Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Mr. Borden stood, one noonday, outside the church, waiting for the appearance of two ladies, Miss Abby Durfee Gray, a little spinster in her late thirties, and her stepmother. The elder of the two women seeing the tall grave widower, knew that tis was no lightsome occasion, but the beginning of a serious courstship.

I got this passage out of the book "The Trial of Lizzie Borden". I thought it was interesting. I always hear and read how Andrew Borden was such a miserly tight wad, almost void of feeling, that I thought that this gave another sise to him. Maybe he wasn't as hard as everyone thought he was.

Or, he was doing this, not because he actually loved Abby or wanted to get to know her, but a maid and mother for his daughters. That might be more up his alley. Who knows?

It's really hard to tell what is going on inside a person's heart regardless of what we see on the surface. Andrew's courting Abby may have been out of love or it could have been out of convienence, as was so often the case in those days. He got a mother for his children, a caretaker sort of, and she got a place to stay.

It's possible that Andrew was not always an Ebenezer. Given a different setting and difficulties he may have been more out-going, Snokks.

-1bigsteve (o:

I think Arnold Brown's assessment of this is correct. Abby got a rich husband, Andy got a housewife who demanded little beyond room and board. A win-win solution?

Ray, please tell what page(s) is that on in his book ? I'd like to reread that part.





Tracy...

theebmonique @ Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:17 pm wrote:Ray, please tell what page(s) is that on in his book ? I'd like to reread that part.

Tracy...

I would search the Index to look it up in Brown's book.
Thank you for asking and believing me this time.

I am NOT saying I believe you. But, if you can't provide a page number for reference....it sounds like YOU are MAKING IT UP...or maybe there is no reference because you are just trying to throw roadblocks by being CONTRARY ?





Tracy...

theebmonique @ Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:25 pm wrote:I am NOT saying I believe you. But, if you can't provide a page number for reference....it sounds like YOU are MAKING IT UP...or maybe there is no reference because you are just trying to throw roadblocks by being CONTRARY ?

Tracy...

There you go again!!! Please visit the "Stay for tea" area and note the comments on this topic.
I don't keep a pile of books on my desk, I just go from memory.
Isn't this what most other here do? If they have read that book?

NOTE that no one else has agreed with your comments, and consider what that means; if anything.

These comments serve as an exemplar for that STT topic.

I think too it might have been a win-win situation. He got a caretaker for the children and she got the rich husband.

Ray...you are doing the avoidance because you don't know the answer thing again. I was simply asking a question about something YOU posted in THIS category. If you can't answer my question...you can't. Silly me for assuming you would be willing to back up your claim with with proof. My bad.





Tracy...

Now Ray...if you do know the page number I am requesting from you about the information you posted, please tell me...I am willing to wait and to listen.





Tracy...

theebmonique @ Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:00 pm wrote:Ray...you are doing the avoidance because you don't know the answer thing again. I was simply asking a question about something YOU posted in THIS category. If you can't answer my question...you can't. Silly me for assuming you would be willing to back up your claim with with proof. My bad.

Tracy...

So you are saying you accept Brown's book as PROOF? Anything in it?

I believe any statement in any book must be compared to what others have said and the facts as you know them.

I wonder why you can't search the Index, and insist that I do it? Would you believe me? Why not ask the others that you trust, if there are any?

Ray, I honestly just wanted you to tell me where/what pages you got your info from. If you won't back up your claim, I can't force you. It just seems to add more unbelievability to your story, that's all. If that's what you prefer, so be it.





Tracy...

theebmonique @ Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:41 pm wrote:Ray, I honestly just wanted you to tell me where/what pages you got your info from. If you won't back up your claim, I can't force you. It just seems to add more unbelievability to your story, that's all. If that's what you prefer, so be it.

Tracy...

I regard your question as a provocation, its like saying I must do what you ask or else ... you won't believe Brown's theory. Like that is true?
I didn't answer as I didn't have the book at my fingertips.
Looking at the Index, just look up the pages under "Borden, Abby ".

Hint: its on page XXXXVI (in Roman Numerals) hardcover version.

If you or your missing friend can read French, its on quarante-six.

Ray, you know there was no provocation intended. I clearly stated it was an honest question, but you still seem to delight in trying to keep things stirred up. Giving the answer in Roman numerals and French do very much seem like you are openly taunting. A simple "page 46" would have sufficed.

There are questions I would like to ask about Brown's/your theory, but am finding it increasingly difficult to do so as you always seem to make the questioner take the scenic route to get even the simplest, 'clear' response from you.





Tracy...

theebmonique @ Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:57 pm wrote:Ray, you know there was no provocation intended. I clearly stated it was an honest question, but you still seem to delight in trying to keep things stirred up. Giving the answer in Roman numerals and French do very much seem like you are openly taunting. A simple "page 46" would have sufficed.

There are questions I would like to ask about Brown's/your theory, but am finding it increasingly difficult to do so as you always seem to make the questioner take the scenic route to get even the simplest, 'clear' response from you.

Tracy...

Ok, I accept your statement that "no provocation intended"; but that's not how I read your question in context.
The fact is that I really don't care or believe that anyone will decide to read Brown's book, or accept its solution, based on a chance question on a page number. It doesn't seem probable to me.

When people ask me a rhetorical question (was Willy Andy's nephew or son?) I sort of react to the implicit tone therein. Its not like your past comments would lead me elsewhere, is it? Which you are free to do.

If the question seems honest, I will give an honest answer. "I don't know" is also an answer.

After you have read Brown's book please rate it.

theebmonique @ Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:17 pm wrote:Ray, please tell what page(s) is that on in his book ? I'd like to reread that part.





Tracy...

Tracy asked that question, because you stated you thought Brown's assessment of Andrew and Abby's relationship was correct. She asked for a page number in the book you have been demanding everyone here to believe is the answer to this mystery. So, why can't you provide a quote from the book or a footnote at least?

Now, don't say "you can look it up". This is your theory that you have the burden of proving since you started all the threads about it. Give us something other than your word, you must know to present an argument, one must have proper references? No, I am not part of any conspiracy against you, but what exactly is your intent? Since you are copywriting your theory, shouldn't there be some substance to it?

snokkums @ Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:13 am wrote: Mr. Borden stood, one noonday, outside the church, waiting for the appearance of two ladies, Miss Abby Durfee Gray, a little spinster in her late thirties, and her stepmother. The elder of the two women seeing the tall grave widower, knew that tis was no lightsome occasion, but the beginning of a serious courstship.

I got this passage out of the book "The Trial of Lizzie Borden". I thought it was interesting. I always hear and read how Andrew Borden was such a miserly tight wad, almost void of feeling, that I thought that this gave another sise to him. Maybe he wasn't as hard as everyone thought he was.

Or, he was doing this, not because he actually loved Abby or wanted to get to know her, but a maid and mother for his daughters. That might be more up his alley. Who knows?

He got all three by marrying Abby. She was about 30 years younger then, and quite a bit thinner. Or so I believe. Any pictures of Abby circa 1865?
I wonder about the reason Andy never tried for a son???

Smudgeman @ Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:17 pm wrote:...

Tracy asked that question, because you stated you thought Brown's assessment of Andrew and Abby's relationship was correct. She asked for a page number in the book you have been demanding everyone here to believe is the answer to this mystery. So, why can't you provide a quote from the book or a footnote at least?

Now, don't say "you can look it up". This is your theory that you have the burden of proving since you started all the threads about it. Give us something other than your word, you must know to present an argument, one must have proper references? No, I am not part of any conspiracy against you, but what exactly is your intent? Since you are copywriting your theory, shouldn't there be some substance to it?

A theory is a way to explain what happened when you were not an eyewitness to the events. The theory of Darwinian Evolution, the Garden of Eden, the Great Flood, etc.

My addition or revision to Brown's theory provides a better solution than a story about someone not being in a non-existent will. Please tell me why you don't believe it. Just being against it is not enough.
My copyright is to protect my posting against anyone who would quote and distort it. ANYONE is free to adopt it and write another book. Heck, if they don't quote me or even this site what could I do about it?
(But reviewers could rip an author for doing this.)