Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I read in the archives that Bridget had said several times that she wanted to quit, but Abby told her she didn't want her to go. Bridget was an immigrant and a maid, and, in those days, one didn't quit a job at every whim like people do today. If one quit or was fired, there was the chance that the employer would not give a letter of reference. A letter of reference was crucial in securing a new positon. Without it, she could very easily been out on the street. It seems it would take a lot for Bridget to want to go away from a job that seemed to be pretty decent. The house was small- she could not help but see and hear what kind of relationship the Borden family had. If it was tense or disturbing it would have been difficult to not only work there, but have to live in the middle of it at all times. Andrew, according to what has been written about him, was not Cary Grant. And someone hated him enough to kill him. There had to be a reason people in the town said they weren't surprised he had been offed, so he couldn't have been easy to live with. Abby may have appreciated Bridget for being there because she was not directly involved in whatever dysfunction had been going on for years. But being a buffer could have put a big burden on Bridget's psyche. Lizzie and Emma were obviously at odds, to say the least, with one, if not both parents. They may have tried to triangulate Bridget against the parents, or at least complain to her about the situation. Lizzie was not Miss Congeniality of Fall River, so god only knows what it was like to have her around all the time. So, with constant tension, little social life, begrudging sisters running around, locked doors, back stairs, front stairs, divided mealtimes, etc. etc., etc., it was little wonder that Bridget wanted to leave. Then, when something terrible finally did occur, it may have been something Bridget wasn't entirely surprised about, although she may not have expected such a huge disaster. If I were Bridget, I would have said anything and everything to help Lizzie just to get the H out of there in one piece, and then run for my life. Maybe she did do whatever Lizzie asked to cover something up, and then, when she was safely away in Montana years later, felt guilty about abetting in any way, however slight, just to save her own neck. I know I would have suffered from post traumatic stress disorder for the rest of my life.

It sure would have been interesting to know what it was she was going to tell her friend, there's just no way of knowing, alot of time had passed, she'd lived alot of years and had traveled alot of miles. so there isn't even any way of knowing if what she was gonna say had anything to do with the murders. It's just amazing that so many people who had inside information actually kept their mouths shut, not only them but the generations that followed, who might have heard things from mothers, father, grandparents etc.

I think with the Bordens getting killed she had a perfect reason not to stay working for Lizzie and Emma. I don't think she was very fond of anyone in the house except for Mrs Borden.

In the above post about Bridget you say:
"There had to be a reason people in the town said they weren't surprised he had been offed, so he couldn't have been easy to live with."
This comes from the archive? Did the person give their source and can you give the link, thanks?

shakiboo @ Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:02 pm wrote:It sure would have been interesting to know what it was she was going to tell her friend, there's just no way of knowing, alot of time had passed, she'd lived alot of years and had traveled alot of miles. so there isn't even any way of knowing if what she was gonna say had anything to do with the murders. It's just amazing that so many people who had inside information actually kept their mouths shut, not only them but the generations that followed, who might have heard things from mothers, father, grandparents etc.

Since this story came years after Bridget's death, can we be 1000% sure it was not a self-serving statement?
Didn't Radin also speak about Bridget's children? Do we know more about this?

Kat @ Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:02 am wrote:In the above post about Bridget you say:
"There had to be a reason people in the town said they weren't surprised he had been offed, so he couldn't have been easy to live with."
This comes from the archive? Did the person give their source and can you give the link, thanks?

This is mentioned in Brown's book, and I believe Pearson's "Trial of LB".
Also from Kent's book. I can't cite the page numbers at this time, but a search of the index ("Brayton") may suffice.
Think of all those people who lost their home to Andy?

Kat @ Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:02 am wrote:In the above post about Bridget you say:
"There had to be a reason people in the town said they weren't surprised he had been offed, so he couldn't have been easy to live with."
This comes from the archive? Did the person give their source and can you give the link, thanks?

I have read in several books about this. Phillip's writings is one. Those that have read the books have seen this. I am not going to go thru each and every one to find the rest unless you feel it is that important, but I don't think this is earth shattering news.

Besides, the main point I was trying to make was that Bridget might have been living under duress, but felt she couldn't do much to change her situation without serious repercussions in her financial and living conditions. She probably felt pretty powerless in her station in life, and then the murder happened and she had to worry about her job, her reputation, her possible implication, and, possibly her life because she knew too much about the family dynamics. I can see why she felt quite hysterical at times, and possibly guilt ridden because she didn't know how much she could reveal without hurting her own future in some way.

Didn't Bridget also use an agency to aid her in getting a job? She also had relatives she could fall back on to help aid her in obtaining employment.

The Witness Statements page 21 from Harringtons notes on taken on October 1 1892:

Bridget Sullivan." Yes, I left New Bedford for good. I did not like the way the papers spoke of me, said I was in New Bedford jail. And I go a postal card from the Court, requesting me to call for my witness fees, and that was addressed to New Bedford jail. I did not like this, so I thought I would show them I would not stay any longer. I think I will try to get a place here, through Mrs. McKenney's agency, if not, I may go to Newport R.I. and work in the hotel where I was employed before, I have relatives in So. Bethlehem, and as I worked there before I may go again."

I think maybe she didn't like the papers making it out that she was being held in the jail as a prisoner instead of a witness? This is also something I found interesting. It seems as though Bridget didn't like to have idle hands. In my opinion it seems she was the type who liked to keep busy to occupy her time because further in this same statement she says this:

"I had nothing to do but look at the walls of the prison, and I found seven gray hairs in my head. I would rather have a place where I would have something to do."

I had forgotten she had relatives to fall back on. She was luckier than some.

I remember reading that Bridget was employed in the Sheriff's office as paid help. This was a big help to anyone who could be held as a material witness. Some wonder if this was to get her to talk about what she knew.

I believe that Bridget knew nothing that could help the prosecutors. BUT she did know a lot about the family's circumstances.

There is no necessary correlation between how Andrew treated his tenants and how he treated his family (see the Gotti family for the other side of the story) .

Bob Gutowski @ Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:51 pm wrote:There is no necessary correlation between how Andrew treated his tenants and how he treated his family (see the Gotti family for the other side of the story) .

You're right- he was probably Robert Young.

(Actually, I saw a clip of Gotti in jail talking to his grandson and it was not pretty.)

OK thanks. *Phillips* is a start.

Here is a paragraph about Andrew by Lizzie's defense helper:

"Ordinarily Mr. Borden was a very mild-mannered and mild-speaking man, yet his conduct in business matters had made him many enemies. Called the sharpest man in town, he provoked many current rumors as to his methods which were far from complimentary. It was said that an employee who had improperly sequestered a few dollars had avoided prosecution for crime by threatening specific disclosures of Mr. Borden’s business methods. Another story related to the undertaking firm of which Mr. Borden was a member and to the manner of fitting corpses to the caskets on hand, another to the method of charging funeral equipment to an amount in excess of that furnished. Mr. Borden kept in close touch with his tenants and their business. Tenants of experience who were cautious about their rental charges were careful to impress him with hard luck stories because he was ever solicitous about sharing their profits in the form of increased rent. When the death of Mr. Borden was first announced on the street, general comment was that 'someone had done a good job.' ”

--I guess this is similar to your intent.

Kat @ Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:26 am wrote:OK thanks. *Phillips* is a start.

Here is a paragraph about Andrew by Lizzie's defense helper:

"Ordinarily Mr. Borden was a very mild-mannered and mild-speaking man, yet his conduct in business matters had made him many enemies. Called the sharpest man in town, he provoked many current rumors as to his methods which were far from complimentary. It was said that an employee who had improperly sequestered a few dollars had avoided prosecution for crime by threatening specific disclosures of Mr. Borden’s business methods. Another story related to the undertaking firm of which Mr. Borden was a member and to the manner of fitting corpses to the caskets on hand, another to the method of charging funeral equipment to an amount in excess of that furnished. Mr. Borden kept in close touch with his tenants and their business. Tenants of experience who were cautious about their rental charges were careful to impress him with hard luck stories because he was ever solicitous about sharing their profits in the form of increased rent. When the death of Mr. Borden was first announced on the street, general comment was that 'someone had done a good job.' ”

--I guess this is similar to your intent.

It still goes on. That's why big businesses will always buy or build their own store.
When I worked in NY city (1960s-1970s) I once heard the local deli talking to a friend. He said he made his business successful, and now he was being charged more rent!!!
Is that why some people move after getting a raise in wages?