Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Hi!
You say that Ancestry dot com shows somehow that the populace of Fall River turned against Lizzie- is that after the trial?
How is that at Ancestry?

this paper The Fitchburg Sentinel (Fitchburg, Massachusetts) has lots of clippings at ancestry.com how many I don't know yet but am trying to save the ones about Lizzie and her trial and family the reason I titled this 2 hatchets and an axe is that the papers in various ones mention an axe and hatchet in the cellar at the beginning b4 the trial and charge brought upon poor Lizzie then in a paper clipping about a couple of months later it mentions they found another hatchet. Also has any1 ever talked about the guy that jumed the Borden fence and the little boy who seen him. I'll have to go back through these clippiings but I promise it will blow your mind. Also the 40 wack and 41 wack theory is out. Again I have to go back and study the clippings but if I remeber correctly in one clipping it said 13 wacks for Abby Borden and no less than 10 for Andrew Borden. Sorry I just skimmed the clipping then figured I'd go back and check them better. Oh just to let ya know in case you haven't found anything one hatchet was said to have be clean real good with ashes.

Dragnonfly...

Welcome to the forum.

You may also want to check some of the pertinent information Stefani (our forum administrator) has provided for us at:
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/LizzieABorden.htm There is a WEALTH of information available...for free. Also, you may want to consider subcribing to THE HATCHET.:
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/LizzieABorden.htm

Also, What brought you to this case ?...what books do you have/have you read about Lizzie ? Have you had a chance to read through any of the source documents (trial transcripts, etc.) ? Do you have a copy of Rebello's Past and Present ?

Again...welcome to the forum.


Tracy...

I've seen the Fitchburg clips. They were really into the Borden case, weren't they?

The guy who jumped the fence was McGowan supposedly after pears. Hoffman says it wasn't McGowan, but rather someone named Patrick McDonald. He doesn't give a source.
The kid who supposedly saw a guy go over the fence was Kerouack.

I think Harry has some news items on this.

It seems to have all an innocent explanation- but then if someone thought there was a *conspiracy* then they might dismiss this as a whitewash.

I came across Lizzie when I was studying Serial Killers. I am trying to put together a certain something and write a book if possible. Would yall like me to post the census info on Andrew and Lizzie or at least what I have so far. I just got through reading a news clipping 2 June 1927 they still acussed her in the clipping of the murder of her parents how sad. One clipping I didn't mention yall might know alrdy is that they found 2 spots of blood on Lizzie's dress the day of the murder but Sullivan the servant testified that Lizzie didn't seem out of breath after the murders and had no blood on her face. Giving the fact that we have all watch CSI lol we know if you wack a person with a cleaver/axe/ or hatchet it will cause blood splatter and you get it everywhere.

You may also find it helpful to search the forum archives...another WEALTH of information via past discussions.


Tracy...

Seems everything I have every1 has alrdy guess I have wasted time sorry for the intrusion have fun

Don't run away from us now! It's great to have you here and a fresh view into Lizzie's case is most welcome!.
I haven't been part of this forum for very long myself. Yes, I have been awed too by all these very knowledgeable people here. But I caught the Lizzie fever, and I want to know too exactly what happened those fatal days. There's so much left to do! I think we're nowhere near a clear picture yet.
The folks here are helpful indeed. They're always willing to answer questions about the case, or point me to sources I could check out.
So don't leave us now!

Airmid.

dragonfly23452002 @ Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:52 am wrote:Seems everything I have every1 has alrdy guess I have wasted time sorry for the intrusion have fun

Dragonfly, we have members here with many different levels of experience and knowledge of this case, from newbies to people with 40 or more years of study. We do our best to accomodate all.

We recommend to all newcomers to do what Tracy has suggested. Read the current messages, the archives, the virtual library, the Hatchet magazine, etc. You will find mountains of information available to all.

That does not mean we have everything or know everything. New things do appear now and then and we greedily welcome that.

This is from this paper

The Fitchburg Sentinel (Fitchburg, Massachusetts) > 1892 > August > 18

Fall River Aug 18 -- Charles H Peckham of Central Village, Westport walked into the Central police station, that morning, and said to the officer in charge:
" I killed Mr. and Mrs. Andrew J Borden and I have come from home to give myself up. I went over the back fence and through the rear door of the Borden house, two weeks ago, today, and I killed both of the people out of pure love for blood. I went out the rear door and over the back fence and walked over the New Bedford road home. I'm the murderer and I want to be locked up." He was searched and a pocket-book with a few receipts in it was found; also some official communications from the Russian bureau at Washington. Peckham is 62 years of age. The police are looking up his relatives and friends. It is found that Peckham is crazy beyond doubt. He begged several of the officers at the station to hang him. He formerly lived in Middletown, Conn., and it is said he had some trouble with his family and was locked up.

The Fitchburg Sentinel (Fitchburg, Massachusetts) > 1892 > August > 19

(my words taken from some of what the paper said)

This time the paper on Aug 19th said the mans name was George H Peckham and that he had spells where he blacks out and says stuff he doesn't mean to and wakes up wondering where he is at. George or Charles whatever his name was was a Civil War veteran. The paper also continued to say George H Peckham sacrificed lots in the war physically and mentally.

Also I found in another paper where a Mr. Wixon was said to have been the one going over the fence but that was thrown out when he hailed the Frenchman proving he didn't go over the fence so was George/Charles H Peckham insane or did his wife give a false alibi for him. Had he murdered before this???

Also Aug 18th paper did say his name was Charles H Peckham the Aug 19th paper did say his name was George H Peckham which is it Charles or George

how do I add picture to my name

To add yourpicture (avatar) to your name:

When you log on and come to the Welcome screen/forum index, left click on your name (it will be on the left hand side of the screen)

Your preference page will come up. Scroll down to the section on avatars. You can load whatever pcture you want. (I believe the size limit is 90 x 90)


Tracy...

His first name was Charles.

This is from the New Bedford Evening Standard of August 19th:

"Peckham Released

Charles H. Peckham, the unfortunate man who thought he murdered the Bordens, was fed and given all possible attention by the Fall River police. Gradually his hallucination began to leave him. He grew calmer and towards night no longer spoke of the terrible crime of which he had accused himself but a few hours before. He seemed in fact to have forgotten it entirely, and spoke in a wandering way about the haying at home, and wondered why he was in custody.
The terrible picture which had formed gradually in his excited imagination had been wiped away and more natural impressions were replacing it.
Mrs. Peckham, his wife, who was found on the farm near Central Village, was frantic with anxiety. She was told the story of her husband's wanderings. She said that he had suffered from temporary insanity about five years ago. The attack was succeeded by a semi-comatose state after which the mind would become clear again.
She was anxious that he should be released at once and said she was quite able to care for him. She asserted positively that he had not been out of her sight for an hour since a day long before the murder, except when he visited Fall River a week ago yesterday. He was an inoffensive man and would harm no one.
----------------
The Old Man at Liberty.

At 8:45 last night Mrs. Peckham and Constable Grinnell drove up to headquarters and said they had come for Peckham.
Captain Desmond went to the man's cell to see if he was in a fit condition to be set at large.
The "self-accused" was sleeping soundly. He was awakened and after a glance at the suggestive surroundings he said: "What am I doing here?" And not "Where am I at?" as is reported in some quarters. He was told that he had confessed to the murder of the Bordens.
"It's not so," he said. "I never did it."
A after a few further questions he was taken to the guard room.
"Do you know this man, Peckham?" Captain Desmond asked, pointing to Grinnell.
The old man scratched his head pensively for a moment and then said heartily: "Hello, Grinnell." That was all, Mrs. P. bundled him into the old country carriage, the constable whipped up the horse, the trio were lost in the night, and Charles Peckham's career as a murderer was at an end."

You see, there are different interpretations of the witnesses and the evidence. That's why I said some could look like a whitewash. If the town was in cahoots to protect Lizzie, then they could easily dismiss some *witnesses* as crazy, or laughable or explanable.
But why the need to *protect* her if she was innocent?

Try to be careful if you are reading testimony in the newspapers. Personally I advise against it. Casual Statements are fine- you can decide for yourself what is relevant- just not testimony.
Another thing is, to be precise, you would quote exactly from the paper, and then giving your opinion is fine. That way others can decide for themselves too.
Thanks!

Thanks Har!