is hidden by the bed. The door even latches, which they show later, it doesn't do normally.

Anyway, it was pretty scary stuff. What I did like about the rest of the show is that they mostly debunked a lot of the other claims by visitors and workers there, including a shaking bed (the headboard is so loose that the wind can make it move, thereby making the bed shake).

Because the show seemed so even handed, it made the "evidence" seem all the more real. Do you think this is just a scam? Or do you think think that they are really doing a scientific investigation and therefore when they record evidence it is real evidence?

Last season they were on the Queen Mary and caught the bedding being pulled off a bed with a camera that was set up to record any activity in the room. They thought they had something when the covers were indeed moved on the tape but then showed us how someone had crept in and turned the camera off, moved to the other side of the bed and moved the covers, and then the camera was stopped while the person moved out of sight and then it was turned on again. They when to great lengths to show the tampering. Which once again makes me think they are really looking to debunk. And adding credence to the evidence they get.

What say you? Even if you didn't see the show, do you believe in hauntings? Do you think we can catch it on film? And in this day and age of messing with images to fake people out, can we beleive ANYTHING we see that is not a personal experience?

I fogot to add that all of this seaon of this show is available for sale (season or individual episodes) on itunes. Sweet!

dont trust taps.... if you wanna see ghosts... go to the places in person, taps never gives whole stories and from what I hear does really crappy investigations.... taps sucks! :P

I don't get that channel.
But tonights' Most Haunted was great! Doors really seemed to be opening and closing on command!
Lots of Ghostly Sighs, too!

thats a very loud and entertaining show heheh. yea alot of stuff tends to move around on most haunted.... maybe its the psychic doing it with his mind? who knows.... Ive never seen tables slide across floors or doors open by themselves... I have heard sighs and been poked tho :)

Mr. Thibault was just in the video on TV tonight- "Haunted New England!"

Yeap he rules

He is thoroughly acknowledged with a big "Thanks" in Leonard Rebello's book: Lizzie Borden Past & Present.

Did you catch on Most Haunted what the psychic David Wells said about life after death? It was almost a throwaway line, but when Yevette said she wanted to gather evidence to show there was life after death, he said (and I paraphrase here) that the universe or powers that be won't allow us to know for sure that there is life after death becuase that would change the way we live here on earth. He said if there was absolute proof of ghosts and an afterlife that it would change everything about the way we live and we are here to search but not to know.

That is why they only get little pieces of "proof" and not full apparitions or appearances of the dead communicating with the living.

Now you could take this two ways: one is that this is a perfect explanation as to why nobody has perfect proof; that it is impossible to get because it won't happen according to the power(s) that be. The other way to take his statement is as a perfect excuse for why these shows don't get evidence. In other words, that idea validates both sides of the argument why we don't have proof---whether it is true or not! Pretty slick!

Just knowing for certain that the "powers that be" exist is probably sufficient reason to change the way we live. It sounds like a rather oily spin to me!

oops!

***that the universe or powers that be won't allow us to know for sure that there is life after death becuase that would change the way we live here on earth. He said if there was absolute proof of ghosts and an afterlife that it would change everything about the way we live and we are here to search but not to know. ***

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philosophically, i think there is something to this line of thinking -- not just in terms of talking about ghosts or afterlife -- but in general........all our unanswerable questions. anything we can prove, we can also disprove. ambiguity is everywhere. there is an intelligent purpose behind our limitations. there are boundaries in place for good reason. this is the stuff of all human study whether it is art, science, theology, etc.

i have the sense (that just deepens with age) that if the curtain were actually lifted on all this -- then its whole purpose would be ruined. i gather we are supposed to work with what we've got to the best of our ability and try to make something genuine. now, beyond that, i don't actually "know" anything -- but i know that no one else knows anything. some people are more gifted than others, but people pay a price for these natural gifts too. it's almost a toss-up, as to whether it is better to be blissfully ignorant or wise.

now this is really cryptic, but let me try it -- i think there is widespread, dominant misconception about who/what we are and where we are and what we are doing here. but again, this mystery is linked to the whole purpose, which is above and beyond us for good reasons.

this boundary between life and death is, for us, indisputably definite. yet it is also for us unbelievable and has ambiguous realities. there is a sense of "trickery" about it. think about it......we know about death, but something in us resists believing it.

i do think that 99.9% of people claiming communication with the other side are frauds. and i think that deceit is a huge part of humanity's overall makeup. to put it this way -- what would a genuine encounter with a ghost tell me? nothing, actually. i might put it to creative use, but no matter what, i'm stuck with questions i can hardly formulate for my whole life.

the existence of what we call "the supernatural" seems reasonable enough to me -- that it does exists, that is -- but we don't seem equipped with understanding of what that is. we should always question our motives and the motives of someone who claims knowledge, because that's where we'll find our most accurate information. this view is based on my observation along with what we call "intuition" -- but someone can create a theory to destroy this view, i'm sure.

Thank you for your thoughts Eugene. I am not a believer but that is because I haven't seen anything myself. I sometimes hope it is true, but then again, mostly don't wonder at all. The ghost shows I seem to be addicted to lately have got me thinking about it.

I think that we resist thinking about the inevitability of death because we can't comprehend ceasing to exist. We have all these thoughts and emotions and feel large inside our skins, and it seems so remarkable that we are alive. Our biology is so complicated and yet so fragile. So I wonder from time to time if it is true that energy is neither created or destroyed. And what that means to the life force.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

I did see the Ghosthunters Season Finale and I have mixed feelings about the authenticity of what was shown. I would have been more impressed had the entire door been in view, but it was eerie nontheless. I do think they hit on something when they mentioned the ground that the hotel was built on being composed of a high amount of quartz...think crystal radios...

I think the crew from Most Haunted takes a much more effective approach when they simply sit, wait and observe.

Tonight's Most Haunted was from 2005, but I'd not seen it. Stef turned me on to that show.
It was funny how the radio guys were so scared- they looked like children in the dark.

I heard the groan in Yvie's ear too!

The water faucet being turned on was good.
That happened in a place that I worked which was reputedly haunted.