Lizzie Borden Society Forum

when did Lizzie move into Maplecroft?



Thanks

StevenB

Sept. 4, 1893 (Rebello)

Shelley @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:55 am wrote:Sept. 4, 1893 (Rebello)

I thought it was 1894, so many writers have written that she moved with "Undue Haste" They were right!



Thanks!


StevenB

Well, I don't blame her one bit. I would not want to be reminded of that house (either if I had been guilty or innocent). Not to mention, she would have been hounded and stared at on the streets of her old neighborhood constantly as she tried to make her way down Main Street. I am surprised she and Emma waited until 1918 to unload that place.

So often I get asked if anything in #92 is original to the house. With her new fortune, seems only natural Lizzie would want new, in-style stuff. The old Second Street stuff was ruined in a warehouse hurricane flood we learned somewhere on this Forum.

[quote="Shelley @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:24 am"]Well, I don't blame her one bit. I would not want to be reminded of that house (either if I had been guilty or innocent). Not to mention, she would have been hounded and stared at on the streets of her old neighborhood constantly as she tried to make her way down Main Street. I am surprised she and Emma waited until 1918 to unload that place.

So often I get asked if anything in #92 is original to the house. With her new fortune, seems only natural Lizzie would want new, in-style stuff. The old Second Street stuff was ruined in a warehouse hurricane flood we learned somewhere on this Forum.[/quote]


EXACTLY! Ithink the stuff was destroyed in 1918, I tought it a bit strange that she kept that stuff so long in storage.


StevenB

The deed changed hands on August 10, 1893. It seems the "premises" were acquired from George French himself, by Mrs. Allen (Atlia, 1889), before being sold to the Borden ladies. They were pretty busy between the deed change and the move-in date.

Kat @ Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:40 am wrote:The deed changed hands on August 10, 1893. It seems the "premises" were acquired from George French himself, by Mrs. Allen (Atlia, 1889), before being sold to the Borden ladies. They were pretty busy between the deed change and the move-in date.

I'd say. Since they didn't bring any furniture from Second Street they had to be really busy, not to mention the spending spree they were on. No wonder people said she moved with "undue" haste! I can just imagine the talk in Fall River with Lizzie throwing Andrews money around like water! Can you imagine all the delivery wagons and work men at French Street? Every day something new arriving and all the tongues waging. That act alone must have done a lot of damage to Lizzie reputation. If she had taken her time and waited a while the town might not have turned on her.


StevenB

We'll never know, I guess, if the haste was due to Lizzie just wanting to grab up that property when the opportunity came to acquire it. a reluctance to go back into Second St. (and I don't blame her for that) , or the urgent need to relocate-or all of the above.

Sometimes the most innocent of circumstances appear outwardly to be fraught with dark motives, when actually none exist. I imagine conversations between Emma and Lizzie that summer of 1893. "Emma, we simply cannot stay on Second Street-it is impossible". They had to live somewhere, and the fact that the two decided to stay together and buy a house together is fascinating when each sister might have had her own place- and anywhere in the country.

Maplecroft is probably one of the highest spots in elevation up on the hill-but this may be just coincidence. People will talk- people love to dish the dirt. Naturally, by staying in Fall River, the girls left themselves wide open for criticism-no matter what they did. I wonder what the public would have had to say had Lizzie stayed on Second Street? "Can you imagine the NERVE of that woman- after what she did, parading around that place now she owns it!"- or something like that. Whatever Lizzie did , it was a lose-lose situation for Lizzie in the merciless eyes of the old gossips.

Shelley @ Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:52 am wrote:We'll never know, I guess, if the haste was due to Lizzie just wanting to grab up that property when the opportunity came to acquire it. a reluctance to go back into Second St. (and I don't blame her for that) , or the urgent need to relocate-or all of the above.

Sometimes the most innocent of circumstances appear outwardly to be fraught with dark motives, when actually none exist. I imagine conversations between Emma and Lizzie that summer of 1893. "Emma, we simply cannot stay on Second Street-it is impossible". They had to live somewhere, and the fact that the two decided to stay together and buy a house together is fascinating when each sister might have had her own place- and anywhere in the country.

Maplecroft is probably one of the highest spots in elevation up on the hill-but this may be just coincidence. People will talk- people love to dish the dirt. Naturally, by staying in Fall River, the girls left themselves wide open for criticism-no matter what they did. I wonder what the public would have had to say had Lizzie stayed on Second Street? "Can you imagine the NERVE of that woman- after what she did, parading around that place now she owns it!"- or something like that. Whatever Lizzie did , it was a lose-lose situation for Lizzie in the merciless eyes of the old gossips.

Exactly, that was my point. You're absolutely right they couldn't win no matter what they did. I'm getting all wrapped in this again doing my paper. Having study women's history as a historian I know how little options women had in 1892 and putting aside the murder, I feel sorry for Lizzie. Even if she did it I feel the same. The fear of being left with nothing or very little if Andrew died must have been eating her away. It's awful what women have been driven to do to survive through out history.
What saddens me the most is thinking that that Lizzie spent the rest of life without love, or without some who loved her, is very sad. Personally I think she should have moved to England after the murders and started over. What people seem to forget when discussing this murder and Lizzie is that she was a human being and deserved to have been treated better than she was.


StevenB

I think she had the love of a few close lady friends, and most certainly that of her beloved pets. Being a dog lover myself, I can tell you what comfort and affection pets can bring. No wonder she left so much in her will for their welfare. One of Lizzie's school teachers stated Lizzie never seemed inclined to want to marry or to follow the usual path of feminine fulfillment.

There is a great interchange between Mrs. Knowlton and her husband in the 1975 movie starring Elizabeth Montgomery. Mrs. Knowlton is saying how "heavy" women's skirts could be, implying, of course, the burden of living as a woman in the late nineteenth century with all the accompanying restrictions.

Personally, I have always thought Lizzie to be guilty, or at the least, an accomplice, while at the same time having some sympathy for a frustrating situation in which she, as many upper middle class women found themselves. Unmarried, and not able to actively pursue a career, options were surely limited. Some did rise above it all however, and she might have pursued missionary work, charitable fund-raising and benevolent works, and other such occupations deemed suitable to her station in life. I fear Lizzie was somewhat lazy, and liked nice things, and so zeal for making a difference in the world, ardent effort for a cause and an industrious nature does not, in my opinion describe Lizzie.

[quote=" What people seem to forget when discussing this murder and Lizzie is that she was a human being and deserved to have been treated better than she was.


StevenB[/quote]

StevenB I could not agree with you more!!!!!

Kat @ Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:40 am wrote:The deed changed hands on August 10, 1893. It seems the "premises" were acquired from George French himself, by Mrs. Allen (Atlia, 1889), before being sold to the Borden ladies. They were pretty busy between the deed change and the move-in date.

Just two months after the acquittal? Emma must have been looking well before, or things moved incredibly fast in the days before computers.

StevenB @ Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:17 am wrote:...
Exactly, that was my point. You're absolutely right they couldn't win no matter what they did. I'm getting all wrapped in this again doing my paper. Having study women's history as a historian I know how little options women had in 1892 and putting aside the murder, I feel sorry for Lizzie. Even if she did it I feel the same. The fear of being left with nothing or very little if Andrew died must have been eating her away. It's awful what women have been driven to do to survive through out history.
What saddens me the most is thinking that that Lizzie spent the rest of life without love, or without some who loved her, is very sad. Personally I think she should have moved to England after the murders and started over. What people seem to forget when discussing this murder and Lizzie is that she was a human being and deserved to have been treated better than she was.

StevenB

Yet a number of states in the "Wild West" gave votes to women first. Wyoming was the first circa 1868 (?). Woman suffrage started circa 1830s.
Note that English Common Law had more restrictions on women than the Civil Law used in Latin America, Scotland, and Europe. They couldn't vote there, but equity was fairer (Community Property States).

Personally, I have always thought Lizzie to be guilty, or at the least, an accomplice, while at the same time having some sympathy for a frustrating situation in which she, as many upper middle class women found themselves. Unmarried, and not able to actively pursue a career, options were surely limited. Some did rise above it all however, and she might have pursued missionary work, charitable fund-raising and benevolent works, and other such occupations deemed suitable to her station in life. I fear Lizzie was somewhat lazy, and liked nice things, and so zeal for making a difference in the world, ardent effort for a cause and an industrious nature does not, in my opinion describe Lizzie.

I agree completely!


StevenB