Lizzie Borden Society Forum

We have heard repeated ad infinitum that Lizzie had said "It wasn't Bridget or anyone who worked for father" and we have looked for this *quote* because we had no proper source. I have *found* it and am putting it here.

This is the defense attorney former Governor Robinson at the trial, in his closing argument, in context:

Some one said Bridget did it. Now there were but two persons around that house as we now find out, so far as we can locate anybody, and the busy finger was pointed at Bridget Sullivan,---Bridget Sullivan only an Irish girl, working in the family, working for her weekly pay, been faithful to them, been there two years and nine months, lived happily and peacefully with them and they have had no trouble, and Lizzie spoke right out determinedly, as you know, and promptly, Why, Bridget did not do it. Then somebody said: Why, the Portuguese on the farm. No, says Lizzie, he is not a Portuguese; he is a Swede, and my father has not any man that ever worked for him that would do that to him. Not Alfred Johnson that worked for them, not Mr. Eddy, another farmer that worked for them, no assistant,---I cannot believe it of any of them.

How do you account for that except in one way? She was virtually if she were a criminal,---virtually putting every body away from suspicion and leaving herself to stand as the only one to whom all would turn their eyes. Suppose she had been wicked and designing and Bridget as innocent as Bridget is today. Suppose Lizzie had undertaken to tell something

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that would involve Bridget, would it not have been easy? And it might have been. Then if she had led the way in treachery and repeated crime, Lizzie might have led Bridget right into the toils in which she herself became involved to the relief of Bridget by her statement that Bridget is not to be suspected. It is not every human being who can stand that strain. It is not every man that has strength of purpose and purity of mind enough to step forward and say, I will not listen to these baseless aspersions against the people that have been with us and lived with us and toiled with us and served us well, and who are of us.

This is the *quote* we keep reading (hearing)- but it must come from somewhere else for Robinson to recount it this way. I did a search in the Witness Statements but did not find a combination of these words to make a full statement. Anywhere else?

Kat, I searched through Lizzie's inquest and couldn't find anything and went back to the witness statements. This is the closest thing I could find to that quote: pg. 4 Harrington and Doherty


"The work girl said she was upstairs and heard no noise until Miss Lizzie called her.
Miss Lizzie had no suspicious (sic) on the farm hands."

Could it be possible that this quote is secondhand from someone else repeating what Lizzie had said? Or, could it be from a news article?

Hmmm, I seem to recall reading something, perhaps it was one of the authors, but, Lizzie was being asked about the farmhands and Lizzie had mentioned that one of them was sick at the farm and that they couldn't or wouldn't have killed her father anyway.

...that would involve Bridget, would it not have been easy? And it might have been. Then if she had led the way in treachery and repeated crime, Lizzie might have led Bridget right into the toils in which she herself became involved to the relief of Bridget by her statement that Bridget is not to be suspected. It is not every human being who can stand that strain. It is not every man that has strength of purpose and purity of mind enough to step forward and say, I will not listen to these baseless aspersions against the people that have been with us and lived with us and toiled with us and served us well, and who are of us.

This disposes of any claim that "Bridget was guilty" - take note, Edward Radin!!!
It also show that good-hearted Lizzie sought to shield the innocent.
Undoubtedly taken from the newspaper records, or from police investigation.

Kat @ Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:33 am wrote:This is the *quote* we keep reading (hearing)- but it must come from somewhere else for Robinson to recount it this way. I did a search in the Witness Statements but did not find a combination of these words to make a full statement. Anywhere else?

This could've come from Lizzie's own personal conversations with Robinson? Unfortunately there can never be a record of all the statments made by Lizzie, or anybody else, about the case. It's possible that we may never know the source for it if it was just in personal conversation, or through legal counsel.

That's true.
But for some reason, I thought it was somewhere else more current with the murders than the trial..
Not an author either. hmm...
Thanks you guys.

I don't know if this helps at all but there's some stuff in Kent's 40 Whacks that appears to be taken from the Daily Herald that came out the day of the murders.

Miss Borden had seen no person enter or leave the place. The man who had charge of her father's farm was held in the highest respect by Mr. Borden. His name was Alfred Johnson, and he trusted his employer so much that he left his bank book at Mr. Borden's house for safe keeping. The young lady had not the slightest suspicion of his being connected with the crime. As far as the Portuguese suspected of the crime was concerned, she knew nothing of him, as he might have been a man who was employed by the day in the busy season. What his motive could have been it is hard to tell, as Mr. Borden had always been kind to his help. (Kent, p. 6)

And later -- from an extra edition of the Herald (I think the same day) --
"A Herald reporter saw an intimate friend of the family who has been with Miss Borden ever since the terrible blow was struck. Miss Borden is anxious that any stories that connect the maid servant, Lizzie Corrigan [read Bridget Sullivan], or any of the men at the farms, with the deed be refuted. All of them have been in the family's employ for many years, and Mr. Eddy, the superintendent of one of the farms, is at present so ill that Miss Borden was anxious that the stories should not reach his ears that any of the old help were suspected of the deed." (Kent, p. 10)

Thank you Diana.
That's good stuff.

Would Robinson depend upon what the newspaper said, tho, and include that in a trial argument?
Maybe so- it's melodramtic enough.
Hmmm...

Kat @ Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:54 pm wrote:
Would Robinson depend upon what the newspaper said, tho, and include that in a trial argument?

That's what I wondered, too. I'm doubting that he would. Where did the newspaper get this statement? They say it's from an intimate friend who was with Lizzie since the "terrible blow was struck". Alice maybe? Mrs. Churchill? Marianna Holmes?

diana @ Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:36 pm wrote:

Kat @ Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:54 pm wrote:
Would Robinson depend upon what the newspaper said, tho, and include that in a trial argument?

That's what I wondered, too. I'm doubting that he would. Where did the newspaper get this statement? They say it's from an intimate friend who was with Lizzie since the "terrible blow was struck". Alice maybe? Mrs. Churchill? Marianna Holmes?

YES if it was also in the police records. One book on Courtroom Testimony said that the newspaper reports, often abrdiged, are available long before any trial transcript.

You've been quoting this...what is the earliest source, please will you find out and let us know? Thanks.

Kat @ Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:08 am wrote:You've been quoting this...what is the earliest source, please will you find out and let us know? Thanks.

The earliest source possible would be in the evening newspapers of 8/4/1892. One of them favored Lizzie and her class.

Do you remember what Agnes De Mille wrote about this case? She used Victoria Lincoln as a source, and others. Wasn't Joseph Welch from Fall River?
PS I can't look it up. but wasn't that quote from Porter?

Kat, I think I found what you were looking for while re-reading Radin.

The first instance is in the preliminary, volume 4, Fleet is on the stand, page 355:

There is a long portion of testimony before this part with Bridget in it:

She said Bridget had been in the house in the forenoon. Well, I says "do you suspect Bridget?" She says "no, I don't." I says "where was Bridget duirng the time that your father---that is, at any time this morning?" She said she had been outside washing windows, and then she came in. and after her father came in, she went up stairs, as she thought, to fix her room, or make her bed; but she did not think that Bridget had anything to do with it. She said after she went up stairs, that she went up in the barn.

Q. You have got some shes there.
A. When Bridget went up stairs she said that she, meaning Lizzie, went up in the barn. I says "up in the barn"? She says "yes". "What do you mean by 'up'? "Up stairs in the barn." "How long did you remain in the barn"? She says "about a half an hour. When I went out my father was laid on the lounge. When I came back, I found him killed or cut up, in the same position as when I left him." She also said that John V. Morse, her Uncle, came there the day before, and he slept in the room where Mrs. Borden was found killed. I asked her is she thought that John V. Morse could have had anything to do with this. She said that it was impossible, because Mr. Morse went away before nine o'clock this morning, and did not come back until after the murder. I then had a conversation with Mr. Morse.

The other is from the Trial volume 1, Philip Harrington is on the stand, page 595:

Q. Will you be kind enough to state what it was?
A. Yes, sir. I said, "Miss Borden, where were you when this was done?" She said, "It must have been done while I was in the barn." "Was there a Portuguese working for your father over the river?" She said, "No, sir, Mr. Johnson and Mr. Eddy worked for my father." "Were they here this morning?" "No, sir, Mr. Eddy is sick. They would not hurt my father anyhow."

I knew I recalled reading something about one of them being sick. So, I hope that helps, we now have the individual sources that the quotes came from.

I like your little laughing face!
That's a good detective job there. I especially like the "They would not hurt my father anyhow."
Thanks!

Edits =(I'm having a spelling crisis)...

I have never thought that Bridget "did it". She was making decent money, better money than most of the maids of her day. She also had room and board. And she liked Abby.

You're welcome, Kat. Radin will have to get most of the credit as he has these portions of the trial and prelim in his book. Once I knew who the person was that testified to what, all I had to do was look in the different sources to see if it was actually there. I was a bit surprised when I did find them as I had thought that these statements were from an author. I guess it pays to read and reread the source docs whenever possible, they are just full of Borden goodness.

I think Edward Radin was just playing Devil's Advocate here. He went to Fall River and reported on what he found. His chpater suggesting it could've been Bridget was just a hook (IMO) to create a sensation and sell his book.
As I remember it, he said "maybe" it could've been Bridget because the slaying of an employer by a disgruntled employee is common.

If the County Library system still has this book, I will try to reread it.

PS The most important part of this book is his explanation that Pearson's book was so one-sided as to amount to a "literary hoax".

Inquest testimony of Charles Sawyer page 139-140:

Q. Is there any other fact you have not told us that you saw or heard, connected with the affair?
A. I went up to the room where Mrs. Borden was found, and saw her laying there, and saw the blood on the bed, or at least on the shams, apparently a smooch is struck me, on the counterpain or coverlet.

Q. Did you see any more bloody cloths around there?
A. No, except what was around Mrs. Borden. I did not stop there long, I thought I had got to stay at the door.I stayed around there until six o'clock.

140(47)

(Mr. Sawyer returns.)

While I was there the story was going around with regard to a Portugee or some foreigner that was working on the farm. Miss Alice Russell came to me and said that Miss Lizzie Borden was very anxious that that story should be suppressed, because she said he was a very nice man, and a very old and tired servant in the family, and she was deeply concerned about it. Miss Russell made this talk with me, Miss Lizzie did not say anything about it.

That's very close as well! Thanks!

Boy, I had no idea pieces of the *statement* were in so many places! Lizzie must have been telling this to everyone, eh?