Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Does anyone know what Bridget earned at the Borden household?
In other sources I read that the usual wages for a servant in that period would be around $4 per week. But that would mean that Bridget would have the same amount of money to spend as Lizzie, Emma, and Abby. If this was the case, I wouldn't wonder about the girls complaining that they were kept too short!
On the other hand, I can't imagine Andrew being really generous with wages for a servant, so it might have been considerably less. But then I don't think Bridget would have stayed in the Borden household for over 2 years. She may not have been the smartest, but I think she knew on which side her bread was buttered, and in those times it wouldn't have been hard for her to find another position.

Anyway, knowing what Bridget actually earned would be a great help!

Airmid.

I think she made better than most servants of her day, and she got half day on thursday and all day sunday off. Or so I read somewhere, don't know how true that is, she made better than most servants. I know at one time she had thought about leaving, but Abby convinced her to state, saying something to the effect of "I don't know what I'd do with out you." There again, don't know how true that is either.

Lincoln's book "A Private Disgrace" has this on Bridget's wages:

"Bridget considered herself luckily situated, despite the trying atmosphere of the house. She did not get two half-days off starting after dinner, like all her friends; she got all of Sunday, and Thursday from just before dinner, yet her wages were high, four dollars a week, paid only to cooks."

Lincoln, like Spiering, is the source for a lot of this type information. Brown's book says the average wage for a live-in maid in 1892 was $3.50 a week. None of these authors, at least to me, are the most trustworthy when it comes to facts since none cite any source.

And if you really want to go out on a limb the infamous Trickey-McHenry article mentions Bridget quitting for 3 days and the Borden's "hunting her up" and giving her a $5 a month raise to come back. Yeah, right and it will snow here today in South Carolina.

I seem toi remember someone saying $2.50 a week but I can't find a source for that number. The only figure we know for sure is that she received $3.00 a week while staying at the warden's house in New Bedford awaiting Lizzie's trial.

I remember reading somewhere that Bridget received $250 a year, about $5 a week.

Thanks guys, you've been really helpful!
My guess would be that she earned at the Bordens at least the same, and probably more than at the warden's house. In the Witness Statements it says that she only needed to do the cooking there, and that she didn't like the place because she didn't have enough to do. I got the impression also that it was not the place of her choice, and that she wasn't allowed to quit the job until the end of the trial. But then, at that moment finding another good job might not have been easy for her.
Sorry, I'm diverting again. Either way, $3 per weeks would still add up to over $150 a year, which isn't that much less than Lizzies and Emmas $200. Hmm, I realize now I have been taking the $200 allowance as a fact, but I see now that it might have been just gossip. Can any of you confirm this?

Snokkums, I read the same story somewhere too, but I can't remember where. Perhaps in one of the newspaper clippings?

Airmid.

Harry @ Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:13 am wrote:Lincoln's book "A Private Disgrace" has this on Bridget's wages:

"Bridget considered herself luckily situated, despite the trying atmosphere of the house. She did not get two half-days off starting after dinner, like all her friends; she got all of Sunday, and Thursday from just before dinner, yet her wages were high, four dollars a week, paid only to cooks."

Lincoln, like Spiering, is the source for a lot of this type information. Brown's book says the average wage for a live-in maid in 1892 was $3.50 a week. None of these authors, at least to me, are the most trustworthy when it comes to facts since none cite any source.

And if you really want to go out on a limb the infamous Trickey-McHenry article mentions Bridget quitting for 3 days and the Borden's "hunting her up" and giving her a $5 a month raise to come back. Yeah, right and it will snow here today in South Carolina.

I seem to remember someone saying $2.50 a week but I can't find a source for that number. The only figure we know for sure is that she received $3.00 a week while staying at the warden's house in New Bedford awaiting Lizzie's trial.

But Bridget did cook for the family, and did other tasks as well. She was reportedly liked by Abby, and seems to have been on good terms w/ Andy. I don't know how the daughters treated her.
(Because she would be fired if Andy didn't like her!)

RayS @ Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:46 pm wrote:

Harry @ Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:13 am wrote:Lincoln's book "A Private Disgrace" has this on Bridget's wages:

"Bridget considered herself luckily situated, despite the trying atmosphere of the house. She did not get two half-days off starting after dinner, like all her friends; she got all of Sunday, and Thursday from just before dinner, yet her wages were high, four dollars a week, paid only to cooks."

Lincoln, like Spiering, is the source for a lot of this type information. Brown's book says the average wage for a live-in maid in 1892 was $3.50 a week. None of these authors, at least to me, are the most trustworthy when it comes to facts since none cite any source.

And if you really want to go out on a limb the infamous Trickey-McHenry article mentions Bridget quitting for 3 days and the Borden's "hunting her up" and giving her a $5 a month raise to come back. Yeah, right and it will snow here today in South Carolina.

I seem to remember someone saying $2.50 a week but I can't find a source for that number. The only figure we know for sure is that she received $3.00 a week while staying at the warden's house in New Bedford awaiting Lizzie's trial.

But Bridget did cook for the family, and did other tasks as well. She was reportedly liked by Abby, and seems to have been on good terms w/ Andy. I don't know how the daughters treated her.
(Because she would be fired if Andy didn't like her!)

I don't agree. I think the girls and Abby had a say in who they liked or did not like as a maid. All those women against Father, he would have gone along with whomever they liked and trusted. They were the ones that spent most of the time with her. I think the women in the house surely had a say in that!

For once Ray S I have to agree with you.
Andrew must have liked Bridget, Because I beleive He ruled with an Iron Fist, and controlled most everything in the Household. If He wasent satisfied with Bridget , regardless of what the Girls thought, She certainly would have been put out. Seems Bridget was on good terms with everybody, and probably was a good cook. I just wonder who chose the menu, especially the Mutton for all those days.

I wonder how long the average term of employment for a maid was in those days? Bridget moved around quite a lot. She'd only been with the Bordens for two years and nine months when Andrew and Abby were killed.

According to her testimony at trial and at the Preliminary Hearing, her previous jobs in Fall River were on High Street (seven months) and on Highland Avenue (fifteen months). Before that, she spent one year in South Bethlehem, PA with the Smiley household and one year in Newport, RI at a hotel called the Perry House.

So, since her arrival in America, her longest stint in one household had been with the Borden family.

"Q. Did you have any trouble there in the family?
A. No, sir.
Q. Not at all?
A. No, sir.
Q. A pleasant place to live?
A. Yes, sir, I liked the place.
Q. And for aught you know, they liked you?
A. As far as I know, yes.
Q. Treated you well?
A. Yes, sir, they did." (Bridget Sullivan: Trial)

It does sound from this as though she suited them and they suited her.

That's pretty interesting that Bridget may have made a yearly wage close to what the girls and Abby got. Hmmm...

Bridget was supposed to be upset at the job she was made to take at the *jail* because she didn't like the association of it to her when she was not charged and supposedly claimed she did not like her mail addressed there- she felt it reflected on her character with friends and probably family. Those are pretty good reasons, but she had no say in the matter.

Thanks Harry for correcting me on that! I knew she got some time off on Thursday, but wasn't sure as to how much on that day. Guess I should get my facts straight first before posting. lol.

Harry @ Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:13 pm wrote:Lincoln's book "A Private Disgrace" has this on Bridget's wages:

"Bridget considered herself luckily situated, despite the trying atmosphere of the house. She did not get two half-days off starting after dinner, like all her friends; she got all of Sunday, and Thursday from just before dinner...."

I don't think it makes sense to give a servant half-day off starting just before dinner. She had her meals after the family had finished them (well, at least breakfast, but I think that goes for the other meals too), so Bridget would have to hang around in the house anyway until they had finished, if she was going to have her noon meal.
Perhaps Lincoln came to this conclusion because Bridget went upstairs to lie down before dinner. But I don't think there's anything special in that, since Bridget said she went up to her room too on wednesday afternoon, after she had finished ironing (Trial p. 199).
I think it's an interesting point, though, because if Bridget wouldn't have the afternoon off until after dinner, Lizzies remarks about the sale of cheap dress goods couldn't have been meant to lure Bridget out of the house before dinner time.

Airmid.

It's possible she made as much as the $4.00 mentioned by Lincoln but I'm inclined to think a little less. There probably was a large pool of young girls who preferred working as maids to working in the mills. That would hold down wages.

Wasn't there an ad in the paper by Abby once when they were looking for a maid? I think she had sole control of the hiring and training. From Bridget's comments it was obvious to me that she thought she reported to Abby.

Kat @ Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:25 am wrote: Bridget was supposed to be upset at the job she was made to take at the *jail* because she didn't like the association of it to her when she was not charged and supposedly claimed she did not like her mail addressed there- she felt it reflected on her character with friends and probably family. Those are pretty good reasons, but she had no say in the matter.

And of course she had to be careful of her reputation, if she wanted to find a good new job afterwards. Having been in a house where a murder had been committed isn't really "respectable", and neither is staying in a "jail"!

Airmid.

matt kevin jones @ Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:58 pm wrote:For once Ray S I have to agree with you.
Andrew must have liked Bridget, Because I beleive He ruled with an Iron Fist, and controlled most everything in the Household. If He wasent satisfied with Bridget , regardless of what the Girls thought, She certainly would have been put out. Seems Bridget was on good terms with everybody, and probably was a good cook. I just wonder who chose the menu, especially the Mutton for all those days.

I believe the Bordens picked out the meals. Trust Andy to buy a bargain.
As in today's world, a job that pays well and treats you good will have long-term employee(s).
Why does no one ask about the other maids who only stayed a year or so?

Airmid @ Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:25 am wrote:

Harry @ Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:13 pm wrote:Lincoln's book "A Private Disgrace" has this on Bridget's wages:

"Bridget considered herself luckily situated, despite the trying atmosphere of the house. She did not get two half-days off starting after dinner, like all her friends; she got all of Sunday, and Thursday from just before dinner...."

I don't think it makes sense to give a servant half-day off starting just before dinner. She had her meals after the family had finished them (well, at least breakfast, but I think that goes for the other meals too), so Bridget would have to hang around in the house anyway until they had finished, if she was going to have her noon meal.
Perhaps Lincoln came to this conclusion because Bridget went upstairs to lie down before dinner. But I don't think there's anything special in that, since Bridget said she went up to her room too on wednesday afternoon, after she had finished ironing (Trial p. 199).
I think it's an interesting point, though, because if Bridget wouldn't have the afternoon off until after dinner, Lizzies remarks about the sale of cheap dress goods couldn't have been meant to lure Bridget out of the house before dinner time.

Airmid.

The meanings of words can change over the years. "Dinner" usually meant the main meal served at noon time, unlike today.
I suspect Lizzie tried to get Bridget away because Andy asked her to do this. Andy had a meeting with a secret visitor scheduled, one that might be emotional. IMO
(The reason for closing the windows normally left open. IMO)
Don't forget that a family might want some privacy during the day.

Kat @ Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:25 am wrote:That's pretty interesting that Bridget may have made a yearly wage close to what the girls and Abby got. Hmmm...

Bridget was supposed to be upset at the job she was made to take at the *jail* because she didn't like the association of it to her when she was not charged and supposedly claimed she did not like her mail addressed there- she felt it reflected on her character with friends and probably family. Those are pretty good reasons, but she had no say in the matter.

Look at the Big Picture. How would you like to tell your relatives that your new address is C/O City Jail? How to explain that? "A likely story?"

We don't know how long the other maids stayed. It's interesting enough to know Andrew hired a maid at all with all those women in the house.

You can check census if you like. It won't help tho.

I was also thinking that if Bridget came from a large family, from Ireland, she might not be unused to family members in jail occasionally.
She might have a clean slate in America for all we know- and she might have had a record back in the old country...
I'm not assuming either way.

Kat @ Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:09 am wrote:We don't know how long the other maids stayed. It's interesting enough to know Andrew hired a maid at all with all those women in the house.

You can check census if you like. It won't help tho.

I was also thinking that if Bridget came from a large family, from Ireland, she might not be unused to family members in jail occasionally.
She might have a clean slate in America for all we know- and she might have had a record back in the old country...
I'm not assuming either way.

Oh yes you are!!! Merely to raise the question is to cast aspersions.
"Have you no shame?" said lawyer Welch to Sen McCarthy?

BTW, I'm sure the Governor was right in granting a full pardon for any murders (some posters) might have committed. Not that I'm casting aspersions.

I think Andy hired a maid because it was the right thing to do for a wealthy man. No chauffeur or groundskeeper or ? But he did bring in a man from his farm for occasional work. Correct?

Well I just thought of it as I was replying so let me say from now I won't assume Bridget had no record in the old country.

Kat @ Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:37 pm wrote:Well I just thought of it as I was replying so let me say from now I won't assume Bridget had no record in the old country.

I don't know what the immigration rules were in those days. Just what sort of "record" would Bridget have? And if so, would she been able to leave the country?
Some of us know that Bruno Hauptmann jumped ship because his record would have prevented him from entering the USA legally, and maybe even leaving his own country (Germany).
Please don't assume facts that may perturb others on the board.
And don't say that's a case of "do as I say, not as I do".

I think too she thought she was to answer to Abby. Wasn't reported at one time Bridget thought about quiting and Abby told "Please don't or I should die without you here", or something like that?

Nellie McHenry wrote Hilliard claiming she "interviewed" Bridget and she had this to say:
"... Bridget further stated that Mrs. Borden was always very kind and good to her & would talk to her tell her what she was going to do ... She further stated that she made up her mind three times to leave their and gave in her notice but Mrs. Borden coaxed her to stay and once raised her wages Mrs. Borden was so good that Bridget stayed but was intending to leave."...
--Knowlton Papers, pgs. 34-35, partial.

I don't know if there is testimony to such, but I think it also made it into the newspapers.

snokkums @ Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:55 am wrote:I think too she thought she was to answer to Abby. Wasn't reported at one time Bridget thought about quiting and Abby told "Please don't or I should die without you here", or something like that?

Ever notice how the presence of an outsider will calm family conflicts?

We should find out where else this tid-bit is written and Not rely on Nellie McHenry. Anybody?

I've never seen it anywhere else but in the Nellie McHenry letter. That letter (The Knowlton Papers, page 33, HK023) is a most curious document in itself. It's difficult to read because of its lack of punctuation, especially periods. If she was reading the letter to you, you would stop her and tell her "to come up for air".

One of the things I noted was that this alleged interview with Bridget occurred on August 19th at her boarding place in Fall River. Does that mean the Harrington's on Division Street? Although the interview allegedly took place on the 19th there is a notation at the end after Nellie's signature "Provo Aug 25/1892". I assume this means Providence, RI where the McHenry's had their office and was written on the 25th. Why this 6 day time gap between the interview and the writing of the letter? The 25th just happens to be the first day of the Preliminary hearing.

The letter mentions 2 names that are new to me as well. Quoting from the letter: "... Bridget denied telling the O'Neil girl that Lizzie sent her upstairs to clean windows, Mrs. Borden told Bridget to clean the windows herself, and she did so with a brush, she saw Mr. Baker and a Mrs. Kellys girl, while doing so- that was the last she ever heard Mrs. Borden say, and the last she ever saw of her."

First I thought the O'Neil girl (certainly not Nance!) might be McHenry's mistaken reference to the Kelly maid but she goes on in the same sentence to mention the Kelly's maid. So who is this O'Neil girl?

As for Baker, there was a Baker's drugstore on Main where Dr. Bowen went after sending the telegram to Emma. No record however, of a Mr. Baker being on Second St. the morning of the crime.

All in all, anything written by the McHenry's has to be looked at with a lot of skepticism. Since they were being paid for work done by the FR police they may have decided to come up with something. The Trickey-McHenry article is a perfect example of the McHenry's treachery.

Great post Harry!
Wasn't Bridget the first witness at the Preliminary Hearing on the 25th?
That could mean that Nellie was at the court, heard Bridget's evidence, wrote it up, and sent it to Hilliard on the same day, as a letter that she back dated.
Also, the hearing was postponed from the original starting date of the 22nd, so maybe Nellie had to adapt to that.

Porter has this:
"At 5 o'clock Bridget Sullivan left the police station in company with Officer Doherty and passed down Court Square. She was dressed in a green gown with hat to match and appeared to be nervous and excited. Nobody knew her, however, and she attracted no attention whatever. She went to the Borden house for a bundle and, still accompanied by Officer Doherty, walked to No. 95 Division street, where her cousin, Patrick Harrington lives, and where she passed the night. She was allowed to go on her own recognizance and seemed to be much relieved to get away from the Borden house. The Government impressed her with the necessity of saying nothing about the proceedings at the inquest and she was warned not to talk with anybody regarding her testimony. Bridget Sullivan is one of fourteen children. She came to this country six years ago. For three years she worked for a number of families in this city and the police reported that she bore an excellent reputation. For three years she had lived with the Borden family and for some time had been threatening to return to Ireland. She said that Mrs. Borden was a very kind mistress and that she was very much attached to her. Mrs. Borden used to talk to her about going home to Ireland, and used to tell her that she would be lonely without her. Accordingly, the girl said that she did not have the heart to leave, but she never expected to be in such an awful perdicament. She had been terrified ever since the tragedy." (Porter p. 56)

Would the press have had access to the McHenry letter? Was the letter published in a newspaper in those times? Or perhaps Porter had a little chat with Nellie McHenry?

Airmid.

Yes it is , Ray. But I do think that Abby thought of Bridget as her only friend in the house. I mean, she had an old miserly giser for a husband, two step daughters that weren't too fond of her, she had to have someone to talk to, even if it was a maid.