Lizzie Borden Society Forum

The New York Times was one of the newspapers that reported about the Preliminaries. They wrote the following (Aug. 26th) (Sourcebook p. 153):

Charles O. Cook, an insurance agent, testified to his business relations with Borden. ....... Cook usually saw Borden three or four times a week, but did not see him at all on the day of the murder. He saw him pass along the street on the day before.

Did Charles C. Cook indeed testify that he saw Andrew on the day before the murder?

Airmid.

Yes. he did. Here's a portion of that testimony from Charles C. Cook.

Q: Did you see him the day before the murder?
A: I saw him I think going down Main Street, on the other side of the street from the building, as I stood in the office.
Q: What day was that?
A: That would be Wednesday.
Q: What time of day?
A: I think in the forenoon, I do not remember the time.
Q: When was the last time you saw him to have any talk with him?
A: Tuesday I think; I know it was Tuesday.
Q: Tuesday afternoon or morning?
A: Tuesday forenoon.
Q: Where did you see him then?
A: In the office.
Q: Tuesday before the murder in the forenoon?
A: Yes sir.
Q: You had some talk with him that time?
Q: Did you have any talk with reference to a will?
A: No sir. (Prelim: 206,207)

I'm not so sure. Have you checked everywhere? Didn't Cook take back that he saw Andrew Wednesday? Somewhere else written maybe?

Andrew didn't go out Wednesday. I've almost convinced Airmid of that!

Thanks Diana!

Yup Kat, you did convince me, so you can imagine I was pretty surprised when I came across that bit!

Now what to make of it.....

Airmid.

Diana will find out for us!

Eeek. I can't find Cook taking it back in the Witness Statements or Prelim, and he wasn't at the trial. Hmmm.. His clerk saw Andrew Thursday- where did I get this idea that Cook thought better of seeing Andrew Wednesday?

I know we know he missed a meeting Wednesday.
And I believe the Bowens saw him around the house Wednesday.
And Morse said Andrew would not go to Swansea with him because of the medicine he took.

Cook is just wrong. Help me out here

Cook was not cross-examined at the Preliminary Hearing and did not appear at trial at all. So if he recanted his testimony about seeing Andrew on Wednesday I don't know where it is. But if Kat says he took it back, I'm guessing it's somewhere... A quick check of authors didn't turn up anything -- is it in the newspapers, perhaps? Maybe we should also remember that Cook actually said about seeing Andrew on Wednesday: "I saw him I think going down Main Street, on the other side of the street from the building, as I stood in the office.

BTW -- I also tried to get a clue from Jonathan Clegg's statements as to when he saw Andrew on Wednesday just to see if he put Andrew at home in the morning. He testifies at trial (p.174) that he went to the house on Wednesday -- and Bridget let him in but unfortunately he doesn't say if it was morning or afternoon.

But Bowen does say at the Inquest that he saw Andrew out Wednesday morning two or three hours after Abby came over to see him. (Inquest, 115+)

Yes Bowen eventually says his wife accounted for Andrew being "out" and Lizzie being out.

Since Mrs. Dr. Bowen saw Lizzie going away, it has sounded like Andrew was pretty close to home tho --I think Dr. Bowen said Andrew was seen on the walk by Mrs. Dr. Bowen.

Prelim
Dr. Bowen
407
CROSS-EXAMINATION.
Q. (Mr. Knowlton) A very few questions. When was the last time you saw Mr. Borden?
A. Mr. Borden, I saw him, I do not remember whether I ever saw him after Wednesday morning or not. I know my wife said he was out on the sidewalk; whether I looked out and saw him, I do not remember.
Q. You did not see him on Wednesday morning?
A. Yes, I saw him Wednesday morning.
....
408
Q. Did you see Lizzie at all that day?
A. I think not.
Q. Out of doors, or in?
A. I do not remember as I did. I know my wife said she was going up the street, or going down street towards night, that was Miss Lizzie.
Q. You did not see her during the day at all?
A. No Sir. I remember that, because my wife accounted for Mr. Borden being out, and Lizzie being out, and I suppose they were all right.
Q. That is the last time that you know of that you saw Mr. or Mrs. Borden?
A. Yes Sir.

--I must be wrong about Cook. But I think he has his days mixed up. Thanks anyway, Diana!

I checked the newspapers, the Evening Standard and the FR Herald. In the August 26 editions of both they list this for Cook. This is from the Standard:

"Talked About His Will. Charles C. Cook testified: My business is insurance. I had charge of Mr. Borden's block corner of Anawan and South Main streets. I did not see him the day of the murder. I saw him on Tuesday forenoon before the murder."

This from the Herald:

"Charles C. Cook, insurance broker, had charge of the Borden building, corner of South Main and Anawan streets. He did not see Mr. Borden on the day of the murder; the last time he saw him was on Tuesday before the murder."

Both these papers were reporting on his testimony at the Preliminary. Neither mention Wednesday but his testimony does. My interpretation of Cook's testimony was that the last time he talked with him was Tuesday and the last time he seen him (not to talk to) was Wednesday.

If you really want to get confused, Porter in his book (p97) has Cook saying Sunday was the last time he talked with Andrew.

And to totally blow your mind, this from the Boston Globe of August 5th:

"Being the first of the month he walked down 2d st. and Borden to Main st., where he entered C. C. Cook's office on the corner of Anawan and Mains sts., to receive his rents. Mr. Cook had charge of Mr. Borden's property, and when he entered, paid him over a sum representing the collections of the day before from tenants. Mr. Borden had received money also the day before. ..."

Monday would have been the first. Would the collections have been over by the 1st of the month? More than likely he would have stopped in on the 2nd, Tuesday.

It's interesting that Cook was not cross-examined at the Preliminary and not called at all at the Trial.

Cook may not have seen Andrew on Thursday but there is this in the Witness Statements (page 30):

"Edith Francis, clerk for C. C. Cook makes the following statement. "I happened to be looking out of the window of our office in Mr. Borden's Block on South Main street Thursday morning, shortly after ten o'clock; and saw Mr. Borden going south on So. Main street, walking on the East side of the street. He looked up at the building, but kept right on. He was alone at the time."

Thanks Harry. Yes the Cook clerk says she saw Andrew Thursday. Ummm. Andrew was sick. He was lying reclining on the sofa when Dr. Bowen came over Wednesday morning. I think he stretched his legs a bit in the yard- or walkway in front of his house when Mrs. Dr. Bowen saw him. "Out" meaning he was getting some air.
She seemed to know these kinds of things like she looked out the window a lot- or else she was keeping an eye out for the Bordens that day because they had been sick?

Did Clegg go see Andrew Wednesday at the Borden house?

Kat @ Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:30 pm wrote: Did Clegg go see Andrew Wednesday at the Borden house?

Yes he did, according to his testimony at trial:

"Q. Had you gone to Mr. Borden's house to visit him with reference to this store?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When and how many times did you go there?
A. Twice.
Q. Do you remember what days you went there?
A. Yes, Tuesday the first day.
Q. Tuesday of this same week?
A. Tuesday, on the second.
Q. Tuesday, the 2d of August, 1892. What day did you next go there?
A. Wednesday.
Q. The following day?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. So that you were there the two days preceding the homicide?
A. Yes, sir." (Trial, 174+)

Yes that's it! Thanks! I wonder what time he went there.
Should we include the statement where Andrew missed a meeting Wednesday? Or can you find that Airmid?
If Andrew did not go out Wednesday (which I believe we have good proof of) then he probably really needed that shave on Thursday! (The one we have no evidence for).

Here it is:

Witness Statements p. 29 (Medley):
Fall River, August 7, 1892.
Andrew J. Borden visited the Union Saving Bank about half past nine A. M. Thursday, and explained to Mr. A. C. Hart the reason of his (Mr. Borden’s) inability to attend a meeting of the Board of Directors which be said was because he did not feel well. He remained but a few minutes, and went north from the bank. He was alone when he came and went away from the Bank.

Airmid.

Abram Hart also testifies about this at the Preliminary Hearing -- saying that the meeting was the previous day (Wednesday) and noting it was highly unusual for Andrew, as president, to miss a quarterly meeting of the bank trustees. (Prelim. 203)