Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Did any of you read my Whittling in this issue of "The Hatchet" about Andrew Borden? If so, what do you think of it?

I've always been a proponent of the rehabilitation of Andrew's character. I always thought he had been depicted as so black and white a character, that he has needed a balanced viewpoint. That is always welcome.
I suppose making him out to be human, and a product of his times, is not melodramatic enough for book authors.
A well-rounded assessment, thanks!

But- I also have a feeling that there was a seed in him somewhere that sparked the violence enacted upon him.

Denise - I always like your articles and look forward to them in every Hatchet issue. Your articles are always easy to read, very interesting and well researched.

I had earlier thought about doing an article on the good things we know about Andrew. Never got around to it and am glad that you did. I think it was an important piece - a piece that needed to be done.

He has been depicted as such a one-dimensional person: Scrooge. When I would come across something good about him, I would sit up and take notice.

I think Abby has been treated the same way: The Evil Stepmother. The only place I saw any 'evidence' of that was thru 'the girls' own words. Everyone else who said anything about her said good things and liked her. Someone started the rumor that she never went anywhere except to Bertie's house (her half-sister). As we now know, that was false.

There are a couple things you could have added in your article, but maybe you were not aware of them. One is that during the funeral procession, businessmen tipped their hats to Andrew's hearse. He had the respect of his fellow businessmen, and that may say a great deal.

I don't have the issue in front of me (just moved my office upstairs and everything's a mess), but the other might be his talk to Morse about wanting to leave the old folks' home, or old ladies' home, something in his will.

You shed welcome new light regarding the lock Andrew picked up. I had no idea that could have been the reason. At first I thought that might not fit, if the lock were "old" as it's been said, and if the door no longer existed. But there may have been other things that type of lock was used for. I thought that was a great piece of research!

I did not comment on your prior piece on Knowlton (I'm sorry) because I am researching him as well for another project. I did read it and thought you did a wonderful job on it. Good research!

I look forward to many more of your "Whittlings". They're gems.

Hi Denise -- I did comment briefly on your article in a previous thread praising it as "Denise Noe’s wonderfully balanced look at Andrew Borden’s character".

I have always felt Andrew deserved a more dimensional depiction other than the prevailing description of a of a tight-fisted puritan. I liked the way you showed how that legend was perpetrated by various authors and then went on to illustrate that there was more to the man than that.

I really did enjoy it.

It was well done, Denise. It's good to read articles that go beyond the standard one-dimension description of a person.

Andrew would have felt quite uncomfortable living on the "Hill" as the social scene was not to his liking. I believe his innate personality had much to do with the way he led his life. It wasn't all about money.

He was living his life, not Lizzie's. He certainly knew that they would be left financially secure upon his passing and therefore could live the way they wanted.

Harry @ Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:20 pm wrote:...
Andrew would have felt quite uncomfortable living on the "Hill" as the social scene was not to his liking. I believe his innate personality had much to do with the way he led his life. It wasn't all about money.

He was living his life, not Lizzie's. He certainly knew that they would be left financially secure upon his passing and therefore could live the way they wanted.

I suggest that a self-made man like Andrew would be looked down upon by those who had inherited wealth, then or now. In turn he would have regarded them as useless slugs who couldn't fend for themselves. "Put them in a forest and they would starve to death."
Carnot, the army engineer of the French Revolution (Audrey pls note) once wrote that he needed proof that none of his ancestors practiced a trade for three generations to be considered "noble" and able to get an appontment as an officer in the Royal French Army.

France had an army?

Audrey @ Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:21 pm wrote:France had an army?

Your slip is showing.

You are forgetting to act the part of a French woman, non pas?
Indefensible from historical fact.
Can you whistle "Sambre et Meuse"?

RayS @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:46 am wrote:

Audrey @ Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:21 pm wrote:France had an army?

Your slip is showing.

You are forgetting to act the part of a French woman, non pas?
Indefensible from historical fact.
Can you whistle "Sambre et Meuse"?

Ray...you are an expert on how a French woman is/should be ?


Tracy...

I can answer that...

No

theebmonique @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:24 pm wrote:Ray...you are an expert on how a French woman is/should be ?
Tracy...

Anyone with a knowledge of French would have corrected my mistake.
It is "n'est ce pas" not "non pas". It was my mistake, haven't used it for 30 some years.
I probably made another typing mistake.
And yes, I probably have better things to do.

Tracy....

It's OK. The old fool thinks he is can prove I am not really from France.

You see-- people judge others based on their own morals. Ray is obviously a dishonest person, therefore he thinks everyone else is too.

He is also financially disadvantaged and envious of those who are not.

Left to do as he wishes, and offend as he pleases on this forum is hugely satisfying to someone like him.

We are meant to ignore him and his mediocrity despite how personal, how hurtful or how damaging it may be to one's feelings.

He probably gets erections being so unkind and suspicious.... (I am joking!)

Audrey @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:49 pm wrote:Tracy....

It's OK. The old fool thinks he is can prove I am not really from France.

You see-- people judge others based on their own morals. Ray is obviously a dishonest person, therefore he thinks everyone else is too.

He is also financially disadvantaged and envious of those who are not.

Left to do as he wishes, and offend as he pleases on this forum is hugely satisfying to someone like him.

We are meant to ignore him and his mediocrity despite how personal, how hurtful or how damaging it may be to one's feelings.

He probably gets erections being so unkind and suspicious.... (I am joking!)

YES, keep on ignoring me, I like it a lot. But it does not cause any physical reactions. Aren't you mistaking me for Rush Limbough?

Why would someone pretend to be from France? (Not meant in a bad way.)

Audrey @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:49 pm wrote:Tracy....

It's OK. The old fool thinks he is can prove I am not really from France.

You see-- people judge others based on their own morals. Ray is obviously a dishonest person, therefore he thinks everyone else is too.

He is also financially disadvantaged and envious of those who are not.

Left to do as he wishes, and offend as he pleases on this forum is hugely satisfying to someone like him.

We are meant to ignore him and his mediocrity despite how personal, how hurtful or how damaging it may be to one's feelings.

He probably gets erections being so unkind and suspicious.... (I am joking!)

If I tell you I live in a "housing project" would that affect your opinion of me? Probably.
They do not allow residents to own a pet (cat or dog).

Great psychological insight, ma chere.