Lizzie Borden Society Forum

If andrew was killed first, do you think abby heard andrew being killed?
By the way her body was found. does it look like she was expecting someone to come in the room?

And the original crime scean Photographs that are now in the home. How did the owner get them and where were they kept all these years before the owner had them?

and my last question for the day, do you think andrew and abby are at peace? I have heard the house is haunted, so does this mean, since there killer was never caught they can't be at peace?

OH! THE HORROR OF IT ALL.

It is very unlikely that Andrew was murdered before his wife. As incompetent some of us think the police or Doctors were, it would be a mistake for us to label them all witless.


Though we are sure about Abby's duties in the guest chamber that day, what she was doing at the exact moment the ax came down upon her head can only be guessed to.

It is highly likely that Abby DID SEE THE KILLER and most likely was FACING her assailant. For all we know the killer could have chased her into the corner by the side of the bed where her body was discovered before or after the first blow. The first encounter could have been in the hallway? What we do know is that she took a chop to the front of the skull, well above the eye and ear. From this we can conclude, if you like, that she was facing her killer and that that could have been the first blow.

I dare say, it could have happened at the foot of the bed or even just inside the bedroom door, and the job finished on the north side of the bed. Or it could have been while she was hunched over on that side of the bed tending to her domestic duties and just happen to turn to look up for what ever reason, when the ax came down.

All speculation. No one really knows. But the chance that she was facing her killer is good, if not certain. But that being said, between the time she seen the killer's ax and the time it actually hit her was very small, so small that she did not have time to raise her hands in defense, if in fact she did see the ax and killer. If something was coming down upon a persons head the most natural thing to do would be to throw up your arms. Again, perhaps she did not see her killer but turned her head just at the split second the ax was being delivered.

Again, all specutation, open to interpertation and conjecture.

Hi Affie4u, weclome to the forum. As for the first question if Andy was killed first, would Abby heard?

I think so. With the way the house was constructed, it could have a possiblity.
I think she did see her killer.
I think they are at peace. Probably just having a little bit of fun with peoples imagination.

If Andrew was killed first I think Abby came down stairs to see what was
happening. The killer saw Abby and chased her up to the guest room and finished the job since she witnessed the crime.

But like most people I believe Abby was murdered first mainly because
I think Lizzie did it and she knew Abby had to die first in order to inherit
her fathers estate. Also, her blood was dark and coagulated compared to
Andrew's whos' wounds were fresh

Jeff @ Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:55 am wrote:If Andrew was killed first I think Abby came down stairs to see what was
happening. The killer saw Abby and chased her up to the guest room and finished the job since she witnessed the crime.

But like most people I believe Abby was murdered first mainly because
I think Lizzie did it and she knew Abby had to die first in order to inherit
her fathers estate. Also, her blood was dark and coagulated compared to
Andrew's whos' wounds were fresh

It is also believed that Abby was killed first because neither Lizzie nor Bridget saw or heard Abby after about 9:00AM. It is highly unlikely that Abby would stay in that guest room for two+ hours unless she was dead.

-1bigsteve (o:

There is a theory that Abby was gone (therefore not seen in the house after 9) and returned and was chased up those stairs and killed.
Some think the bringer of the note chased her up there to retrieve it.

Anyway, the *no one* who did not see Abbie after 9 am happen to be our suspects, Lizzie and Bridget.

Jeff @ Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:55 am wrote:If Andrew was killed first I think Abby came down stairs to see what was
happening. The killer saw Abby and chased her up to the guest room and finished the job since she witnessed the crime.

But like most people I believe Abby was murdered first mainly because
I think Lizzie did it and she knew Abby had to die first in order to inherit
her fathers estate. Also, her blood was dark and coagulated compared to
Andrew's whos' wounds were fresh

I think that she was killed first too. Lizzie wanted to inherit all the loot. She wasn't about to let abby and her family get it. She didn't want abby to have any of while she was alive.

I never agreed with the thought that someone actually did have to hear Abby's body falling to the floor. Unless someone was in the room directly below the guest room, which would be the parlor. With all the noise from the street, and horse carriages and such, I don't really know if someone would have heard, and the same goes for Andrew if he were the one to be killed first. I think it would depend on timing and what room of the house you were in.
Second question, you can buy the crime scene photographs from the Fall River Historical Society, along with other related pictures of people involved with the case and different locations related to Lizzie. Right now they are working on a book, so the photos aren't available for sale, but once they're finished they will offer them for sale again, or at least that's what they're telling me. I need to finish my collection, I have bought quite a few from them.
I have had supernatural things happen to me in the house, so to be honest, I don't know if they're at peace or not, but I would like to think they are, especially Abby who to me decidedly had the rougher life and I think death than Andrew.
Pammie

Thanks Pammie!
Somewhere here recently, Shelley specified exactly which rooms could hear Abbie's body fall, and which could not. I recall the Sitting room was one that could not- and the kitchen too? They tested it.
I'd say you are on the right track about the parlour!

The crime scene photos have not been available to buy for quite some time now- maybe more than 2 years, I think?
If they will once again be available, then "I am going to have one!"

wow, that is very interesting that you can get a copy of the crime scean photos in the future.

Does anybody know how many owners (about) have lived in the Bordon house since Lizzie sold the house? Also, are the famous pear trees that lizzie would eat from still at the house after all these years?

Thank you for the welcome snokkums!

I had posted some of the names of people who have lived in the House thru time.
I'm not sure how to find the info tho.
I wrote about a history of the place in The Hatchet, June/July 2005.