Lizzie Borden Society Forum

The Borden building at the corner of Anawan and South Main in the sunshine. Mr. B. got one last look as he came home on the 4th.

Walking down Spring Street, then taking a left onto South Main and toddling south 2 blocks will bring you to the site of Smith's pharmacy at Columbia and South Main. The building from 1892 is gone now.

Mr. Borden's view puffing up Spring Street on the way home. This was taken just before the Leary Press came down.

All that's left of Sargent's on North Main. The rest of the building on the right is gone.

Lizzie's Morgan Street grammar school- can you picture her jumping rope on the lawn? It is currently the Nathaniel Borden School and is due for demolition.

The white house, the Gray homestead on Fourth originally but shifted back from the corner of Spring and 4th to its new place behind the green house behind the red tree. Abby would have to have gone down 2nd to Rodman then turn left down Rodman and turn left onto Fourth as Spring Street did not extend past 2nd street in 1892. All of this information courtesy of Len Rebello, who has the patience of a saint in parading me all over town answering a million questions the past 15 years.

The E in Borden marks the spot where Alice Russell's house once stood- senior housing in the background- this is Borden Street.

Beautiful Marion harbor and fishing pier taken 3 years ago, showing the gazebo, Prestigious Taber School is located here and the town has not changed much over time.

Dr. Handy's cottage -Marion (after some renovations).

The Brownell house on Green Street in Fairhaven- still standing, the worse for wear, and inhabited. Picture Emma rushing down the steps.

This is awful, we are going to lose another Lizzie Landmark. We already lost Lizzie's High School, now we are going to lose her Elementary School. Next to her own home Lizzie's Elementary School is where she would have spent most of her time.

We have already lost the Bowen House, the Churchill House, Alice Russel's House, Hall's Stable, the Ferry Street House, Smith's Drug store, the Central Police Station, the City Hall, The Taunton Jail and how many more?

Fall River knows that Lizzie attracts big tourist dollars they should protect these buildings, even if the building is used for another purpose like the Central Church, at least it is still there.

Fall River is like a Real Life Wonderland to mystery lovers who have studied the case. I have been hoping they they would come up with a Lizzie tour, taking people around to the different sites. Even without a tour group someone could put togeather a tour on paper and people could take it themselves.

Some say it's controversial and that Fall River should not be promoting the murders. It's not the murders themselves that interests people so much, its the mystery of it that attracts people. It is an intrigueing story.

I wonder if records would show what classrooms Lizzie had? Shelly is there anyway you can get pictures of the inside of the school?

Maybe we can find the blueprints and take measurements. If they tear it down and I win big on the Lottery I might have it rebuilt.

Yes, so much of old Fall River is gone or under the gun-still thanks to the preservation people, some of the great buildings will be with us for awhile longer. I am glad Second Street is on the National Register and is afforded protection. A lot of the big Victorians on the hill are saved by dividing them up into condos or multi-family apartments. The Morgan Street School has been on the chopping block for awhile and the fact that it is not gone yet gives me hope maybe it will be spared a while longer.

I have, with Len's help, put together a walking tour of the city, and I give this tour to serious Bordenites who stay at the house. In summer we walk a lot of it, in cold weather we sometimes have it by dark in the car! It will be a lanternlight feature for the Halloween houseguests as well as an Oak Grove visit. Currently I am putting together a brochure of a self-guided tour of Oak Grove featuring the well-known cast in the story to accompany a CD of Victorian images in Oak Grove, both Borden-related and other fascinating stones.

Yes, I would be able to go inside and get some photos I believe- and should probably do so pretty soon.

Thanks Shelly, if you got pictures of the inside of the school it would be nice.

In some cases to preserve an old building they build an addition to meet the needs. There is a story I seen years ago on TV about an old palace or mansion in south america that they wanted to save but they wanted to build a Hotel on the site. The mansion by itself wasn't suited for a hotel, so what they did was build the hotel around the mansion and had the mansion as part of the hotel. As a result you could see very little of the mansion from the outside, as the hotel basically surrounded it, but it did the job and saved the mansion.

Tony, this photo is in Volume II of Victorian Vistas (p727). It appears with an article dated January 31, 1900. Whether it was taken then it doesn't say. In any case it is quite a few years after Lizzie attended there but at least it gives us a glimpse of the interior.



Although some of the photo on the left has been cut off there appears to be at least 30 students. Do they all look about the same age?

Love the inkwell desks and the puffed sleeves!

I would say from my experience/perspective, that the students in the photo do look about the age of 8th graders. I was trying to decide what the writing on the chalkboard was about. I thought maybe math, but maybe it looks more like they are diagramming sentences in an English grammar class. Great photo ! Thanks Harry !





Tracy...

We had desks just about that old when I was in grade school. The ink well had no ink though. The desks were always adjusted too low for us bigger kids. I like the "wrap around" chalk boards. Kids were so well behaved in those days as compared to today and kids had respect for Teachers then. Kids now are packing knives, guns, drugs, bombs and who know what else to school. Times sure have changed. My Grandfather was born that month and year.

Thank you, Harry.

-1bigsteve (o:

What fun to see a real blackboard! By the time I came to my teaching years they were green and we all had to use dustless chalk for kids who might have allergies. I see the pictures are still hanging Victorian style on cords. Len Rebello was telling me that women elementary teachers HAD to be unmarried for the longest time in the city of Fall River- up into the 1950's! . I bet this classroom looked about the same in Lizzie's tenure there. I must get this book! Yeah, those were the days- handwriting mattered, we had Washington's birthday on February 22nd and Lincoln's on the 12th, hot lunches, yellow pencils, manners and politeness were drilled into our little heads, and we all said please and thank you!

Shelley...what grade/subject did you teach ?





Tracy...

Brit Lit, American Lit, World Lit, business English and French III. My final year was 1998 with Remedial Reading. I do miss being around young people- they do tend to keep one from becoming a cranky old crone!

Wow...those sound like fun classes ! I always loved my literature classes. Right now, I am teaching 7th grade science and a class we call 'content support'. It's for kids who can seem to stay caught up with their work in a class or two, or three. I try to help the get organized, focused, and caught up.





Tracy...

Yes it was fun, especially putting on the plays and recitation day, spelling bees and creative writing classes. For about 1/3 of my students at the convent school, English was a second language. I learned to make 1890's leg-o'mutton dresses when I costumed HMS Pinafore which has come in real handy for dressing the gals at the house!

Thanks Harry. I have that book somewhere, I'll have to find it. Maybe we can get a before and after picture of the same room.

#1 Nov 4th
The Episcopal Church of the Ascension on Rock, right next door to the Central Congregational. This was the parish of Rev. Cleveland who did Lizzie's funeral service.

#2 Nov. 4/2006
The bells from the old town hall tower, now hung on Third street.

Lizzie Professional Bldg on Third St. #3 Nov 4/2006
The ground floor used to have Lizzie's Deli where you could get a Lizzie burger- rare beef with a lot of ketchup, for $4.95. It was Victorian inside with lace curtains and stained glass which is still visible.

When you say the *old town hall*- do you mean the same as City Hall?
(#2 picture).
Thank you for the pictures!

Yes- I do mean city hall. I looked at those bells and imagined Bridget listening up in her little room as one of them struck 11.

Can you tell me where these bells are located and are they identified as such? We certainly have not been over all of Fall River, but we love to visit artifacts such as this.

Yes, - you pass the post office and they are on the left just behind the government center -past that mural on the wall showing things Fall River is famous for. I have read that one was an old city hall bell in several places about the city's history. That government building is hideous. Repairs are going on underneath it which can be seen when you go under the overpass after the bridge before exit 6 Hartwell St.
There was a drive to save the Durfee High School bells too when that building was turned into a court. I believe three of these bells (the big ones) were from the high school set of 11 chimes- with 8 in storage.
This is from the bell history site http://www.gcna.org/data/NA_no_more.html

"City Hall, Fall River, MA
An 11-bell chime by McShane was installed in this city in 1908; the location is uncertain. Three of these bells were re-installed with an hour bell (from a separate source?) in a free-standing clock tower near the City Hall in 1981, and rededicated in 1992. The other 8 bells are reported to be in storage. " The bells are also marked. The hour bell is what I understand to be the bell from the old city hall. They call them the Watson Bells- I am not sure why. I believe Watson was the foundry where they were cast and later retuned. It is a topic I have always wanted to explore further. I also understand that a gold eagle from the top of old city hall is now installed in the government building inside.

Dedham pet cemetery with a beautiful stone for the dogs.

Dedham cemetery inside the barn, little coffins for dogs and cats.

The bell link was good, thanks!

Here's the Eagle from on top of Old City Hall. Stef took this pic.

That's great! I have heard about that eagle for years but could not get in on a weekend to see it.
It's really magnificent.

I guess the bells are mounted in the same frame from when they were in the city hall?

Is the Mcwhirr department store building still there?

We've been trying to figure out those bells.
Apparently *A* City Hall bell was added to a carillon?
Meaning, one bell added to others?

If so, that might be a stand for them built to accomodate them on the sidewalk.
I'm not sure. I haven't really figured it out.

Just got back from an "indepth" examination of those bells at 4 p.m. in the rain. There are 4, given by Samuel Watson in September 1908 in memory of his wife Betty. They hung in the City Hall- but these could not have been the bell or bells Bridget heard of course. Len did not know where the original City Hall bell went- or the 11 Durfee High bells- ah! A mystery! There is a placque on the wall behind them. This frame is directly in back of government center, on Third Streeet.

Article in today's FR Herald News on the bells.

http://tinyurl.com/ygtkdp

"When the bells were housed at the old Durfee, they were played mechanically, by working a large keyboard that resembled ax handles."

Sounds like something Lizzie could have taken care of.
Thanks for the article, Harry.

Thanks for the article Har! How did they know we were talking about bells?

Anyway, these can't be Shelley's bells- it says the Durfee bells are being restored. I don't think they do that on the sidewalk, right? So we really don't know about Shelley's bells anymore huh?

Susan @ Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:10 pm wrote:"When the bells were housed at the old Durfee, they were played mechanically, by working a large keyboard that resembled ax handles."

Sounds like something Lizzie could have taken care of.
Thanks for the article, Harry.

Weren't those long wooden handles part of church organs from centuries ago? Any experts here?

Oh boy- do we have bells in Fall River! On the prowl yesterday (photos coming soon) with Jeff, we found the old city hall bell on the corner of Pocasett and Sullivan and did a little bell dance, put life and limb in peril and almost took a swandive trying to read the inscription on the bell. Jeff rang it without the clapper, we gurgled with glee thinking it was "Bridget's 11 o'clock 1892 bell- then read the fateful numbers 1908 on the front!! So- the Bell Caper continues, true believers! Ring- a ding-ding!

Yes- We were all excited when we saw that bell and thought it was the
bell Bridget heard!! But it wasn't the one though. This was near the end of Andrew's final walk into town.

The 1908 City Hall Bell on its stanchion at Pocasett Street precariously close to the drop off over 195.

Jeff gives it a ring- and for a moment we thought we were "channelling Bridget" until we read the date- 1908!

The overpass near the bell above 195 where the old river really used to flow and fall, this looking west towards Providence.

Shelley @ Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:15 pm wrote:Jeff gives it a ring- and for a moment we thought we were "channelling Bridget" until we read the date- 1908!

This a weird little picture of me. I can only imagine what passerbys were
thinking of us LOL
Luckily no one can see my ugly mug.

One of the strangest sites around town is the Rolling Rock which is actually a conglomerate of compressed mineral materials left on this spot by a glacier. It is over near Lafayette Park and is a subject for many old Fall River post cards. This was the first time I saw this! I was impressed.

Jeff is holding it up for a better photo angle.

Old Quequechan #1 Firebarn-now The Little Theatre of Fall River on Prospect and Highland Ave.

I love these things!
http://www.neara.org/Moore/balancedrocks.htm

and:



From Oct 19, 2005
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