Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I just recently got a hold of the Knowlton Papers ( or at least that's what I hope they are). Right now I'm just sort of flipping through this and looking at a few things. I did come across something that struck my interest. In a letter from Alice Russell dated June 2, 1893, HK212, Alice writes about the night of Aug. 3rd and her conversation with Lizzie. Lizzie was talking about Andrew being upset with Abby going over to see Dr. Bowen. She then writes this:

After he had gone Mrs. Borden scolded. She said I am ashamed for you to use Dr. Bowen so. Mr Borden said, "well I don't want him coming over here Dr. Handy Style." Mrs. B. said he didn't come over here Dr.Handy style. I told him you were sick and he came over to see you and I think it is a shame you can't treat him decent. He is all the neighbors we have got and I think it is too bad.

What did Abby mean by "Dr. Handy style"? Did he barge in their home a great deal?

Yes, it sounds like you have the Knowlton papers. Congrats!

One newspaper described Dr. Handy as a friend of the Bordens. It was to his cottage at Marion that Lizzie was to go to on her fishing trip. Dr. Handy's daughter was one of the "girls" on that trip.

Perhaps Dr. Handy, hearing of someone sick at the house, made an occasional house call, and charged, without being asked. That seems to be what Andrew was accusing Dr. Bowen of that morning.

That's great that you got a copy of the Knowlton Papers. It seems like that thick old book doesn't come around too often, and usually for a pretty price. But every once in a while you can pick up a great deal !





Tracy...

Hmmm. That interpretation was not one I had thought of before, Har.
Dropping over and then charging? I wouldn't like that either.

I've just thought of him dropping over. But I wonder why he would? Maybe Dr. Handy was a gossip and liked to waste time jawing?

Whatever it meant, or how Abby intented to use it, it seems she meant it in a bad light. You know, the noisy neighbor the gossip, or someone who barges in uninivited.

theebmonique @ Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:06 pm wrote:That's great that you got a copy of the Knowlton Papers. It seems like that thick old book doesn't come around too often, and usually for a pretty price. But every once in a while you can pick up a great deal !





Tracy...

Let me make it clear that I did not buy a copy of the Knowlton papers. I simply went to my local library and did an interlibrary loan and for free I got a copy of the Knowlton Papers. I will have it for the next three weeks. Now I do have to return it but it does give me time to go through it and copy anything I might need. And of course I can order them again.

Back to Dr. Handy. I wonder what would make him want to make unannounced visits to the Borden home? I don't think either Andrew or Abby were sick or had any health problems that needed watch over. Could he have been worried about Lizzie? I wonder if he have her any medications?

There isn't a lot to go on in the quote. What isn't "Dr. Handy style" is when Abby tells Dr. Bowen that Andrew is sick and Dr. Bowen pays a visit. This is apparently sufficient to make it something other than that. Of course, we have Alice said...Lizzie said...Abby said... but I can't think of why Alice wouldn't be giving sufficient information to make the point, or Lizzie either at that stage. Maybe Dr. Handy just dropped in when he was in the neighborhood and tried to turn a social call into a professional visit.

Yooper @ Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:49 am wrote:There isn't a lot to go on in the quote. What isn't "Dr. Handy style" is when Abby tells Dr. Bowen that Andrew is sick and Dr. Bowen pays a visit. This is apparently sufficient to make it something other than that. Of course, we have Alice said...Lizzie said...Abby said... but I can't think of why Alice wouldn't be giving sufficient information to make the point, or Lizzie either at that stage. Maybe Dr. Handy just dropped in when he was in the neighborhood and tried to turn a social call into a professional visit.

It seems to be that Dr. Handy would drop by uninvited. As if he were a family friend. Was he? The usual pattern in those days?

Telling Dr. Bowen that Andy is sick is an implied invitation to see Andy, even if not so expressed.

RayS @ Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:10 pm wrote:

Yooper @ Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:49 am wrote:There isn't a lot to go on in the quote. What isn't "Dr. Handy style" is when Abby tells Dr. Bowen that Andrew is sick and Dr. Bowen pays a visit. This is apparently sufficient to make it something other than that. Of course, we have Alice said...Lizzie said...Abby said... but I can't think of why Alice wouldn't be giving sufficient information to make the point, or Lizzie either at that stage. Maybe Dr. Handy just dropped in when he was in the neighborhood and tried to turn a social call into a professional visit.

It seems to be that Dr. Handy would drop by uninvited. As if he were a family friend. Was he? The usual pattern in those days?

Telling Dr. Bowen that Andy is sick is an implied invitation to see Andy, even if not so expressed.

Yes, that's the only way juggling the negation in the "isn't" statement makes any sense. Since doctor's absence is desirable, we can't negate visit to not visit. We're left with Abby tells...is sick, Abby tells...is not sick, Abby does not tell...moot point. Abby tells...is sick is the definition of "isn't", we can reject it out of hand. Abby tells...is not sick makes no sense, why would the doctor call on a healthy patient? We're left with Abby does not tell as the only viable negation, so Dr. Handy makes uninvited house calls.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this. Could you rephrase it? Thanks!

The object is to define "Dr. Handy style" in reference to a doctor's house call, and while the quote doesn't do this directly, it supposedly provides a viable example of what isn't "Dr. Handy style" according to Abby, through Lizzie, through Alice. To arrive at what is from what isn't, something in what isn't has to change, it has to be negated. Something about "I told him you were sick and he came over to see you", which isn't "Dr. Handy style", must be altered to arrive at what is "Dr. Handy style".

The only possibilities for alteration are the phrases; "I (Abby) told", "you were sick", and "came over". From the phrase "I don't want him coming over here Dr. Handy style" the problem is clearly the doctor's presence rather than his absence. The entire impetus for the exchange was not Dr. Bowen's staying away, it was his visit. So, "came over" must remain intact.

We're left with three possibilities for truth, "I told...you were sick", "I told...you weren't sick", "I didn't tell". If we negate "I told" to "I didn't tell", it clearly makes no difference what she didn't tell if she didn't tell it. Since "I told... you were sick" is the definition of what isn't "Dr. Handy style" and we want to arrive at what is "Dr. Handy style", we can reject it. If "I told...you weren't sick" is true, and the doctor pays a visit anyway, it is still an uninvited house call. I'm prepared to cut Dr. Handy a little slack on this possibility, to disregard what he is specifically told does not seem likely. If he makes a habit of that, he's a candidate for the Darwin Award, which is issued posthumously for having supported the premise of "anything that stupid probably won't live long." I doubt that Dr. Handy would go to the time and effort to make a house call on a person he has been specifically told does not need him.

What remains is "I didn't tell", which indicates Dr. Handy's uninvited presence. So, it all boils down to "Dr. Handy style" being an uninvited house call.

Yooper @ Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:11 pm wrote:

RayS @ Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:10 pm wrote:...
It seems to be that Dr. Handy would drop by uninvited. As if he were a family friend. Was he? The usual pattern in those days?

Telling Dr. Bowen that Andy is sick is an implied invitation to see Andy, even if not so expressed.

Yes, that's the only way juggling the negation in the "isn't" statement makes any sense. Since doctor's absence is desirable, we can't negate visit to not visit. We're left with Abby tells...is sick, Abby tells...is not sick, Abby does not tell...moot point. Abby tells...is sick is the definition of "isn't", we can reject it out of hand. Abby tells...is not sick makes no sense, why would the doctor call on a healthy patient? We're left with Abby does not tell as the only viable negation, so Dr. Handy makes uninvited house calls.

MY interpretation of Abby telling a Dr that Andy "is" or "is not" sick relates to their status. A food poisoning might not affect anyone else. A germ sickness would likely affect others.

EX: I'm sick, but not my spouse; or, I'm sick but my spouse can't visit.

Are we making too much of this unimportant event? Does it relate at all to the murders?

Yes, we've probably covered it by now! It may be a point of curiosity with respect to Andrew's dismissal of Dr. Bowen on the 3rd. We never know what might be important in this case, though.

Yooper @ Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:10 pm wrote:Yes, we've probably covered it by now! It may be a point of curiosity with respect to Andrew's dismissal of Dr. Bowen on the 3rd. We never know what might be important in this case, though.

The events surrounding the murders are important. Events from years earlier less so. Afterwards, the problem is separating legend from fact.

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