Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I'm an Innkeeper at an old Victorian Bed & Breakfast in Asheville N.C.
The House was built in the 1870's. I've been there a long time, But recently I noticed, that inside each one of the closets ( only 3 bedrooms even have closets, seems closets werent needed during that time )
There are old iron Hook & eye locks on the inside of each one.
The only explanation for this would be to lock yourself in the closet.
I wonder why ??
I also wonder if Lizzies house on 92 second street, or maplecroft had any of these locks inside the closets.
Any Ideas ???

Ooo that sounds weird, Matt!
I'm just trying to imagine that.
I have no idea why- maybe a safe place under Indian attack?

Back in the old days they did use large wardrobes as closets- maybe that is why some bedrooms don't have closets?
On the HGNetwork when they go house hunting in other countries, especially on islands, those bedroom only have wardrobes. This is just my opinion.

Many bedrooms were shared with siblings...perhaps it was a place to undress in privacy?

The house is post Civil War, no need to hide from Yankees. Are the hooks positioned so that a child could use them, low on the door, or are they positioned to prevent a child from using them?

They are right about Chest level, on me. I'm about 6 feet 3 inches tall.
So it would have to be for an Adult to use.

So, they were designed for an adult and more or less childproof. How large are the closets and what is the arrangement for hanging clothes? A small dressing room makes sense with a mirror on the door, provisions for hangers around (rather than across) the closet, and a relatively large space. The only other reason I can imagine is a place to hide. The house was built during Reconstruction, was the Underground Railroad still a reality at that time?

The closets are very small. I havent measured them, But I will make an educated Guess at about 4 feet wide and 3 foot deep. Seems to small for a " Changing Area " there are no mirrors on the inside of the doors & no rods for hanging any clothing. It just seems that the only explanation would be a hiding place, because of the locks. in fact even if it was for storage of Shoes or bedding, you would have to squeeze in.
It just seems creepy to me. As far as the Underground Railroad I'm not sure about it, in this area.
Maybe they were there for the Lady of the House to hide in, When the Drunken " Mister" was out of control?? or something more Sinister??

If they were specific to that house and household, there's probably some kind of a story involved! Is there any evidence of a way out of the closet other than the hooked door?

As Far as we know, most of all the structure is original.
There is no exit from the closets, except for the door.
There seems to be no evidence of any construction on the interior of the closets.
Unless at one time there may have been a secret passage or something.
When I get time I'm going down in the basement to look underneath the closet areas to see if there was possibly some other passage.

It could be that the hooks were never used and they were there as the result of left-over Civil War paranoia.

I can believe them on the outside of the closet, so small children wouldn't go inside and look around or mess things.
Could they be the result of some person's sense of humor?

Interesting!
Just a thought. If the house dates from the 1870's, it is early post Civil War era. Too late to be related to the underground railroad, but during reconstruction, the south was an unsettled place to be. After the ravages of war, survivors tried to rebuild as they were challenged by those folks wanting to take advantage of their misery (ie - carpetbaggers). This would also be the time of the rise of the KKK and counter groups. Do you know of a history of this type of activity in your area? The builder could have suffered loss of a home during the war, mistreatment by troops, etc. The need to have a "safe room" so to speak would be understood.
Have you done any research on the original owner?

There really does not seem to be a logical answer.

As a security measure they would be pretty lame-- I mean we all know what a hatchet is capable of!

About all a hook and eye would do is slow someone down if they were determined to open the closet door. A dead-bolt would be much more effective.

I'm trying to do some research on the House & its previous owners
As soon as I get any further information I will pass it on.
I cant help but get the creeps, especially when I'm in the House alone.
There is also a Rumor about a ghost ( Miss Emily )
She was the owner of the house from 1940-1983 Little is known about her
She was a very Prominant African American Woman. Neighbors that are still alive that knew Her said She was a Hermit, And rarely had any company. She lived all alone in the house from 1940-1983 at the time of her death.
Police reports state She was heading down to the basement to feed Her 2 cats, when She lost her footing on the stairs and fell to Her death.
Here's the weird part--When She was found almost 2 weeks later, She had a can of catfood still clutched in her hand. Her age was I think about 91.
I have been told by Guest that they have heard a Cat meowing in the bottom Suite, which was reportedly Her room. Of course we have no Cats at the B&B.
So go figure??
Could the iron locks have something to do with Her ?
I dont know, seems they were there before She was the Owner. ( We think )
Matt

Yooper @ Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:00 am wrote:About all a hook and eye would do is slow someone down if they were determined to open the closet door. A dead-bolt would be much more effective.

A thin blade could fit between any opening and lift up the hook.
There is a similar trick to open a chain lock.
It could be a sense of humor. Closet doors ofter have locks on the outside to prevent unwanted access by children. Now it that was the toilet a hook and eyelet would be obvious.

That's a good mystery, Matt.

I can see how you could open a hook and eye from the outside but how do you lock it from the outside? Is it rigged so that the hook falls down when the door is shut, the hook landing in the eye? Otherwise the hook is only useful if there is someone in the closet.

Could the closets have been used for going to the bathroom? The hook would provide privacy and a chamber pot would not occupy much room.

Hmmm
Good point Harry, I never thought about using it for a bathroom.
But Honestly, there really isint any room in there even to Squat,
But I guess for a Man to just pee standing ( Forgive me ) it would do. But it would seem impossible for a lady.

4 feet by 3 feet is big enough. Quite frankly, the privy pot was the first thing that crossed by head.

My father (who was born in 1910) had to share a double bed in an 8 x 10 room with 2 of his brothers until he left home to get married. Privacy was a luxury for some people. I live alone in the same size space that 9 people in my father's day lived in.

Have you ever been in an outhouse, or for that matter, a port-a-john? They are very small inside. (Also, don't smell too good.)

As I remember it from the 1940s, a "potty" (porcelain covered pot) was standard, and kept under the bed.
I wonder if they still make them? As joke items?
I remember one guy who used a miniature one as a beer mug. One day he broke up everyone when he put a hot dog in it!!!

Ray
I dont know if they still make Potty's, But I did read an article in Southern Living about a Lady who collected antique Potty's.
She actually used them as serving dishes at Dinner Parties.
I hope She never invites Me to Dinner.
Matt

I understand that in England they used chamber pots made out of china or porcelain. This led to that famous saying "that wouldn't hold any water like a cracked pot" EG a non-functioning thing. Now it means anything or person that isn't quite right.